Tour Divide lions, bears, and snake risks when camping in a bivy sack?

[febikes]

I am planning my Tour Divide ride and thinking about how to approach the risks associated with road side camping in a bivy sack.

My thinking is that in risk from bears and and lions while actually riding is lower because hopefully the wild life is not likely to prey on a moving vehicle with lights and unnatural sounds.  On the other hand I am a little concerned about the idea of sleeping in my bivy or out in the open.  In the bivy sack it seems there may be more risk from a bear or lion.  They may thing that a bag that smells a little like discarded human food might be worth investigation.  Snakes might also simply think it is a nice warm place to hang out.

How much risk of bivy attack exists?  Is this like winning the lottery or do I actually need to make plans and take steps to prevent attack.  If plans are needed what is a typical approach for TDR riders?

[Endurance Junkie]

Just dont smoother yourself in honey and you'll be fine, really dont think a tent will make much of a diff. Eccept for kepping you drier.
Bivy and tarp for me!

[THE LONG RANGER]

Def. be, "bear aware", but here's the bigger danger: running into a bear or a moose on a trail and startling them. Easy to do if you're going fast, downhill and turn a corner. Whistles, bells, off-key singing (my specialty) I do encourage. Locals will be in disbelief if you aren't packing bear spray (and pack it, until the Great Divide Basin)

The 2011 thread I believe had a map Matt made of basic bad-bear places. Moose can be a bit aggressive, but I've only seen youngin's run away from me. Still not to be messed with. Mountain Lions will stalk you, learn your habits, etc - Not especially worried about them, if you don't give them time to stalk. Just don't let local lores of them scare you. Some of the stuffed ones in out-of-the-way bars are, well, incredible.

[THE LONG RANGER]

Here's that map,

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&oe=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&msid=200334849650645495946.00047e45e4239031f00c3&start=0&num=200&sll=46.7248,-112.807617&sspn=1.269004,2.221985&z=7

[Boney]

I didn't see any bears last year, but I did quickly learn that my Montbell bivy was susceptible to mouse attacks. I woke up with the little bastards inside the bivy on two separate nights; after I started hanging my food away from me it ceased to be an issue. Other than that the bivy worked great and I'll be using it for races in the future. 

[Done]

if you want to understand bears, here's your book:
http://www.amazon.com/Bear-Attacks-Causes-Avoidance-revised/dp/158574557X

Don't sleep with your food, and make lots of noise when riding through areas with low visibility.

[Jilleo]

The risk of being bothered by a large animal while you're quietly sleeping is so minimal, and pretty much the only reason would be if you were sleeping with your bacon and a black bear wandered by. Large predators don't prey on humans; even incidents with black bears and mountain lions are rare enough to qualify as a "winning the lottery" fluke, and most biologists attribute this behavior to "bad" black bears and mountain lions — i.e. misfits. Agree with others that you should educate yourself, if for no other reason so you don't fret about it so much.

[DocTrike]

I am not worried about the bears its BigFoot that scares the hell out of me!

[pbasinger]

I am planning my Tour Divide ride and thinking about how to approach the risks associated with road side camping in a bivy sack.

My thinking is that in risk from bears and and lions while actually riding is lower because hopefully the wild life is not likely to prey on a moving vehicle with lights and unnatural sounds.  On the other hand I am a little concerned about the idea of sleeping in my bivy or out in the open.  In the bivy sack it seems there may be more risk from a bear or lion.  They may thing that a bag that smells a little like discarded human food might be worth investigation.  Snakes might also simply think it is a nice warm place to hang out.

How much risk of bivy attack exists?  Is this like winning the lottery or do I actually need to make plans and take steps to prevent attack.  If plans are needed what is a typical approach for TDR riders?

You should really carry an electric fence to be safe.  Little extra weight, but totally worth it.


http://www.udap.com/bearshock.htm

[donkey]

I'm with Pete.....better safe than sorry. Buy the fence!

[Done]

When I worked on the trail crew in Jasper National Park, we used electric bear fences. They work great--although there can be unintended consequences, especially with a bunch of bored trail crew guys and too much beer...

Of course, I realize that Pete's just kidding about bikepacking with one.

[mr cowboy]

if you want to understand bears, here's your book:
http://www.amazon.com/Bear-Attacks-Causes-Avoidance-revised/dp/158574557X

Don't sleep with your food, and make lots of noise when riding through areas with low visibility.

Great recommendation on an excellent book. Like others have said you have much greater chance of startling a bear while riding. The only time I've ever seen a mountain lion was a chance encounter. Really cool to see one since they generally are solitary animals. I was cresting a climb in the Rattlesnake area in Missoula when it happened. Initially I thought it was a deer standing across the trail as I saw the tannish brown body. When I got a good look, I saw the tail and the lion's head looking down the trail in my direction. It was a good seventy five yards away. For a moment I was wishing I had my camera with me, even with it's less than great zoom it would've been nice to snap a quick picture. Instead the mountain lion walked off and I decided to turn around to warn a couple of people I had passed on the trail. 

Last summer a friend and I spooked a moose near Butte. We were off adventuring on a Forest Service road off of Homestake Pass. We had been intentionally making a lot of noise as there were some blind corners and we were traveling fast.  We heard a racket off in the trees and saw a big Moose running up the side of the hill away from us.

General advice - make noise while you are out there. Read the book Toby recommended. Don't sleep with your food near you. Hang it on a tree a good distance away to be safe. Odds are low a bear is going to see you in your bivy sack and think yum human burrito! Have fun out there!

[ron]

Re bivy setups, do most folks add a tarp or nah? I'm looking at the eVENT MLD bivy for all-weather use by itself rather than the Superlight + my tarp because I won't have trekking poles and don't know about the availability of sticks everywhere when conditions require the tarp.

Though maybe the Superlight would work by itself for most nights, which would be cool since WPB bivies can be pretty miserable.

Thanks for any thoughts and insights here.

Ron (class of '13 hopeful)

[ron]

Disregard my question-- was just persuaded by a super adventurer (won't name drop) to go the Superlight + tarp route. Thanks all!

[epicEdub]

Hey febikes,
I would say you are at higher risk of injury from an animal while riding compared to sleeping. They aren’t preying on ya, but you may startle them.  As TheArtist was saying, make noise when at speed or when visibility is limited.

As for how to approach the “risks associated with road side camping”.  The scarcest animals are humans… but as for bears, etc, just minimize your food smells at camp. When you cook/eat at night, just do so before you pass out and then ride a few more miles so smells are behind you.  Carry less smelly food, food trash, etc.

Find your spot to sleep for the night, then piss about 5-6’ (downhill or all over vegetation) from where you rest your head.  (This is only really viable if you are a male due to more testosterone) Place your food near your head between you and your piss and proceed to pass out. Make sure your food is in the open (not in my bivy, pack, frame bag, etc), this is so mice don’t eat holes in your gear.

A lot of people will tell you not to sleep with your food. But while out hiking when carries are hundreds of miles, I cannot take the chance of losing my food. I literally have over 2yrs wroth of nights in bivys with my food always nearby, no problem besides mice.

If you are up north or playing with Grizzlies for long periods, you might wish to carry spray. I choose not to carry any when I hiked the CDT, but each their own. Never carry a gun for critters. Spray, bear bangers, and rape alarm grenades all work better. 

If you are finding yourself still worrying while on your ride, get some ear plugs and just sleep. You are at a much greater danger if you are not well rested while riding compared to things that go bump in the night.

More info:
http://www.joshspice.com/2012/01/staying-safe-in-bear-country-part-1.html
http://www.joshspice.com/2011/10/bear-spray-or-firearms-you-decide.html

[BobM]

"rape alarm grenades"  ??

And here I was mostly worried about them mauling me!

[epicEdub]

Up north, sometimes grizzlies will circle ya, trying to figure out what you are, get up wind, etc. Some times it takes longer for them to leave ya alone that you would like.

Erin and Hig's video from there trek.

We're not food

Bear banger:

The Bear Banger Review

"rape alarm grenades"
Throw a "personal alarm" with the rubber band around the alarm button or get the ones with a pull cord. It's like a bear banger, just lighter, cheaper, and reusable, the come in all types of noises. Mine sounds like a car alarm.

Wake up to a rape alarm

Andrew Skurka's scary shit...

I scared the $hit out of a grizzly bear, literally