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  Topic Name: Idea: Multi-day points series Reply #20 on: June 27, 2009, 05:23:15 PM
Chad B
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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2009, 05:23:15 PM »

I think this is a great idea... I just calculated my points and it seems like I am right behind Dave Harris. Let's give this idea a go!
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  Topic Name: Idea: Multi-day points series Reply #21 on: June 28, 2009, 09:13:30 PM
protoceratops


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« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2009, 09:13:30 PM »

Just my opinion...

Gotta chime in here...to agree with posts making reference to the likely occurence of a
"slippery slope" effect that can - that WILL - push events in such a series in a direction
that is all too well known.

Do you remember when the MTB scene was even more laid back than you guys are?
That was a while ago.  Just a bunch of folks that liked to ride around in the dirt and see
what they could - and could not - do. 
Some of you remember.  Every one of you grew up excited to ride your bike, and you
still are, and that's why this kind of riding appeals to you.  You still have what all the
mainstream MTBers have lost.  Where did it go?  NORBA, USCF, Volvo-Cannondale,
and so on.  Pro MTB racers are just roadies with bigger tyres now.  All business, very
high strung, lots of elbows, etc.

SM: your enthusiasm, and your deeds, are beyond question.  But making a formal series
with awards, no matter how ethereal, and rankings, no matter how unofficial, cannot help
but change things.  Why do that?  It is possible for the sport to grow, but it must only be
allowed to grow, Not force fed until plump and juicy.  Not mainstreamed.  Not reduced to
something more marketable.  Managed growth is a beautiful thing, but immediate change
invokes the Second Law of Thermodynamics.  Entropy takes over, and disorder increases. 
Other posters see that too, right?


I expect that this is why Mikesee is such a retro grouch about change, and the upscaling
of Divide racing.  Personally, I really dig seeing the TD updates.  Not much chance of ME
having a month off and the cash to do anything like that in the near future, so it is the
closest I can get right now.  Exciting stuff.  But at a cost.
 
 
Endurance riding off road is much better the way it is now than if it is allowed to go the way
of, say, the RAAM.  Check out the awful reporting and cheap, jingoistic, cliched, commercial
patina of the whole RAAM website.  And it used to be an amazing thing.  The crown jewel of
the ultra-endurance world.  It used to be driven by people who wanted to see if they could
do it.  Now it is driven by something else entirely.  Now it is just so different.  So much less. 
 
Divide racing and offroad ultras are better as they are..decidedly, deliberately, an acquired taste.   
 
Just my opinion...
 

 
Oh, the brevet comment was right on the $$$.  Brevet riders - except that you should say
"randonneurs", are very laid back, would rather ride together than race each other as a rule,
and achieve such limited awards as there are by finishng, not by placing.  A very mellow
bunch.  Majcolo mixes UMCA with RUSA, though.  UMCA is racing oriented, but there is
no such thing as a RUSA race.  Also, RUSA rides are put on internally by RUSA members,
on a not-for-profit basis, whereas UMCA events are primarily run by commercial promoters
The most famous brevet is Paris-Brest-Paris, 1200km every four years.  The world's oldest
bicycle race.  Lots of aid stations - every 40-80km - but no on-course support allowed.  No
team cars, no SO driving out to meet you.  Inexpensive, low key, FUN according to those who
have been. I have not.  The most famous UMCA race is the Race Across AMerica.  Which
is technically still running right now, although the winners are done already.
 
Also, about the idea that an unofficial series will skirt the rules on issues like "races in a
National Park",  That sounds like "how to kill a race in one easy lesson" to me.  All it would
take is some angry USFS Ranger - or Mountie - snooping around the message boards, and
the race organizer, and all the racers, could be looking at some prolonged unpleasantness.
These message boards are very public, you know.  It is too late RIGHT NOW to keep the idea
of an unofficial ultra series a secret.
 
And all it takes is one pissed off government official in the wrong place at the wrong time,
and that's it, right?  Assuming secrets can be kept is a high-stress, high-risk ploy.  And to
what end?
 
Just my opinion...

steve

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  Topic Name: Idea: Multi-day points series Reply #22 on: June 28, 2009, 09:24:33 PM
Chad B
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« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2009, 09:24:33 PM »

an acquired taste.
Hmmmmmmm, that is interesting you say that b/c that is how I define myself... I am an acquired taste.

Do you remember when the MTB scene was even more laid back than you guys are?
Yeah, when safety meetings where the norm! Hell yeah! Let's bring back those days.


I expect that this is why Mikesee is such a retro grouch about change, and the upscaling
of Divide racing.  Personally, I really dig seeing the TD updates.


While I am not sure Mikesee is a grouch (rumor has it that he fishes and eats ice cream more than he rides b/c of his bad flashbacks to endurance racing..can anybody confirm this?), I am sure he is at home enjoying some pesto dish or perhaps some cheap Trader Joe's wine and brie cheese.


And all it takes is one pissed off government official in the wrong place at the wrong time,
and that's it, right?  Assuming secrets can be kept is a high-stress, high-risk ploy.  And to
what end?
Word. Just look at Iraq.

SM: your enthusiasm, and your deeds, are beyond question.  But making a formal series
with awards, no matter how ethereal, and rankings, no matter how unofficial, cannot help
but change things.  Why do that?  It is possible for the sport to grow, but it must only be
allowed to grow, Not force fed until plump and juicy.  Not mainstreamed.  Not reduced to
something more marketable.  Managed growth is a beautiful thing, but immediate change
invokes the Second Law of Thermodynamics.  Entropy takes over, and disorder increases.  
Other posters see that too, right?
Damn, I wanna say yes to that question, but I don't even understand this paragraph.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 09:54:02 PM by Chad B » Logged


  Topic Name: Idea: Multi-day points series Reply #23 on: June 28, 2009, 10:19:01 PM
protoceratops


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« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2009, 10:19:01 PM »

Chad, all I meant was that trying to grow interest in ultra offroading by
making it "more appealing" to folks who don't already get it is the wrong
direction to go.  IMHO.

And that adding some sort of overall structure would just complicate things.

And make this sport more of a target - for commercialism, for outside
regulation, for permit requirements, and a bunch of other stuff nobody
benefits from. 

And "retro-grouch" was meant kindly.  My road bike is an 80's Bianchi fixed
gear.  My NEW road bike. 

Back to my Two Buck Chuck!
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  Topic Name: Idea: Multi-day points series Reply #24 on: June 28, 2009, 10:25:23 PM
Chad B
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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2009, 10:25:23 PM »

mmmmmmmmmm.....two buck chuck. It is $3 here in Tucson. I am drinking gin and tonic right now. Third one down the hatch since I am trying to numb the pain that Scott caused me from this weeks long bikepacking trip.

I agree with not having a point system. I think most of us just ride to impress ourselves/significant other (which this does not always work, as in my case) and the other 10 people that do what we do Smiley
« Last Edit: June 28, 2009, 10:34:42 PM by Chad B » Logged


  Topic Name: Idea: Multi-day points series Reply #25 on: June 28, 2009, 10:48:53 PM
protoceratops


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« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2009, 10:48:53 PM »

Right...three dollah charles.  Cheap wine sold as formal wear.

Good idea...switching to G&T...out of tonic,so...

So where did you go?
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  Topic Name: Idea: Multi-day points series Reply #26 on: June 29, 2009, 01:26:24 PM
Chad B
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« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2009, 01:26:24 PM »

So where did you go?


We did one big loop http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,311.0.html
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