Kokopelli's Trail Race?

[Done]

I've been trying to find more information on the Kokopelli Trail Race. From what I've been able to dig up so far, it looks like the BLM clamped down pretty hard on this a couple of years ago (?) on the grounds that it wasn't a properly-permitted ride--or something along those lines. Someone even got fined. Frustrating, for sure.

Well, where there's a will, there's a way, right? Does anyone know what might happen next spring? I'd really, really like to do this race to prepare for bigger things later in the summer. Of course, I could just go out there and do it alone, but it seems like it'd be more fun to race with a group...

Ideas?

Cheers,
Toby

[Jilleo]

There is no more Kokopelli Trail Race. Sometimes a handful of people get together and time trial it, even alternating directions and starting at midnight as per the traditional race. But there is no organized event.

Earlier this summer, I toured the route over two days. It was a beautiful trip and I was able to see most of it, thanks to minimal night riding. I'd highly recommend this approach. :-)

[Chad B]

Toby,

It is now a group ride that comes every May. It's not a race. You need to be in the loop to find out when the ride is.

[Done]

A ITT group ride sounds like fun too. If anyone is willing to help me get in the loop, I'd be very appreciate.

I wonder if it would be possible to resurrect the race? Does anyone know if this was tried?

[timroz]

Dude - first you come on here asking if self supported rules are really "rules", and then you start asking in public about KTR?

You're, like, zero for 2.

[Pivvay]

I didn't even let Kurt in on the KTR his first year (which I felt bad about...) because we didn't know him.

If you hang around and ride with enough people then you'll find out when it is. Otherwise a solo ITT is quite enjoyable anyway.

The BLM has been pretty much dicks about the KTR. If you could somehow bring it back legit and for free, you'd have a huge turnout IMO. I bet 50+ year one, 100+ year two.

[Done]

Hi Timroz,

Rather than sneer at my ignorance, perhaps you could enlighten me as to why it's not OK to discuss the Kokopelli Trail Race? If the BLM killed it, has there ever been an attempt to work with the agency to gain official approval? Has it been determined that the BLM will never allow it?

I worked with the BLM a number of years ago when I was writing a guidebook. I found them pretty decent to work with, especially when dealing with non-sensitive trails (like the Kokopelli Trail, which they took an active role in constructing with COPMOBA). There were even a number of events that they partnered with local bike shops to support. I don't know if they've changed, but this would be a good place to find out, eh?

So, forgive me if I'm inadvertently treading in thin ice, but I really don't see anything wrong with discussing this issue. I'm simply trying to understand why this race died, and explore ideas for bringing it back. Seems pretty positive and constructive.

Cheers,
Toby

[Pivvay]

Toby,

If you're serious, which I'll assume you are, it's just a case that you don't know the history of this stuff again. You'll have to spend a lot of time digging on MTBR and talking to people and you'll still find the BLM basically wanted to shut the race down and wasn't interested in talking about how to make it happen. It's fine to discuss it, just no one is going to tell you when the current "event" goes down since it's a private thing these days. As far as I know, all involved pretty much hate that it's private but there hasn't been a good way around that yet. If you're wanting to throw energy at the issue, I wish you luck and will tell you what I know about the history but it's not really and internet thing (BLM rangers check the forums) and I'm not optimistic right now.

[Done]

Hi Chris,

Having worked with (never for!) the BLM, I agree that they aren't the easiest agency to understand. I found that the local guys actually had a fair bit of decision-making latitude, and they were sometimes easy to win over if approached positively.

As I recall, they didn't like events that put too many people in one place at one time, because it often led to people parking in pristine areas, pooping all over the place, etc. With a little organizational preparation (Porta Potties, clearly-marked parking areas, etc.), they might be more receptive.

That said, I don't know if this approach has already been tried. If so, I don't want to beat a dead horse. But if not, it might be productive--and I explect that lot of people would love to see it work out!

[Done]

Hi Chris,

Yep, I'm serious about putting some energy into this. While I'll happily ride the trail as an ITT, I think it would be very cool to bring a bunch of people together for a (legal) event.

You hint at some pretty bad blood in past years. I agree that we don't need to go into the ugly details in this public forum--but perhaps there's some benefit to trying something positive. Mountain bikers and the BLM have clashed for years, but there have also been some truly cool cooperative moments that far outweigh the bad times.

Does anyone think that it's worth trying?

[Pivvay]

I appreciate your optimism and encourage you to contact them if you think you might have some luck. The year Adam got a fine for essentially being the one to pick a date and direction for a standing event was otherwise pretty incredible. Looking out through the night and seeing lights strung out along the dessert for miles was really cool with 50 or 60 racers. And some big names showed up to a pretty underground thing.

Parking, trash and the crapper has never been a KTR issue for real. The Moab trailhead has more than enough parking and facilities and Fruita is good enough for as big as it's ever been. Now if 1000 people did it, well that's different. But we're not there yet.

Mostly I think the BLM is mad they're not making any money off it but it's a free event, no one is.

[Done]

Money has a way of f*cking things up all the time, eh?

Any idea how much the BLM wanted? Personally, I like free events too--but I can understand why the BLM is begging , they've had their budgets slashed for years. I wonder if they would agree to a smallish fee, like $25/rider--which would be more money than fining one "organizer"? Those who want to do the renegade ride still could (in secret, of course ), but those who don't enjoy the excitement of being chased by rangers might be willing to ante up a few bucks. Something to consider anyway, especially if it hasn't been tried. We could even consider a sponsor or two if money is truly limiting--although adding more entities never seems to make anything easier...

Chris, I appreciate the discussion. I hope that we can make this go someplace!

[Pivvay]

They never asked for money outright and I'm sure they were also mad that we weren't asking "permission" to ride on our own lands so they flexed their muscles when we got too public. There is a lot more history than I care to type out but I encourage you to contact Moab and GJ BLM and tell them you're honest intention to reintroduce the race. Ask them how to do it legally and see what they say?

It's not necessarily about the money, I certainly chipped in to pay Adam's ticket, but if the BLM wants insurance, checkpoints, rules, sag, etc etc, it's counter to the race and will not draw the same crowd. If I want to race fireroads with support I can go to Leadville! Kokopelli is a great way to learn self sufficiency, navigation, preparation and many of the skills it takes to successfully step into bigger challenges.

[Done]

I'm on it, and I'll make some calls later this week. The worst that the BLM can do is tell to go away! I'll post any progress, or lack thereof, on this forum.

I don't like being told that I can't do something fun on public lands either. But the BLM has been charted to make sure that the public lands are managed according to public desires. Obviously not as easy task, as some people think that "public" means that it's OK to plunder ancient artifacts, drill zillions of gas wells, shoot any living thing that moves, ride their bikes over sensitive virgin earth, etc. In the past, they've been pretty receptive when approached respectfully, and with a little recognition that they are just doing their jobs--and that a well-planned event isn't going cause mayhem. I actually rode a few trails with the then-current BLM guy in charge of recreation, and the poor guy shared with me how much crap he had to take from everyone--for his bosses, to every special interest group. People constantly bombarded him with problems and conflicting demands, without offering up any solutions, and it did make him rather testy.

At any rate, I think it's worth trying to cooperate with the BLM. Hopefully I won't be proven wrong, because I'd like to ride as a free man next spring!

[Chad B]

At any rate, I think it's worth trying to cooperate with the BLM. Hopefully I won't be proven wrong, because I'd like to ride as a free man next spring!

I think most of us are fine with the current status of the ride. If you want to put together a birthday ride for you and some friends, go for it. Let's not upset the balance between rides and BLM, please

[Done]

"Birthday" ride?

Don't worry, I'm not going to mess up the status quo. Seems like it couldn't get much worse anyway, from what Chris suggests. I do appreciate the advice though, and I'll certainly be very careful.

But I am going to see if there's any willingness at the BLM to allow some sort of legal organized ride--one that still preserves the DIY ethos of past events. If you don't want to join this effort, then no worries. Ride one, ride the other, ride none--whatever floats anyone's boat. I expect that there would be a lot of riders who would be excited to ride this with the BLM's blessing. But who knows--this might get nowhere, and I'll be doing an ITT next spring.

[DaveH]

But I am going to see if there's any willingness at the BLM to allow some sort of legal organized ride--one that still preserves the DIY ethos of past events. If you don't want to join this effort, then no worries. Ride one, ride the other, ride none--whatever floats anyone's boat. I expect that there would be a lot of riders who would be excited to ride this with the BLM's blessing. But who knows--this might get nowhere, and I'll be doing an ITT next spring.

At best you will get shut down by the BLM.  At worst you will shake the hornet's nest and FSU for other events on BLM administered lands.  You need to do a shitload of research before approaching the BLM.  Know what you are doing - right now it's pure speculation on your part.  Get informed. 

For starters, the BLM will tell you that to run an organized event you must have event insurance.  That right there is a deal killer for no-entry fee events.

Folks have already tried to do what you are talking about.  Tickets were handed out, courts were involved.  There were no clear winners.  It's a stalemate right now, but that balance will be tipped if some greenhorn goes poking the hornet nest.

[pbasinger]

There is no more Kokopelli Trail Race. Sometimes a handful of people get together and time trial it, even alternating directions and starting at midnight as per the traditional race. But there is no organized event.

Earlier this summer, I toured the route over two days. It was a beautiful trip and I was able to see most of it, thanks to minimal night riding. I'd highly recommend this approach. :-)

We did have a race this year and last.   Just post your email on the forum and I'm sure the right people wil contact you.

[Done]

I think the point is that there is no more organized racing. Sure, a few buddies get out there and ride together--but it's not an event any more than a bunch of guys from the office deciding to meet up after work. Probably good to keep it that way, unless the BLM is willing to sanction something more official. If that doesn't work out, I'd love to meet up with some people sometime--but we'll see what transpires between now and then. If the BLM doesn't want to talk about it, then an ITT sounds like fun too. 

[pbasinger]

No, actually the point is that it's organized more discreetly, but it is still organized like in years past.