Grand Loop dreaming

[DaveH]

I see the gauge bottoming out on 4/11 https://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/snow/station/sweplot/sweplot2.cgi?yrList=median&yrList=avg&yrList=2018&yrList=2017&stationList=CPSC2&tavg=s&hsim=&hires=on&showtab=on&index=&dbsvr=&indextitle=Untitled  Check the tabular data.

With regards to that Tab singletrack MC is so enamored of, the "2 week rule" was two weeks in late May, so 2 weeks in mid-april are not guaranteed to be the same. Hard to say when that trail will be good to go, but dollars to donuts the rest of the route is good to go barring any spring storms.

If I was going to do it, I would go ASAP and skip the tab singletrack, skip bedrock in favor of Koski traverse, and ride the new stuff to/from Nucla. I'd also start/stop the clock in the same spot with no untimed section. This removes any question of how to handle an ITT that started at some point on the loop other than GJ, something I ran into in '09. A pure interpretation of the Grand Loop and closing the loop between end of Tab and beginning of KOKO.

A late april/early may run will be cold at night. Maybe I was always too skinny when I did it but I froze my ass off twice on that loop.

I have ridden the Tab singletrack twice and attempted it another when snow was too deep to see it. The last time I rode it there was still melt going on and it was a stream in many places, I was leaving big ugly ruts and felt bad about doing it but hey the course is the course is the course. The trail is not very fun...and it limits the window of opportunity for this ass kicker. Technically it is not even part of the Grand Loop. Maybe MC can enlighten us as to its history. I used to favor keeping it but meh, kick it to the curb. It's only one cut. The route gets much harder regardless with Koski traverse and new stuff to/from Nucla. 3+ days for barnstormers, 3.5+ for mortals.

So has anyone gotten serious about a run and/or a grand depart?

[Gimmearaise]

I see the gauge bottoming out on 4/11 https://www.cbrfc.noaa.gov/snow/station/sweplot/sweplot2.cgi?yrList=median&yrList=avg&yrList=2018&yrList=2017&stationList=CPSC2&tavg=s&hsim=&hires=on&showtab=on&index=&dbsvr=&indextitle=Untitled  Check the tabular data.

If I was going to do it, I would go ASAP and skip the tab singletrack, skip bedrock in favor of Koski traverse, and ride the new stuff to/from Nucla. I'd also start/stop the clock in the same spot with no untimed section. This removes any question of how to handle an ITT that started at some point on the loop other than GJ, something I ran into in '09. A pure interpretation of the Grand Loop and closing the loop between end of Tab and beginning of KOKO.

This is what I would do if I ran it right now, but I'm not going to race anymore this spring, that being said, I think we might need to just play it out from year to year as far as start times are concerned. What do people think about rolling May 11th? I'll be traveling to Peru on the 11th, so I wont have any presence, but the route/routes are known. It would be awesome to see folks resurrect this! I hope to give it another spin this fall.

[peteshoe]

May 11th is mothers day weekend and 12 hours of Mesa Verde for me.  My only window is leaving June 1st - 

[Gimmearaise]

Lets keep it at June first, I'm happy with that each year. If it's any comparison, it was mid 90's on the AZT this year, we all survived.

[DaveH]

For the past couple weeks or so I wake up thinking about the Grand Loop. There is no denying it, I have the fever. Jeesh.

The devil is in the details. Last time I did this thing no gpx was available, knowing an unknowable course was part of the experience. An old pamphlet was my guide, along with a gpx track I'd created in topofusion. Now we have trailforks, mtbproject, and west end trails for paradox files. Plenty of resources.

In regards to that crux singletrack where paradox meets the tab, it is not so simple. Looking at the tab on mtbproject, and reading the tab trail log from copmoba at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dDCr-GSdRbNN3Y4zDuX8sj_uWn625xl_UvQztel4f3U/edit, turns out that singletrack is part of the tab. The paradox ends right in the middle of the singletrack.

Whoever does the first ride of the "new" GL will set a precedent, so I think we should decide what to do with this section of trail. Although I favor a strict interpretation of the GL, it's hard to say exactly what that is, so here are options as I see them. Map below should make them clear.

1. stick with historical route, including the short section of tab singletrack E of the end of the paradox.
2. At the end of the paradox, head north on the Tab singletrack. This removes the tab singletrack E of the end of the paradox.
3. Skip the singletrack, head north on the divide road to E Bull road. Not exactly the Tab but makes earlier departures possible.
4. Something entirely different?

What do y'all think?

[peteshoe]

I'm in for 6/1. I think I have two more coming as well.  Thanks Dave for the above, I'm entering research mode this week.

[BD]

I ride up there pretty frequently. Have ridden the GL several times, but never as one continuous go. My 2 cents is this:
1. Keep all the ST you can. When I ride the PT/TT Junction I skip the section that dog-legs west and then south off of Transfer Road along the actual powerline (which is part of the historical GL route), and cut off Divide Road right to the ST referred to as “east” of the terminus of the PT in the post above. This is the Pool Creek ST and is really fun I think. It IS the most snow-bound section, but that is part of the joy of riding the GL route through there- when will the snow be do-able, but the desert sections not be too brutal. If I could figure how to post a map on here I would show the TF track I typically ride. It misses very little of the original GL route- and all of what it misses is either Divide Road, Transfer Road, or along the power line.
2. Racing is not my thing, but for a race format there seems like no reason there could not be the option of a “snow detour” as we see with AZTR, TD and others from year to year. If Pool Creek ST is too buried some seasons the race organizer could shorten the Pool Creek ST section to just from Box Spring area to East Bull; or skip ST altogether and take Divide Road to East Bull in a massive snow year. This would be consistent with how other big Ultras are managed. Someone would just have to get up there pre-race and suss out the snowpack- generally easy to do as all the Pool ST is close to the Divide Road- this assumes Divide Road Gates are open and Road is passable.
You could also just say the route is the route, and walk the snow in big years- plenty of that goes on in other races as well.
3. Since I can’t figure out how to post a map, what I like to ride most is this (assume riding loop counter clockwise- KT to PT to TT): ascend Houser Road from Glencoe Bench to Divide Road, right on Divide Road for ~2.5 miles until cross powerline; left (north) very briefly on powerline and then immediate left (west) onto Pool Creek ST; follow ST ~7 miles or so to East Bull; right down East Bull to Roubideau... This is the best and most fun way to make the historically unclear linkage of the PT and the TT in my experience. AND it sticks super close to the original GL track- which I think matters.
4. Lastly, I am planning to be up there Wed/Thur of this week riding this 120 mile UP Loop route I have dreamed up. Snow pack allowing, I will ride all of this trail we are talking about, and could report back on what the snow/mud situation on the Pool Creek/East Bull/Roubideau sections is as of now if that would help people thinking of a June 1 race launch. bd

[BD]

Not sure if this will post, or be very visible. But, if so, I like to ride the red line. The black line to east is where the original GL route stayed with Divide Road, Transfer Road (briefly), and the actual powerline itself.

[snowblind]

I'm heading out on May 25. Starting and finishing in Fruita.  Riding I-70 to Loma as the new bike path is incomplete, it can be ridden as it is graded but it is missing the last bridge at the Loma boat launch.  I'm skipping Bed Rock and riding the PT as described on the West End Trails page so I will be refueling in Nucla.  The store in Nucla is open 6A-8P and is now selling foot long sandwiches out of their deli. It has everything you could possibly need food wise and feels like a super Walmart compared to the Bedrock store (last visited in 06 or 07). I simply spliced the updated PT trail into the GL file on this site. As far as the GJ section, I'm keeping the clock running and plan on riding the bike path back to Fruita.  Door to door sounds nice to me but I'll start and stop timing at the I70 ramp in Fruita. Starting mid day unless its stupid hot, in that case I'll start early evening.  My last start was nearly 100 degrees and I went to a movie between the prerace meeting and the start just to soak up some a/c.  Hopefully this time its cooler.  I prerode the new bedrock, its scary dry and all of the drainages were dry except a pothole on the old PT that I used to make it a loop.

Anyone is welcome to start with me, just let me know and I'll keep you in the loop as to a start time.

[snowblind]

This is the what I'm loading. 

[Biggs23]

I'm in for 6/1. I think I have two more coming as well.  Thanks Dave for the above, I'm entering research mode this week.

Hi Pete.Are you still in for June first? I'm 95% in for that date as well.Can't pull off the 25th.Do you have other riders starting with you on the first? I might have one rider willing to give it a go as well.
What are you thinking for a start time? I've been toying with a Midnight start time(Just a thought).

Cheers,
Thomas

[peteshoe]

Hi Thomas,
There are two of us, maybe 3, driving from the front range in the late afternoon on May 31st.  Given the low interest, we were thinking about just starting when we get there, Thursday night.  We are also kicking around a West Water Start.  Where are you driving in from?  When were you planning to arrive?

[DaveH]

You could also just say the route is the route, and walk the snow in big years

Some of us have tried - the trail is impossible to follow when it's buried. That's the primary reason to cut it (from a race loop). It limits an already tiny window of opportunity for the route.

The event has not had a promoter since I believe 2007. I doubt it will again, too much pushback from "the man".

4. Lastly, I am planning to be up there Wed/Thur of this week riding this 120 mile UP Loop route I have dreamed up. Snow pack allowing, I will ride all of this trail we are talking about, and could report back on what the snow/mud situation on the Pool Creek/East Bull/Roubideau sections is as of now if that would help people thinking of a June 1 race launch. bd

Thanks for the thoughts (your graphic works fine) and it would be great to hear an update on conditions

[Biggs23]

Hi Thomas,
There are two of us, maybe 3, driving from the front range in the late afternoon on May 31st.  Given the low interest, we were thinking about just starting when we get there, Thursday night.  We are also kicking around a West Water Start.  Where are you driving in from?  When were you planning to arrive?

Hey Pete,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.I'm also driving in from the front range,but I have to swing through Aspen to pick up a few things.I will be starting at 10ish Friday night from Fruita and biking the route  clockwise.Are you biking clockwise or counter? I'm sure I will see you out on the trail.

[BD]

Ended up riding Cottonwood to Cottonwood via Roubideau, East Bull and Divide Road. Roubideau all open, all creeks with water, all easily crossed with dry feet- a low water year for sure. Pool Creek ST muddy and snowy in spots still, but good soon I would think. Clockwise the exit out of Monitor Creek to Potter Canyon is very obscure- I somehow got off route and had quite the little bushwhack- so watch your map/track clockwise through there- it is all pretty obvious going counter-clock.   Gorgeous. Tons of animals. Didn’t see a single human.

[DaveH]

Thanks for the beta. This is definitely the earliest I've heard of someone making through the Pool Creek singletrack. Sounds prime right now, Roubideau is one of my favorite sections of the whole loop.

[MikeC]

Rode out at Loma tonight.  The bike path is *not* complete between Fruita and Loma.  Bridges missing and heavy equipment still plowing up earth. 

You can ride it for a bit more than ~halfway from Fruita to Loma, then when it makes a ~40* turn to the right, away from the Interstate, there is a gap in the fence to your left.  Cut through the fence and ride the shoulder of I-70 the rest of the way.

[peteshoe]

Awesome thanks Mike, I was hoping we could ride some of the path.  So Kyle and I will start an ITT tomorrow night when ever we get there.  I don't think we can call it a grand depart with two people! We're going counter clockwise, starting from Loma and riding the whole route (Koski Traverse) and the extra trail including the power lines that BD called out. in the above map.  We considered adding the western rim for fun, but decided to go as "classic" as we could -

Thomas, are you still going out on Friday clockwise? We'll look for you, hope to see you out there. 

I'm looking forward to finally seeing this course, thanks for all the beta guys -

[MikeC]

Awesome thanks Mike, I was hoping we could ride some of the path.  So Kyle and I will start an ITT tomorrow night when ever we get there.  I don't think we can call it a grand depart with two people! We're going counter clockwise, starting from Loma and riding the whole route (Koski Traverse) and the extra trail including the power lines that BD called out. in the above map.  We considered adding the western rim for fun, but decided to go as "classic" as we could -

Thomas, are you still going out on Friday clockwise? We'll look for you, hope to see you out there. 

I'm looking forward to finally seeing this course, thanks for all the beta guys -

I'd ride Western Rim for sure -- you get bonus points for adding singletrack!

We rode a loop out of Nucla over last weekend.  Singletrack additions there are a nice bonus.  Very, very little water between town of Nucla and start of Tab -- effectively none on route.  We had to detour down to Tabeguache Creek, which was but a trickle.  There is a barely trickling spring maybe 2 miles shy of Divide Rd, and then there's a little lake ("Darling Lake") at the intersection of Houser Rd and Divide Rd that we ended up filtering from.  Antone Spring was great.

Pool Creek ST had ~12 trees down, but zero snow.  Dry and dusty actually.

[JimL]

Hey Kids,

First off, thanks to everyone for all the beta and WETA / Paul Koski for getting the reroute completed.  

Awesome thanks Mike, I was hoping we could ride some of the path.  So Kyle and I will start an ITT tomorrow night when ever we get there.  I don't think we can call it a grand depart with two people! We're going counter clockwise, starting from Loma and riding the whole route (Koski Traverse) and the extra trail including the power lines that BD called out. in the above map.  We considered adding the western rim for fun, but decided to go as "classic" as we could -

Thomas, are you still going out on Friday clockwise? We'll look for you, hope to see you out there.  

I'm looking forward to finally seeing this course, thanks for all the beta guys -

Good Luck guys, looking forward to some good stories!  


Eric D. and I got out last week for a CCW GL run.  We rode S. Camp/Broadway/C-340/I-70 from the LL to Loma, the Koski/Nucla reroute to see all the new stuff and we skipped the Divide/Transfer/Powerline roadie gig but hit all the singletrack, turning left from Divide Road onto the Powerline and left onto the Tab.

Still working on my writeup but in short- Eric had to bail at Whitewater due to stomach/gut issues and my time was 4 days, 21 hours, 57 minutes.  (From Sun May 20 @ 6:59 am to Fri May 25 at 4:56 am)  20-ish hour push at the end from Traver Trail/Moore Creek to the LL.  

Here's the links to my pics: https://photos.app.goo.gl/VyMcRye4WRUN89hY2

Cheers,

Jim