How long will it take to race the Stage Coach?

[mtnbik]

I realize everyone has their own goals of racing or touring the Stagecoach 400, but any idea what you think the fastest time would be to complete this race?  Has anyone done it already and recorded their time?  Wondering if the possiility of doing it in 2 or 3 days would be feasible and not have to carry overnight gear?  Thanks, Chris

[trebor]

I spent 165 miles on it this weekend. It took from Saturday at 9 AM to Sunday at 9 PM to cover that ground.

It's tougher than the 31K of climbing lends one to believe it may be. We were also hit with 20-30mph headwinds Saturday afternoon to Sunday noon. This absolutely had an impact on forward progress. But remove the wind and it's still a demanding route. Miles and miles and miles of sand in some sections. Long loose climbs. 60 miles or more of desert to cross without resupply.

I would carry gear to survive a night in the desert even if I was thinking of making a sleepless push. This weekend saws temps approaching 90* in the low desert in the day and in the low 40's at night.

Of course your milage may very. Along with your willingness to suffer.

[mtnbik]

Hi Trebor, that does look like a tougher course than I am anticipating.  The 165 miles you rode, which part of the course was that?  You said there was 60 miles without resupply of food/water, approximately how many hours does it take to cross that section (just trying to think about how much water to take?) Is that the longest section in the whole route that you have no resupply of water/food?   Also, you said it took you from 9am Sat to 9pm on Sunday to do that section, how long do you think you hung out at camp sleeping?  One last question, you said it was in the 90's during the day and low 40's at night, do you think that will be about the highest and lowest temperatures it will be along the whole course?  Thanks for the information, just trying to get a better handle on what I am up against.  Thanks, Chris.

[trebor]

From Idyllwild to Alpine is what we rode - so the first 1/3(ish) of the course.

It has been reported to me that 60-mile section is the longest without resupply. I will ride more of the route this coming weekend for more beta. I'd say it took about 6 hours riding time to cross that. Some of it pavement with a high avg speed, some of it hike-a-bike, some of it slogging through a dry wash.

The first 80 miles from the start went fast... then it got sandy. It took over 4 hours to cover the next 20 miles of desert sand.

Bivy was at 12:30AM Sat. Up by 7AM Sun. The resupply down route didn't open till 9AM - so we weren't in too big of a hurry to get up.

I'm not an expert on the weather in SoCal. I just moved here a few months ago. But my understanding is this time of year runs a wide range. Winter snow storms are known to occur as well as summer like weather. I'd plan for (and subsequently watch the weather the week leading up to) freezing and raining to 100F as the possible temp range.

[mtnbik]

I assume you camped at the Stagecoach RV Park since you said you had to wait for the 9am store to open, is that correct?  In the first 100 miles it looks like you can get water/food at mile 23.2 at Anza resort, then if you go off route at mile 55.1 to Borrego Springs you can get food/water there, did you do that?  If so, how far off route is it?  Then the next water isn't until mile 111 at Stagecoach RV Park.  So I assume the 60 miles without food/water is that section from 55.1 to mile 111, correct?  Thanks for all the beta, great info to have before an adventure like this.  Chris.

[trebor]

No water/food from Borrego Springs to Stagecoach RV, that is correct.

I think all the on route, or close to on route, locations are in the cues. Is Lake Hemet Market listed at mile ~10? There is a store there.  I'm not looking at them this moment...

Also, food is directly on route in Borrego, no need to go off route -- however, just 0.1 miles off is a great burrito place. I ate there.

The next water after Stagecoach RV is the spigot at Noble. That's about 40 miles if I recall. Between Noble and Alpine are a couple of resupply options.

There is also a surprising amount of surface water - for being a desert and all. Consume at your own risk, of course.

[hikernks]

I dunno, but my plane leaves on the third!  Also, thanks for the G2 on the route, Trebor.  What kind of set-up were you riding?

[Jilleo]

Thanks for the beta on the pre-ride. As far as surface water, a lot could change in a month. Seems smartest to stock up adequately between supply points, but I'll probably be carrying a small filter so I can horde water if it's available.

I'd love to hear how your ride next week goes. I ran some trails near the Sunrise Highway during the San Diego 100 last year; that's about the only part of the entire region I've even seen. Well, that and Sea World. Looking forward to this ride!

[trebor]

HT 29er

[brendanc]

It's particularly exciting for me to see this first year come together. I honestly can't guess what the fastest time will/could be, as we're all going to more or less "on sight" the route this first year through. I think we're the lucky ones, getting to hit it hard for the first time.

Though I arguably know the route better than any one other person, there's still a section I haven't ridden myself... being a dad & startup business owner definitely has it's demands!

[kdinger]

I will ride more of the route this coming weekend for more beta.

Trebor/Rob,  What section are you riding this weekend?  Would you mind some company?  I had hoped to ride a bunch of the course before the race, but a knee injury that kept me off the bike for 2 weeks and then my son being in the hospital for the last week leaves me just this weekend and perhaps next...

-Keith

[trebor]

Keith, right now i'm 99% sure I won't be riding any of the SC course this weekend. family events this week have required an alteration in my travels.
Sorry - I hope you can still get out there. I'll be in the area next week, but participating in the Julian Death March instead.

Rob

[kdinger]

Keith, right now i'm 99% sure I won't be riding any of the SC course this weekend. family events this week have required an alteration in my travels.
Sorry - I hope you can still get out there. I'll be in the area next week, but participating in the Julian Death March instead.

Rob

Rob,

Oh well.  If anyone else on here is interested, let me know. 

-Keith

[brendanc]

Hey all!

It's come to my attention that- for at least a few- people might be expecting the route to be a leisurely dirt road cruise. It's not!
There's soft sand, hard rocks, areas that require route finding, and lots of singletrack... especially for the first half of the route. The route is rugged, remote, very difficult stuff. We don't have the luxury of having hundreds of riders wearing grooves in the route ahead of us.

There's little to no beta.
Still not sure what to expect? Crack open a map and have a look for yourself.

[trebor]

Hey all!

It's come to my attention that- for at least a few- people might be expecting the route to be a leisurely dirt road cruise. It's not!
There's soft sand, hard rocks, areas that require route finding, and lots of singletrack... especially for the first half of the route. The route is rugged, remote, very difficult stuff. We don't have the luxury of having hundreds of riders wearing grooves in the route ahead of us.

There's little to no beta.
Still not sure what to expect? Crack open a map and have a look for yourself.

agreed. she's a tough route in very inhospitable conditions. especially if the weather keeps gettin' hotter.

[krefs]

Yup, from what I've heard from a few people that have ridden it in the past couple weeks, it's definitely not the types of riding one might envision for "a great shakedown for Tour Divide racers" as the website touts. That being said, it sounds like a pretty spectacular 400-mile loop! Nice work getting all that linked together, Brendan et al. I'll have to get out and ride it before too long...

[tlideen]

Brendan,

I see there is a waiting list to go on the route with everyone. Would it be ok if i tagged along and gave you my SPOT info if i can get off work? Please let me know as i would love to make this ride.\

Taylor

[brendanc]

Brendan,

I see there is a waiting list to go on the route with everyone. Would it be ok if i tagged along and gave you my SPOT info if i can get off work? Please let me know as i would love to make this ride.\

Taylor

Taylor, check your inbox this evening. Let's get you rolling.

As for completion times on the route, I expect the bell curve to be around 4 days, based on my own expected time. And I'm just an ordinary caveman. It'll be a tough 4 days on the bike for sure; getting up early, riding all day, going to bed exhausted.

Some riders who really go for it will crack under that time, and others will finish closer to 5 days.

[thelocust]

Hmmmmm I'm really considering going as light as possible, I just spent a week riding in the baja desert in 100 degree heat with no resupplys all day and i think i can pull off a no bivy ride (obviously i'd sleep but im thinking of trying to make it to hotel type areas for that) , I'd bring clothes to survive a night in the desert but I'd really rather not carry a camp kit but I am teetering on the edge here. Sometimes being first has advantages, other times not so much.

Having done Trans iowa a few times I've got a handle on the no sleep part of racing but this is obviously going to be quite different terrain wise although the amount of climbing is similar 25k vs 30k still staying on technical singletrack while tired is a whole different animal than staying on a gravel road.

Either way, i can't wait.

Oh, Brendan what is the rule on begging for shelter? like can I stop at a random house and and ask to sleep in their garage?

[Roland Sturm]

.. definitely not the types of riding one might envision for "a great shakedown for Tour Divide racers" as the website touts...

While Kurt is the expert on TD, Brendan on stage coach, and me of neither, I actually envisioned Stage Coach having a lot of the type of ride as TD in New Mexico, but without vicious dogs and dangerous drivers. Rough jeep trail going up to Brazos Ridge - when I was riding there, I thought that was just like Oriflamme Canyon. Sandy washes in Anza Borrego? How about Grants to Cuba (the real route, not the road alternative)? Rocky Noble Canyon single track in the Cleveland National Forest - same tire slicing potential as the CDT in the Gila National Forest. And both are predominantly dirt road, even though Stagecoach 400 has a lot more single track than TD over 7 times the distance. Some sweet single track if I remember the area around Sunrise Highway correctly and fun trails after San Diego.

How long does it take? Probably the sleepless hardcore riders do it under 48 hours. For myself, I'm planning for 3 nights out and have full camping gear and water filter. Only decision is between bivy and tent, depending on whether. Julian forecast night temps for this week are dipping below freezing, although chances are that it'll be dryer and warmer in 2 weeks.