Purism

[ElijahGOFAR]

Riding the TDR is pure joy.

[Marshal]

I might be reading more into your post than is really there but you are so off base regarding what a TDR ‘purest’ is as to be almost comical. 

A TDR ‘purest’ is one who endeavors to get from Banff to AW in the shortest time possible while rigorously adhering to all written (and spirit of) rules.  IE: if you are racing to the best of your ability, within the rules, you are a purest.

In this sense the true TDR purest will make hotel use, food choices, gear choices etc etc based on what is most advantageous to their finish time. 

In Short:
A TDR purest makes permissible camp, food and gear choices that contribute to the best finish time achievable.


NOTE:
On the other hand, making deliberate choices that produce slower finish times is very acceptable for a variety of reasons!  And in the end we all get to do the TDR the way we want. 

[Marshal]

Lots of participants in multi-day, self-supported races want to change the rules to fit their personal outlook. 

Bottom line is you, just like anyone else could create your own event, with your own rule set. 

Best of luck with your TDR experience (however you choose to do it)!

[bmike-vt]

Why not bike repair? An Eagle Scout should have a welding rig with them at all times, right? And a spare chain, cables, grips, pedals, bearings, etc.

Seriously. Because you buy food at a fast food joint that's somehow less 'pure'?

The infrastructure of the western world allows us to participate in such events. A purist wouldn't have these forums to troll for tips and tricks and even a GPX file that you yourself didn't come up with on your own.

RYOR and let others RTOR. If it falls within the spirit And even in some cases the letter of the generally accepted rules, then it's good.

If not, feel free to hunt for your food along the way.

[Woodland]

Give FatGuy a break, he has some points. However, it sounds more like the Unsupported vs. Self-Supported discussion.

Hotels and fast food are less pure - these are backcountry (mostly) adventures after all. Not saying I haven't indulged.

I prefer doing ITT's over the Group Starts because I feel they are more pure, and that I am truly self-supported when things get rough. I don't have the group to rely on for company when things get quiet and lonely, or other racers to vent to and share stories and camp with at night, etc, etc. (I have been in all those situations for the record)

Just going fast within the given rule set is not pure, that is just conformity. There is room to wiggle here, by doing ITT's, by skipping hotels, by mailing all your food ahead - that is all still within most rule sets, yet more pure.

But what is pure? You can hit a perfect golf shot that feels so pure you hardly felt it strike the club, but the guy next to you can shank it, hit a tree, hit the cart path and bounce closer to the hole than you.

[Adam Alphabet]

Not to get into the whole 'purist' debate as I've never bike pack raced but it's well documented that many people choose to set their own challenges within the outlined rules of these type of races. Take James-O as one example...

http://www.jonesbikes.com/?option=com_wordpress&lang=en&p=3071&Itemid=58

Did it his way (and within the outlined rules) and he still ripped a super fast time on the route.

No better or worse, just his way.
Each their own.

All the best to everyone toeing the line this year, however you choose to tackle it...Can't wait to follow you guys and gals along the route again.

[Marshal]

Sorry if I upset you Marshal, I hear how strongly you feel about this. Im really just chatting this topic for fun, no harm intended.

hee hee --see what you started (this stuff always comes up just before a big multi-day--makes for some nice distraction)

Anyway--I am in no way offended.  

However you did toss out some hot button words and disagreeable implications; I just tried to offer a contrasting/restrained viewpoint of TDR racing purism.  

I like to think about what is important to me and my approach.  And I also am interested in and very tolerant of contrasting styles and viewpoints.  It’s great to read about the adventures others have when they add additional handicaps to their arriving in AW in a timely manner. So, I got to ask—are you going to camp out every night and carry/cook freeze dried meals so as to achieve your concept of purism?

If anyone wants know how I plan to approach my 2014 attempt you can find it in my blog in the less fear post.  

oh, and how pure can one be after 20 days in the dirt

[dream4est]

A writer said he was gonna do a story on me in the AZT because he heard I was a "purist". After the initial interview, I never heard back from him.

Guess I aint pure enough.

[Marshal]

Give FatGuy a break, he has some points. However, it sounds more like the Unsupported vs. Self-Supported discussion.

Hotels and fast food are less pure - these are backcountry (mostly) adventures after all. Not saying I haven't indulged.

I prefer doing ITT's over the Group Starts because I feel they are more pure, and that I am truly self-supported when things get rough. I don't have the group to rely on for company when things get quiet and lonely, or other racers to vent to and share stories and camp with at night, etc, etc. (I have been in all those situations for the record)

Just going fast within the given rule set is not pure, that is just conformity. There is room to wiggle here, by doing ITT's, by skipping hotels, by mailing all your food ahead - that is all still within most rule sets, yet more pure.

But what is pure? You can hit a perfect golf shot that feels so pure you hardly felt it strike the club, but the guy next to you can shank it, hit a tree, hit the cart path and bounce closer to the hole than you.

I understand your sentiment but politely disagree with your logic. A TDR purist tends to conform to what achieves their best personal finish time.

Think about TDR finish times as omelets and the TDR specific rule set as the recipe for said omelets.  As long as we reach AW while following the TDR recipe (with any/all allowed variations for individual taste) we can claim we made a TDR omelet.

But by definition the TDR is a ITT race (with a GD). 
And like it or not, as a group we recognize the fastest finish times (overall, SS, Female etc) as being the superior omelets. 

On the other hand as individuals we tend to focus on our personal omelets.  In this regard the non-conformist may be more interested in the ‘taste’ of their omelet.  Many times these non-conformists arbitrarily tack on unnecessary but allowed recipe ingredients (handicaps), ie: maybe they like the taste of extra effort-cheese in their omelet at the expense of a superior finish time.  It needs to be strongly noted here that imo the TDR would be a much duller place without these non-conforming mavericks.  (ah yes, gota love those entertaining TDR rebels)

So from my point of view it’s the TDR purist who follows, or conforms to, the most efficient personal recipe while racing to achieve that perfect yet never achievable ‘best time’ TDR omelet.

But now I have to go for that ride (you know the one--the one where someone always chimes in about now and cries out—hey, just go ride your bike)

[JosiahM]

I mean in the sense of "SELF SUPPORTED", which to me means NOT taking unnecessary assistance or advantage, i.e. hotels or someone to cook and clean dishes for you. Who really wants to eat crap for 2800 miles? This is a personal challenge not a sponsored race even though people are being sponsored. The challenge isn't the speed its the endurance of all that the trail unveils. Are us TDR racers bike packing the TDR or hotel hopping the TDR? How do you determine the quality of your TDR? IDK I'm not arguing but just trying to add some food for thought. Maybe Im an idiot but after years of being an Eagle scout, hotels are for wimps. I feel the rules should be changed to "If you don't mail it to yourself, carry it on your bike, or buy it on the actual trail, it should be taboo(sans bike repair). I just seems so cushy as it is now.

did eagle scouts camp out for 25+ days straight with no shower while working up a sweat all day every day? I'm pretty sure if they did, then they would have no quarrel with someone wanting to get a room and take a shower at some point to get 2-3 weeks worth of grime off of their skin.
I've never ridden the divide as I have one of those jobs that I can't get away from for 4 weeks at a time, but IMHO, there are some great people who are out there trying to have the experience of their lifetime.  and for some people, the experience of a lifetime involves them having a warm place to sleep every few days and picking up a warm meal as they roll through town.  Why would you want to make these people feel bad about making the best of their adventure.  Remember all the sacrifices that all these individuals (and their loved ones) have made in order to be out there living THEIR dream.... so don't try to make them feel bad about it when they do it.
also note that the people who are indulging in the luxuries are not the people contending for titles or speed records or anything of the sort.  They are just great people having fun doing what they love.
With that said, those people are riding the ride they have sacrificed so much to be able to ride, and so can you.  you can ride the ride in whatever fashion you want to ride it.  if you feel the need to carry 4 weeks worth of food from the start to stay pure and camp along side a dirt road every night, than by all means you should do that(I don't suggest carrying that much weight though).  Don't worry about what other people are doing. You will actually be faster without getting hotel because a hotel night usually means a 10 hour night.
Have fun out there everyone.  I'll be watching the colored dots.

[JosiahM]

technically, wouldn't mailing stuff to yourself be "pre-planned support" which would be against the code of the purist form of bikepacking, right?  haha.  I think you could basically interpret the rules to so great of a degree which would make it impossible to even do the ride without breaking the rules as interpreted.  Good thing we don't have UCI out there enforcing rules. LOL
I donno that carrying extra stuff makes you a softie. I choose a more minimalist approach to bikepacking not because I am tough, but because I am too much of a softie to carry all the weight.

[JosiahM]

FYI all my rambling should be taken with a grain of salt and lots of tequila. Shits and giggles my fellow riders.

I think the original question is a great one.  I often wonder what is the most self reliant any one person has been out there.  it certainly should not be enforced that every rider ride a certain way, but we can wonder how "pure" is the "purist" anyone has every ridden the route.  I tend to think the fastest finish times are associated with the people who did it with the least unnecessary amenities (who needs a bed if you don't sleep).  This is for 2 reasons.  Those luxuries usually come at a cost of time penalty.  Also, the longer the ride, the more difficult it is to go without all those things we take for granted in our daily lives.  the fastest guy will be at a hotel after finishing in 2 weeks whereas some people will only be halfway done by then.

[Done]

Doing something hard is good. Raising the bar is even better.

[fastmtnbiker33w]

It's easier for me to go under high bars.  It's harder for me to limbo.  Let's lower the bar.

[Done]

It's easier for me to go under high bars.  It's harder for me to limbo.  Let's lower the bar.

Limbo vs high jumping? Both are good. It's the guys who get confused about which bar is for which that irritate me.

[the tortoise]

And how "pure" is it to edit your original post so it confuses the readers of the topic?? I don't think some people will be happy unless they turn it into a crucifixion, and usually they are the armchair quarterbacks!

[Done]

And how "pure" is it to edit your original post so it confuses the readers of the topic?? I don't think some people will be happy unless they turn it into a crucifixion, and usually they are the armchair quarterbacks!

Yep, if you're going to take a position, you've gotta be tough enough to withstand the fury of the critics.

[megand]

I'm pretty sure that anyone who turns up to the start with any kind of bike or gear can't be said to be a purist.  You need to fashion all equipment from natural items found as you start your journey down the trail.  Naked. 

[Marshal]

Humm, I think original poster (being new to the forum?) just wanted to have a spirited conversation pre-TDR.  

I suspect he had no idea how many many many….times this particular topic has been picked over thru the years.  

Hey--OP made me ‘think’ hard again about my personal motives, not a bad thing as I tend to get blinders on in my thinking.

Anyway I did have that ride I mentioned—my last hard pre-TDR ride--see spot—TDR route around Silver City is so nice after dark with zero traffic etc

All is good………….

[the tortoise]

And Toby certainly has had positions and the flak that positions entail! But regardless of how pure anyone is, I would think for most the TD is a life changing experience.