Lights

[kaparzo]

Want to go lightweight with an LED light than I can safely ride at night with on the CT.  Would rather have batteries that can be resupplied (ie AA, AAA).  Thinking the princeton tec eos...would like to stay under $100.  Thanks for any help!

[Endurance Junkie]

I say go with the EOS, it's great light system for the buck.
You can pick two up for right around 100.00
I've been running them for 9 months and have no complaints(one on the bar one on the helmet) 

[Marshal]

Lots & Lots of LED light options out there.

I like http://www.dinottelighting.com/ stuff

[riverfever]

Another vote for the Dinotte lights.

[dkahern1958]

+1 dinotte.  I have been using them for a year and a half (mostly road but a fair bit of long distance MTB) and they have worked great.  Spare batteries are reasonably priced.  Customer service is second to none.  They MAKE SURE you are taken care of.

[Endurance Junkie]

The dinotte's are great lights if you can afford them, but if you want the most bang for the buck, go with EOS.

I'm not sure they even carry anything in your price range?   (under 100.00)

[FeloniousDunk]

I had about the same criteria for lights as you.  And after getting a lot of input on this thread about lighting   http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,19.0.html a while back, I went with an EOS on the helmet and lucked on a like-new PT Corona Bike for my bar at a gear swap for $30.  Great combo for $75!  Cruising around in the rain, night after night for an investment of $75 has totally gotten me over the feeling of inadequacy when I show up for group night rides and everyone else has their bear blinding laser beams strapped to their heads 

Of course, we're talking bikepacking lights here, not hauling the mail on tech downhill. Oh, and 8 batteries in the Corona seems a bit much but the price was right 

[DaveH]

Want to go lightweight with an LED light than I can safely ride at night with on the CT.  Would rather have batteries that can be resupplied (ie AA, AAA).  Thinking the princeton tec eos...would like to stay under $100.  Thanks for any help!

I'll never understand why the Eos is so popular when there are so many superior alternative out there.  The Eos is old LED technology - dim and not that efficient compared to the newer Q5s (or better).

Fenix makes some great flashlights that run on 2 AAs.  Here's one:  http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=362.  You can get this flashlight plus a helmet mount for under $100 and have anough light to ride with confidence.

[Pivvay]

There is a new EOS II Dave, that's what I've been using. It's not the best tech but it's *cheap*, works well enough for me on "medium" setting and lasts for a long time on 3 AAA lithiums during a race. When I need more light (CTR, AZT, etc) a AA powered light is required though, the EOS is just backup and for illuminating my GPS and other such tasks.

It also has a great form factor. It velcros right into helmet vents, is totally waterproof and folds up during the day. I'm not saying I'd be opposed to an "upgraded" EOS but they totally have it nailed in many ways and I've been happy enough to just leave it always on the helmet.

[bmike-vt]

i'm new to the bikepacking... and brushing up my mtb skills for hopefully a first overnighter shakedown this fall.
i come at this from the randonneuring side of road riding - mixed in with plenty of dirt / gravel / mixed terrain on skinny tires here in vt.

no dyno hubs for the bikepackers? the new LEDs are fab and throw a ton of light. no bats to worry about other than your headlamp.
are you using the eos and other hiking style lamps as primary lights? or mixing it with a bar / fork mount?

[DaveH]

no dyno hubs for the bikepackers? the new LEDs are fab and throw a ton of light. no bats to worry about other than your headlamp.
are you using the eos and other hiking style lamps as primary lights? or mixing it with a bar / fork mount?

Dyno's consume power, as in pedal power.  I'm not familiar with dyno systems these days...when I was a kid I had one that ran on the side of a tire and put out feeble light.  You could noticeably feel the bike slow when it was on.  I could see where they could consume as much as 10% of a riders power at night, that's considerable.  Since this is the "Ultra Racing" forum that's prolly not acceptable to most here.  They do seem to get quite a bit of use in the UK where there is (from what I gather) a lot more folks commuting in the dark.

I'd be curious to know what options exist for dyno powered lights.  I'd assume a reliable system would need a battery and the dyno would charge the battery, not run the lights per se.  Otherwise you'd be in the dark while hike a biking or in camp.  So, it's still probably a heavier alternative, and if it's a hub solution it would likely be a lot heavier.

[bmike-vt]

i've used the SON and various versions of schmidt lights for 24 and 30 hour+ randonneuring events.
yes, you will be in the dark when you stop pedaling... (after the standlight quits) so i run a low powered long burn minimal headlamp for cue reading, sign reading, navigation, mechanicals, etc.

i had a version of the SON for disc brakes, just curious more than anything as to what the bikepackers use.

10% is very high for power consumption.
the SON and new shimano hubs are very efficient...

[Pivvay]

Any idea on the efficiency? I think Shelman was running a dyno hub?

[Marshal]

some current dyno info..........

bmike-vt got me thinking, here is good link I found (lots of fun reading and bike packing/tour type info by peter)
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/lightingsystems.htm

also I seem to remember that Deanna Adams, 2009 TD racer used one of these http://www.copycatsolar.com/

 every dyno link under the sun seems to live here http://www.nscl.msu.edu/~daniel/regulator.html#lgtlnk

[Marshal]

Dyno's consume power, as in pedal power.  I'm not familiar with dyno systems these days...when I was a kid I had one that ran on the side of a tire and put out feeble light.  You could noticeably feel the bike slow when it was on.  I could see where they could consume as much as 10% of a riders power at night, that's considerable.  Since this is the "Ultra Racing" forum that's prolly not acceptable to most here.  They do seem to get quite a bit of use in the UK where there is (from what I gather) a lot more folks commuting in the dark.


I'd be curious to know what options exist for dyno powered lights.  I'd assume a reliable system would need a battery and the dyno would charge the battery, not run the lights per se.  Otherwise you'd be in the dark while hike a biking or in camp.  So, it's still probably a heavier alternative, and if it's a hub solution it would likely be a lot heavier.

At 15 km/h (10 miles/hr) only 0.5 Watt is lost, see chart & more watts lost info here http://www.baldurdash.org/OtherStuff/www.nabendynamo.de/detail.htm

[bmike-vt]

on my rando rig i'm currently running the SON with eDeluxe LED light with batt tailights. i don't ride with a powermeter so it would be hard for me to tell you what type of wattage i might be losing to the hub... but it is minimal if one is to believe all the data floating around - and while on the bike there is no feeling of resistance like the bottle dynamos (i have a bottle dyno on our family cargo bike)

to clarify - i was poking around to see what folks are using and why i don't see many dyno's on bikepacking or adventure racing rigs. for a 3-5 day ride i don't think a dyno would be essential - batts could be carried and swapped as necessary - but for something like the divide or an extended tour (racing or not) i think a dyno coupled with some of the new charging technologies could be useful.

some charging options (for GPS, cell, etc.)

busch and muller


tout terrain 'the plug' (integrates with 1 1/8" steerer tube)

b+m ride and charge this charges AAs that fit into a B+M Ixon light. i use an ixon for around town - great burn time on the bats. i don't have the ride and charge unit - but could see using it coupled with the dyno to recharge batteries for GPS, camera, etc.

[DaveH]

At 15 km/h (10 miles/hr) only 0.5 Watt is lost, see chart & more watts lost info here http://www.baldurdash.org/OtherStuff/www.nabendynamo.de/detail.htm

That is under no load - so what you'd be giving up in the daytime.  Not much. 

Based on those charts it looks like efficiency is roughly 50% and power output is capped at 3W.  5-6 W drain.  That is significant for racing, especially if riding at elevation where aerobic power takes a nosedive.  I run out of watts above 10k'

With the SON I'd want to know beforehand:
- what kind of lights are available
- is there any battery charging option instead of directly running the lights?
- does that slight drag on the front wheel affect bike handling in techy terrain?
- what is system weight?

Obstacles to overcome for the bikepacker:
- added complexity (if things break)
- added weight - this is a biggie.  I've designed and built quite a few lightsystems, some specifically for bikepacking (more on that in a bit) and in that process of researching batteries learned that there is no energy source with better mAh/kg than disposable lithiums.  They are so much better than rechargeables (by weight) it's rediculous.  Every multi-day race of interest has at least 1 metric ton of climbing, grams add up...
- poor light at low speeds or stopped.  I think my average speed in CTR was 4 mph...

So, back to the question of what we *do* use.

Bikepackers have widely varying  light needs.  Younger eyes do a lot better at night that older ones.  Us "old farts" use a lot more light, but lucky for us it's pretty lightweight these days.  AA powered dinotte systems are good.  The first round of systems I developed are discussed here:  http://teamhealthfx.com/blogs/dave_harris/archive/2007/01/17/2269.aspx.  Some riders use small/simple lights like the Eos.  Some use LED flashlights mounted to helmet and/or bars.

In CTR this year I used a set of Ayups on the bars and an LED flashlight on my helmet.  The combined output potential was over 500 lumens although I never used that much.  The Ayups were driven by a bFlex set to 350mA (with 5 levels available up to that 350mA setting) and an 8 pack of lithium AAs - they lasted the entire event.  The flashlight is a Fenix model, it is in the product review sections of this site.  I changed the batteries once during CTR in the flashlight.

[bmike-vt]

there are battery charging options coming online this year, that do not require running the lights to charge.
weight could be a downer. the SON i have on the roadie rig adds enough to the front - but doesn't affect handling for most dirt / gravel / fast road descents that i've done at night, at speed.

light selection is growing - and the new generation of LEDs is impressive.
both german made - the eDeluxe, e3 (in symmetrical and asymmetrical beam pattern), and a mtb specific e3 triple (and lots of lower end LEDs and halogens, etc.) here's a comparison page of dyno driven lights.

looking at batteries and thinking about the info you posted - sure, it looks like disposable bats make sense.
for me, i'm a fan of generating my own power and only using rechargeable bats as needed in the headlamp and tailight (which run forever). this may change as i venture into bikepacking. initially i don't think i'll need much light - aside from camp. i'm a few light years away from considering a 'race'.

coming from multi day road events i see a mix of bat systems and dyno systems. our fleche team (24 hour point to point ride) was 2/3 dyno driven. the dyno systems don't seem to slow pbp, bmb, and other 1200k finishers down much - after several nights riding through the night - often with plenty of climbing (road climbing, not singletrack i realize).

my eDeluxe comes up to full brightness at walking speed. slower and it flickers a bit. it is bike mounted, so walking i'd flip on the headlamp to navigate / walk.


i'm not trying to sell anyone on the system - just learning about the differences in tech.
thanks for the input. i saw the ayup in action as another fleche team had a rider (i think he posts here) running a system. impressive for sure.

[phil_rad]

I just put a Supernova E-3 Triple on my cyclocross bike, I use it to commute to work. The E-3 Triple is super bright, it runs off a dynamo-hub from shimano, or you could use a SON. I haven't noticed any power loss with the dynamo-hub. My average speed is the same as it was before.  I will use the light for future bikepacking trips, with my mtb of course. I'll let you all know how it works. Here is the web site from supernova: http://www.supernova-lights.com/en/e3_triple.html

[DaveH]

Now that is a good looking light!  550 lumens from a dynamo - that's a lot of light.  Plus, a dynamo is a lot cheaper than all the rechargable batteries I've invested in...

It drops down to one LED at/below 8mph.  While I like the concept of more light at speed, I'm not so sure the light would offer sufficient light at low speeds in the techy stuff.  Any comments on that aspect?