GPS question (would love Ollie W's opinion)

[sthig]

I have been putting my gear list together and am trying to streamline things.  It had been recommended to me that I get an eTrex gps because of the removable batteries.  I think that's great but it comes down to budget (and my finances are slim at the moment).  I do own a Edge 800 and have assembled a minty boost charger but it's not working 100% as of yet.

That said, on the TourDivide I noted that Ollie had an Edge 800.  Ollie, how did you keep that thing charged (it's a battery sucker for sure) or can someone recommend battery management and the best gps to take on the TD?

[Area54]

You could couple it to a dyno hub, e-werk and float battery (not a cheap setup, but great if you combine it with lights/charging as well). Powermonkey/Garmin do that neat solar panel and float battery too - YMMV with solar though...

[the tortoise]

Uses 4 AA batteries and can run a GPS, cell phone, MP3 player, etc. with a USB charger. I bought one and it works well. Charge the GPS whenever you can traditionally, or use this when you can't
http://www.amazon.com/Burro-Mobile-Charger-AA-Powered-Building/dp/B0078E2MZW

[ScottM]

An eTrex 20 is only ~$160.

To me, the piece of mind that you can always drop in 2AA and be back running is worth more than that.  Some people have good luck with chargers, but I know others that have issues, and it's one more thing to lose and fiddle with.

My 2c.

[Pizzaz]

Warning... counter eTrex opinion.

I used an Edge 800 at the NZ Southern Brevet earlier this year - 6 days and only one night in a motel.  I love the Edge - the memory capacity is to all intents and purposes unlimited and the FIT file format means you'll be able to keep logs of an entire TDR worth of data for downloading when you get back (self confessed data weenie speaking...).

Downside is that pesky battery life - the claim is 15 hours but when you have it displaying a real time map then somewhere around 12 is more realistic... less if you have any backlighting on.

My solution was to run a dynamo hub (I use a http://supernova-lights.com/en/products/infinity_s.html) with a USB charger in the headset (details at http://www.wannaberacer.info/2012/07/do-you-have-power.html sorry for the lack of pics)- using this I kept an iPhone 4 and Edge 800 happy for the ride (ok... except for one long day where I stupidly kept the iphone on charge rather than the GPS and then had a long night ride.  Idiot).

The dynamo requires that you go over about 14km/h to charge / run your lights and you can't run lights and charge at the same time (duh).  I now have an exposure Diablo as a helmet backup light as well which also USB charges.

The dynamo costs you about 5W at 30 km/h.

[stappy]

I can't speak for Mr. Whalley. I did raise an eyebrow when I realized he was running both a rechargeable gps and light-set while riding at a winning pace. Typical engineer, I say with the utmost affection, unwilling to sacrifice superior hardware at a cost of convenience. We, Ollie and I stayed indoors one third of our nights, giving him time to charge. He had to always be conscious of when he could charge up. Ingeniously finding plugs and charging his devices while we were eating or shopping. He ran with his gps turned off for long stretches as well. I like my disposable battery setup. I used only gps for navigation, it was on for 100% of the ride. The etrex is great on batteries. My lights also run on AA's. I had two lights, so to an extent they're redundant, I could always cannibalize batteries from one of my lights. My strategy was to maintain between 4-8 spare lithium AA's as a reserve. That way I never had to budget battery life. Lithium batteries are pretty light. Ollie always made it work but on a similar note, running out of charge with his lights on the separ road cost him a sub 16 time.

[sthig]

thank you for this.  I am not an engineer, and would struggle. so an etrex may be in the works...

[keeb]

Love my etrex 30.  I used it on the TNGA and more recently on the AML400.  I left it on 24/7 and with good lithium batteries, got over 24hrs worth of runtime.  I'm sure if you left if off for long stretches, you could easily get 2 or 3 days of runtime on a pair of AA's  Rain and dirt were non issues.  I also used it as my alarm clock, which I find is a very useful feature when you are conserving phone battery.  I consider my etrex and my porcelain rocket bar bag indispensable gear.  Everything else is subject to change.   

On an extended adventure, I'd want something simple and reliable instead of something I needed to babysit at every stop to recharge.  Personally, I know I'd forget to charge up at some point, and end up in the middle of the night/nowhere with dead electronics.  Not sure that it matters, but I am an engineer, and I prefer simplicity and reliability.  Remember, K.I.S.S.

[Mike K.]

Good luck to everyone in 2013!

In 2012 my navigation/resupply/light/power strategy worked well for me and I'd do almost the same thing again:

- printed summary spreadsheet of water/supply/lodging options with distances
- printed detailed narrative edited down and tabularized
- AT&T iPhone 4 with Lifeproof case and the SIM lock feature enabled
- 2012 GPX file from Scott
- MotionX GPS iPhone app with predownloaded detailed topographic and road files
- backup of the two printed spreadsheets on the iPhone as Goodreader documents
- iPhone USB adapter/charger (the small adapter with the short cable)
- USB iPhone AA battery charger
- AA battery flashlight that fit my helmet

After testing lots of setups, I went this route because there was some navigation redundancy, it was rugged and easy to operate and power, and I was going to take the phone/charger anyway so why not fully use it.

Turned on the SIM only the few times I wanted to make a call or get SMS/email.  Satellite strength was great
throughout and kept me right on route. The only exception was at the very top of Richmond Peak where I got pretty turned around. I cut a foam pad to fit the iPhone case and lashed it tightly to the stem. I charged up where I bought supplies, ate at restaurants, or slept at hotels. I followed the narrative and was frugal about turning on the screen to save power and, frankly, followed tire tracks quite a bit.  Charging from AA batteries was my "reserve power" and did save me several times. The single AA flashlight was enough to get me down Fleecer Ridge to the paved road at Wise River in the pitch dark, but it really was not ideal for backcountry night riding.

The only thing I would do differently is use waterproof paper for the printed spreadsheets.

The downsides I experienced were:

- the batteries were expensive and, since I wasn't sure when i'd be able to get lithiums, I ended up carrying quite a few
- the time to lash and unlash the phone for charging inside a store/restaurant (or to take pictures)

[OllieW]

Loved my Egde 800. As Craig notes, the rechargable batteries were risky but I had an 8000mah USB battery that could provide top ups for lights etc. The Minty boost meant I could run anything of AAs too, another backup which I used a couple of times. These were about 300g all up and for all the weight and hassle I'm going to be testing the new Exposure Revo setup, with an 800 lumen light and the ability to charge other devices, I reckon it'll be a winner.
On the Edge, another feature which I found awesome for motivation was the elevation profile, which thanks to the trackleader's course wizards gave you an accurate and scalable picture of the profile ahead. Nice to be able to look down and see you had x climbs left between you and your goal, much better than a dark road or trying to interpret contours from a map. As far as I'm aware no other GPSs have this feature.
I had issues with the buttons on my Edge getting full of crud, and they'd often get stuck down rendering it inoperable. Nothing a swish in a stream wouldn't fix, but a bit annyoing.
I loved having a proper 900 lumen light setup in my Exposure Diablo, it gave me the ability to ride the steep descents at pace. I'd find riding with woosy AA light setups like Craig's shit scary, especially when you are falling asleep!

[stappy]

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend any engineers out there. Just meant to highlight how detailed and specific Ollie is with his gear. Also that I appreciated that his gps and lights out-preformed mine, in terms of functionality, while they were in use.
I remember a few night time descents, "white knuckling it", far exceeding my lights, trying to stay close enough to Ollie to take advantage of his 900 lumens.

[keeb]

On the Edge, another feature which I found awesome for motivation was the elevation profile, which thanks to the trackleader's course wizards gave you an accurate and scalable picture of the profile ahead. Nice to be able to look down and see you had x climbs left between you and your goal, much better than a dark road or trying to interpret contours from a map. As far as I'm aware no other GPSs have this feature.

Not to take away anything from the Edge, but I do know the etrex 30 has this feature.  I agree with Ollie, this is definitely a nice thing to be able to know what you are in for.

[ryansigsbey]

Scott, I used my eTrex 20 on the TNGA and had only used one set of AA Lithium batteries for the whole trip (3 long days!), plus still had a few hours left in it after the race.  I turned it off at night when sleeping but other than that it was running.  It seems really easy to use and I remember riding with a few people who were getting confused at the units.  I want to say they had an Edge of some sorts but not really sure. 

Keeb, I'd be really interested how to see an elevation profile.  Any tips?

Thanks!

[the tortoise]

I discovered a site where you can download topo basemaps for no charge. So far I have loaded CA, AZ and CO. Shows up on my Garmin 60csx perfectly! You need Garmin Basecamp to manage and use the MapInstall to make things happen. Read the instructions on the map website. I tried loading into directly to my Garmin but it didn't work. Loaded onto a Micro SD card from my computer with a microSD card adapter, then I put the micro SD card in my Gamin and it worked!
Here is a link to the site. Free but they do ask for contributions. http://www.gpsfiledepot.com/index.php

[keeb]

@ryansigsbey
According to the owners manual, it looks like the elevation plot is only available on the etrex30.

[H. Walters]

Good luck to everyone in 2013!

In 2012 my navigation/resupply/light/power strategy worked well for me and I'd do almost the same thing again:

- printed summary spreadsheet of water/supply/lodging options with distances
- printed detailed narrative edited down and tabularized
- AT&T iPhone 4 with Lifeproof case and the SIM lock feature enabled
- 2012 GPX file from Scott
- MotionX GPS iPhone app with predownloaded detailed topographic and road files
- backup of the two printed spreadsheets on the iPhone as Goodreader documents
- iPhone USB adapter/charger (the small adapter with the short cable)
- USB iPhone AA battery charger
- AA battery led flashlight that fit my helmet

After testing lots of setups, I went this route because there was some navigation redundancy, it was rugged and easy to operate and power, and I was going to take the phone/charger anyway so why not fully use it.

Turned on the SIM only the few times I wanted to make a call or get SMS/email.  Satellite strength was great
throughout and kept me right on route. The only exception was at the very top of Richmond Peak where I got pretty turned around. I cut a foam pad to fit the iPhone case and lashed it tightly to the stem. I charged up where I bought supplies, ate at restaurants, or slept at hotels. I followed the narrative and was frugal about turning on the screen to save power and, frankly, followed tire tracks quite a bit.  Charging from AA batteries was my "reserve power" and did save me several times. The single AA flashlight was enough to get me down Fleecer Ridge to the paved road at Wise River in the pitch dark, but it really was not ideal for backcountry night riding.

The only thing I would do differently is use waterproof paper for the printed spreadsheets.

The downsides I experienced were:

- the batteries were expensive and, since I wasn't sure when i'd be able to get lithiums, I ended up carrying quite a few
- the time to lash and unlash the phone for charging inside a store/restaurant (or to take pictures)

By reading it and according to your description this will be a good investment. Carry on and using the waterproof things are quite good decision..

[jryter]

Loved my Egde 800. As Craig notes, the rechargable batteries were risky but I had an 8000mah USB battery that could provide top ups for lights etc. The Minty boost meant I could run anything of AAs too, another backup which I used a couple of times. These were about 300g all up and for all the weight and hassle I'm going to be testing the new Exposure Revo setup, with an 800 lumen light and the ability to charge other devices, I reckon it'll be a winner.
On the Edge, another feature which I found awesome for motivation was the elevation profile, which thanks to the trackleader's course wizards gave you an accurate and scalable picture of the profile ahead. Nice to be able to look down and see you had x climbs left between you and your goal, much better than a dark road or trying to interpret contours from a map. As far as I'm aware no other GPSs have this feature.
I had issues with the buttons on my Edge getting full of crud, and they'd often get stuck down rendering it inoperable. Nothing a swish in a stream wouldn't fix, but a bit annyoing.
I loved having a proper 900 lumen light setup in my Exposure Diablo, it gave me the ability to ride the steep descents at pace. I'd find riding with woosy AA light setups like Craig's shit scary, especially when you are falling asleep!

900 lumens?? AA lights I had sucked. 900 freak'n lumens?? I road all the single track and that awful trail after Helena in the dark with crappy lights. I think that would huge to have good lights. My weakest part of the kit for sure. And the mounts came loose so I had to keep pointing them back up on the trail.

Etrex 20 was fine little GPS and it told where the tops and bottoms of the climbs were but no profile. Not as good as 800 but worked well. Some guys found a really good price at the outdoor store in Banff last year if you don't have one.

[Trhoppe]

I'm not doing TD until next year, so the longest my setup has been tested without re-charging is 2 days, but this has worked perfect.

- GPS - Garmin 800
- Light - Cygolite Expilion 600 - http://www.cygolite.com/products/expilion600.html
- Backup Power - Goal Zero Power Pack - http://www.goalzero.com/shop/p/133/Guide-10-Plus-Battery-Pack/2:8/
- Extra set of AA Sony Eneloop batteries

The Garmin lasts for ~8-10 hours on a full charge in map mode
The Light goes 3 hours on Medium, 8 hours on Low.

One set of AA batteries in the Power Pack will charge the Garmin and Light from 0% to 100% in about 15 minutes, so with two sets of batteries you are getting 24-28 hours of Garmin and 9-24 hours of lights.

For the TD, I'll be adding a USB Plug 2 and a powered front hub. Since the Garmin and Light both use USB charging, you just need two cables (which can't be helped, I can't find a light with Mini USB, and my 800 has Mini USB, if the 810 has Micro USB, that would be good enough reason to switch). I plan on keeping the battery pack as a full on backup and just alternating between the Garmin and the light in the USB Plug 2 until they are both charged up.

-Tom