Racing or Riding the TD?

[elitheknife]

Perhaps 'overwhelming' was a bit strong, I'll go with 'significant'.  

As a mountain biker in Banff, I consider myself lucky to have the few trails that we do have.  In most National Parks in the US, mountain biking is illegal, from what I understand.  I would hate the reputation of mountain biking, and therefore the legality of riding a bike on National Park trails, to be tainted by a single annual event.  Am I projecting a bit?  Probably, but it does come to mind from time to time. 

I agree that the Grand Depart has a certain competitive motivation that lacks in an ITT.  I think this is where Toby's ideas have some good merit.
 
I want to see the TD continue as much as anyone...but I am worried about next year.

Scott

[DaNM]

I want to lay out some reasons for a staggered start and maybe get a few takers.
  An ITT should  not be head to head, one would be measuring the other daily, leave that for the short track.  
  Those going for a course record should not do all the post holing.  Unlike NASCAR, the fast riders should go last for the equal advantage thru the snow.
  If one wants camaraderie get out there first, break trail have a story to tell when the faster riders pass you a week into it. A day or two into it you won`t see anybody anyways. Slower riders might get out there early and have some comfort knowing you are within the group. Maybe that will motivate instead of being last and entering the touring mode.

  This is an ITT, when someone else says "go" is not the ideal start time, it might be raining or maybe you have to take a dump. Maybe it conflicts with work, travel or some other stress, its not what your there for. Say "go" when you darn well feel like it.
 
 Ambassadorship is a big one.  If it started at the boarder it might even be funny, but the National Park is bound to make a stir no one wants.  Preserve the mystique of the "race" and surprise us.
 
 Part of the unwritten rules are to preserve the event for the future. Leave no trace. Collectively the footprint is getting interesting.
  
 Enjoy the ride people.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

[jhl99]

Some miscellaneous fragments:

*In a very loose way, the TD is like a Rainbow Family Gathering... the organization has no official command and control structure... You get what you get. 

*The biggest problem with 100 starters is that is way too many for those of us at home to track and follow along on the internet

*Anyone remember RAAM in the mid 1980's?  There where like 10 solo entries, now the the whole thing looks like its own industry.  Could the TD follow suit?

*Media attention:  not always a good thing.

[cadetb1973]

In the early 1990s, a guy named Prentice Steffen, an emergency room physician at St. Mary’s Medical Center in San Francisco, left his day job to work with a newly formed cycling team.  The new squad was mostly a group of disbanded members from the Subaru-Montgomery road racing team looking for work, and in 1996, they caught a lucky break:  a slot for a U.S. team needed to be filled in the European pro peloton. 

That year, those nine rookies to “the show” were demoralized by their European counterparts, and Dr. Steffen recalls how much they suffered, especially during the Tour de Suisse:  “For one tough mountain stage, I was in the second team car, covering our guys who were dropped . . . My job was to jump out of the car and push [them] as far as I could.  It was against the rules, but [they] had nothing left.  After pushing [them] for a bit I would stop, jump back in the car, drive ahead, and I’d be ready to push [them] again as [they] came by.  I kept that up for as long as I could, and man, I got a serious workout that day.” 

This was the U.S. Postal Service’s first year on the European scene:  nine started the 1996 Tour de Suisse, and only three finished (Darren Baker, Andy Hampsten, and Marty Jemison).
Nobody—pro, amateur, or weekend warrior—is naturally capable of handling the agony of racing a grand tour flat-out on their first attempt, and certainly not the Tour Divide Race.  (If I remember right, didn’t it take Matthew Lee thirty days to finish his first-go?).

I will say that the growing pains of the TDR are becoming eerily similar to the Tour de France.  In 1903, Henry Desgrange—who came up with the Tour de France to sell more copies of his newspaper, Le’Auto—had only fifteen brave souls enter.  So what did he do to attract more riders?  Simple.  He changed the date of the start!  July 1st coincided with the completion of planting season, as most adventurous riders couldn’t afford to take off work from their fields and factories.  Desgrange also upped the ante and chipped in compensation, covering riders’ expenses for what they’d be paid in their factory jobs.  By the start of July 1st, 1903, nearly 80 riders had signed up.

It seems that for years, the TDR has kept a lid on itself until the recent success of the documentary Ride the Divide and Paul Howard’s memoir.  More people are throwing their name in the hat because technology and word-of-mouth is getting it out there, and I don’t think it’s because people are doing it for a “party ride.”

Over the past several weeks, through email, I’ve become acquainted with the other riders from Texas who have signed up for this year’s Tour Divide Race (I'm voicing this on my own, and I hope they'll let me speak on their behalf, as well as any other "groups" from other states or countries).  I assure you that we didn’t get drunk over a keg, throw up a toast and proclaim, “Let’s do this for the hell of it!”  We do not actually know each other, and heaven forbid, have not done any convincing to drag another poor soul into Hell (er, well, in our case, the Arctic!).  We all work for a living, have spent valuable chunks of time from our savings accounts and vacation calendars to attempt this thing, and for absolutely no prize or compensation at the end, if we make it.  For us, it’s anything besides a rolling party.

And since social impacts have come up, I think no matter how the TDR grows, how can it harm the U.S. Forest Service, which is in dire need of revenue?  And considering the state of our wrecked economy, I can't imagine shop owners complaining about us leaving a trail of lettuce along the way when they know we're going to fork over lots of it to keep ourselves alive, especially since oil is at record highs and most families will be keeping their SUVs parked this summer, as oil is predicted to climb higher still. 

Some years ago, I watched black and white footage of Eddy Merckx in a late 60’ish, maybe very early 70’ish Tour.  During each day’s stage, the peloton would collaboratively decide upon a village as a feed zone, and when they rolled into town, dismounted, and clip-clopped into the shops, the owners were honored, some to the point of weeping.  It was a reverent act for the riders to ransack the joint, cramming loaves of bread, meat, and cheese down the front of their jerseys and stuffing bottles of wine in their rear pockets, replacing water bottles.

Who knows what the Tour Divide Race will morph itself into within the coming years.  Maybe decades from now, those of us pioneering this thing will end up as one of those black & white posters with spare tires around our necks, toting bottles of wine and French loaves in our jerseys, and lighting cigarettes our suffering comrades.  Even those primitive Tour riders who Norman Maclean, the famous Montana native, would say “were as tough as their axe handles,” didn’t take themselves too seriously.

[phil_rad]

This is a great thread!

I totally understand where JP is coming from; because I think I'm one of the people that he's talking about. Last year I made a stab at the TDR and bailed on day seven in Helena Mt.

I was not prepared. Although I scoured the net and this site for twelve months leading up to the race. I looked at other peoples kits, read reviews here on gear and made my kit decisions that way. Some of my designs were good most were not. I learned the hard way.

I did go out a couple times and test the stuff; even did a century! I thought I was prepared....

When I arrived in Banff, I had a funny feeling feeling of being in over my head. Needless to say after six days and one thousand miles ( the most I've ever done in that time frame) I threw in the towel. Mental weakness was the reason but it was also good that I stopped because I had pinched a nerve in my right hand. The Doc. said later that if I had continued the damage would have been permanent. It's 100% again, I also have feeling in my toes too! ;-)

Yeah, I was a complete greenhorn; bit off more than I could chew. I thought "That's it, I'm not cut out for these things". When I got home, after a couple of weeks I started day dreaming about how I could get rid of the stinking backpack and lightening up my kit. I spent a lot of time thinking about it. I wrote down my thoughts, made a few orders and volla! no more backpack, every thing is on the bike or it stays at home.

Since last fall I've been practicing with my kit, trying new gear. I've pretty much got it dialed in. I feel now more confident that I can go the distance. But I'm going to give myself more time.

This year my goal is a shorter, closer to home multi-day self-supprt race; the Grenzstein Trophy. It follows the former inner German border. This will be the test for me to see if I really want to do these things. Also if I have mentally what it takes to finish.

A lot can happen in one year and I hope that all goes well and that on June 8th 2012 I'll be once again in Banff, Alberta to toe the line with all you good people.

Even though I can relate to where JP is coming from; I personally would recommend anyone that wants to do this and that thinks they can do it, to do it! ;-) Life can go by so quick, you've have to realise your dreams.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Phil
 

[rhino]

...As I mentioned, don't want to see this common date disappear. It is very fun to watch the racers race and everyone pays attention to them but when it comes to the touring (back of the pack) person, honestly, other then the people that know them follow them. Yep, a bit harsh but true.

We take this as a compliment.

www.backofthepackracing.com

[krefs]

I've been giving all this quite a bit of thought. It's a tough one, because I love seeing all these people getting out, bikepacking, and having grand adventures no matter how fast they're going. It's such a dramatic temporary change of lifestyle that is refreshing and exhilarating to experience, and hearing about how the TD has literally altered some participants' entire outlook on life. On the other hand, we're all free to go out and tour or race the GDMBR at any time we want, but the common start date clearly brings out a large number of riders that probably would never (for better or for worse) start such an endeavor on their own. In past years, the relatively small number of TD participants has meant that there's no problem having both focused racers and others more set on fast touring and seeing how far they can get after admittedly inadequate training and preparation.

But when the sheer number of riders less focused on 'racing' (whatever that means to each one individually) and more focused on surviving or enjoying a social ride with other adventurous souls that show up in Banff grows to a certain level, they start negatively impacting those set on racing. I don't think the TD has reached that point yet, but it's close and will be evident in the first few days of the TD this year. Think of the women racing hard  who won't be able to get a hotel room in bear country because they're filled by back-of-the-pack male riders (I'm expecting a dozen or more riders to pull out their cell phones on the start line and call ahead to reserve rooms, since doing so ahead of time is clearly a violation of TD rules). Or the numerous underprepared riders that will push hard in the first few days, competing with other better-prepared riders for limited goods in the tiny resupply points and bike shops along the northern end of the route, only to drop out somewhere in MT. These issues haven't come to fruition yet, but thinking about the long-term growth of the event, one must consider the impact of participants setting out with the intent of riding the TD rather than racing it (no matter their speed). I definitely have a pessimistic view on this growth, but the Tour Divide, after all, is a race.

There are a lot of stern-sounding introspective questions posed by TD vets in this thread. I think Aiden's is one of the most important to consider - Can you make it through a week of 16-plus-hour days in the saddle (and highly variable weather conditions)? If this is your serious intention and you are confident you can do so, then you have the right attitude, appropriate physical preparation, and you're ready to race. If you are really questioning whether this is possible, or if you're plan is to start and see how far you can ride in the first couple days and go from there, racing is out of the question - your goal is simply survival, and that is not going to be an enjoyable way to experience the TD.

[Done]

Here's a question for the TD vets who are concerned that too many unqualified riders will show up in 2011: In you opinion, what percentage of racers should not have started in 2010 because they simply weren't ready?

[krefs]

Toby, I'm not sure I'd say anyone shouldn't have started in 2010. While I hate to see riders throw in the towel early, I don't see any harm in anyone joining the group start as long as they don't have any negative impact on the rest of the field. I also forthcomingly acknowledge that riders can learn more from failure than success. It's not until the field grows past some critical size that I think any negative impacts will occur, and that's when riders need to really question whether or not they are sufficiently prepared to join in the group start.

[Done]

Kurt, I think that everyone agrees that too many riders (whatever that number may be) could jeopardize the TD and other similar rides. The question is how to limit the number of riders.

One approach is to "warn" people that the TD is really hard, and that unprepared riders who aren't ready to race shouldn't bother to show up. This is what you and others are doing to varying degrees and in varying styles. At the very least, this is confusing as hell, as the criteria is nebulous and often conflicting. I don't think that it'll work, and it comes across as being exclusionary--which isn't in keeping with ultra-racing's history.

Another approach is to limit the size of the start pack by having multiple starts. This one is more clear-cut, and deals with the issues without necessitating cut-off criteria, putting people on the defensive, etc. Maybe not ideal, but at least it's inclusive and welcoming.

I suppose that the TD could become more organized, and have carefully-defined cut-off criteria. Certainly lots of precedents to follow in this regard. Effective, but certainly not in keeping with the ultra-racing ethos that many have found so attractive. But at least it would be a concrete and well-defined way of limiting the size of the race. Not my first choice.

For now, I'm proposing that races that get too big simply add more start dates. And I'm challenging those who want to exclude people based on ethereal and ill-defined criteria phrased as Socratic questions.

[Jilleo]

Another approach is to limit the size of the start pack by having multiple starts. This one is more clear-cut, and deals with the issues without necessitating cut-off criteria, putting people on the defensive, etc. Maybe not ideal, but at least it's inclusive and welcoming.

Not a bad idea. Limit group starts to 30 or so people had have riders seed themselves based on how long they expect/hope to take to finish the course. <18 days starts on Friday at 10 a.m. 18-20 days on Saturday, 20-22 days on Sunday, 22-25 days on Monday, >25 days on Tuesday, or some variation therein. Keeps the entire group largely "together" in an event that can be followed at basically that same time, and allows the faster racers in each group front-of-the-pack advantages and also an opportunity to chase others, but eliminates several of the issues with group sizes exceeding legal limits, overcrowding at hotels, etc. There are at least a couple of food resupply spots that are listed on the maps that likely literally cannot meet the needs of 100+ hungry visitors in a week's time (Atlantic City, Wyo. comes to mind.) And of course most local bike shops on the route would still be overtaxed if the entire field does exceed 100 or 200 people. But for the most part staggered starts reduce a lot of the problems that have been brought up in this tread.

[THE LONG RANGER]

Rereading JayP's initial start of this thread, many of the questions are ones to ask yourself. It's a good barometer - if you can't be honest with yourself, this course looks like a big DNF. I, like many in this thread that are lining up this year (I'm betting), took everything JayP said to heart, coming from a true veteran in so many ways/shapes/forms - if only looking at this course alone. It's a good wake up call. JayP - you are one to be looked up to, your attitude is ace.

I think it's good to remember that humans are not well-equipped to cognitively understand distances this large. It's easy to look at a map and go, "no sweat! (well, maybe a little)", it's quite another to have "view" the information at 1:1 scale, the ETA measured in weeks and the means being a bicycle.

If someone, even in this year's running goes, "WHOA! Was Not Ready!" and bails, I'm not going to personally fault them, that's for sure - I'll commend them for taking a chance, if it's anything like my own chance, it's coming with a huge investment in time, money and a gigantic strain everything else in my life - with absolutely no guarantees that bad luck won't hit on day #1 and dash all this work. There's parts of this course I'm personally and sincerely scared of and there's parts I'm more or less custom-made to blunder about in by my wits alone, while singing a song.

But, what I'm not prepared to do any more (really) is prove to anyone else I'll be ready to race in June.  I don't want qualifiers, I don't want categories. One of the master strokes when masterminding this race was the Letter of Intent, where you know, I stated my intentions (I think I even put a personal goal of days). I can't be any clearer, ja? But what was most important about writing, and rewriting the LOI (for me), was doing the double and triple-check that this is what I wanted to do. If my LOI was simply, "BOOZE CRUISE!", I'd probably save the bother and just join the local Tuesday cruiser group. Denver's got great beer  

Anyways, I can't wait to meet everyone for real - especially all the unknowns that haven't really made a public peep to anyone. I am super optimistic that there's going to be a great line up of super-ready, super-positive people, willing to work with the resources of the race course and agree upon the best way to get it done. I'm having a hard time thinking that this race really truly and honestly attracts a, "me too" crowd when so much physical and mental pain and discomfort is involved, for such a long time. Really. I think the character that finds this type of adventure attractive has a mindset to also race it while being honest with their own abilities in check. (Or, maybe I"m wrong, it's not like I hang out at ultra-enduro events psycho-analyzing anyone)

[Marshal]

I have been hesitant to comment on JayP’s original post and a lot of the responses.  A lot in this thread I simply do not like, but I am not going to go there.

However, first and foremost I say in till we see in writing the definitive, official, governmental statement on max start size and perhaps also a statement about multiple start times/days we are all just speculating and perhaps just hoping for a sustainable outcome.

Second I will offer my opinion about ‘overwhelming’ small stores and bike shops with a large number of starters.  (With in reason and 100+ starters all on the same day at the same time is not even close to being too many for this route to handle)  This is a total non-issue and should not be part of the criteria for deciding group start size(s). 

Any food or lodging ‘problems’ from starting 100 + racers will naturally work itself out. No one will suddenly starve, no one will suddenly not be able to get a bike repaired that other wise would have been etc etc. 

Some racers might have to be adaptable and go all out and pack 2 extra power bars and an additional spare spoke.  And some racers might have to occasionally camp or buy a 2nd or 3rd choice food item(s).  But that would be about the extent of this small potatoes issue--for a racer who has prepared in such a way as to have a real chance of finishing.

[Done]

A few more thoughts:

1. If someone calls the small stores along the route a couple of weeks before an event and advises them that 100+ hungry two-wheeled locusts are about the descend, then I expect that they will be thrilled. They can stock up on all kinds of profitable goodies, and probably make more money in a week than they do all month (or maybe all summer). Manna from heaven, or a at least a decent summer bonus!

2. I'm still trying to figure out who all of the slackers are who need to heed the dire warnings being issued by many in this thread. Did a lot of people really show up in 2010 without a clue of how difficult the ride is? Did they watch Ride the Divide, and incorrectly deduce that the TD is nothing more than a trip to Disneyland? Does something about riding thousands of miles through sometimes hellish conditions inherently attract clueless wimps who have no idea what to expect? Did slow--but very inspiring--guys like the Mountain Turtle somehow diminish the event because they are were determined by some to be too slow to be "fun to watch." OK, I wasn't out there in 2010, so I really have no idea what I'm talking about; so educate me: what percentage of 2010 riders shouldn't have been out there. Further, how many people planning for 2011 really need the kind of unsolicited "don't show up unless you have really hairy balls like me" advice that's being thrown around?

[Jilleo]

I personally don't care about the chest-thumping going on here and there; the Tour Divide isn't that hard. ;-) But I do think the size of the group is a legitimate concern. Under current regulations, legal group size is limited to 10 people in BNP, which has obviously been exceeded since the beginning. These regulations were obviously written for people who both travel and camp together; there's no precedent for a race. However, there are rumors among people in the community — friends of mine and their friends who work in both Parks and tourism — that crackdown is possible, especially if some people in Parks decide this massive group of people flooding the Spray River Trail all at once might have a negative impact on the paying tourists at that very ritzy hotel next door. Could just be a rumor; I don't know. And of course there's no government-issued statement yet. But I don't believe this concern is baseless.

[elitheknife]

Thanks Jill.

[krefs]

Toby, I'm not sure why you're taking such offense at some of these comments. I don't think anyone has implied in any way that anyone who has shown up for the TD in the past has diminished the event. The Mountain Turtle was indeed inspiring, putting in long days, short nights, and racing just like almost everyone else. And like I stated, none of the problems I myself foresee with the dramatic growth of the event have even occurred yet! But given a number of inquiries I, as well as a handful of other veteran TD and ultra racers, have received, the Ride the Divide film really did inspire a new crop of TD-hopefuls, some of whom have never ridden appreciably in their lives. That being said, there's absolutely no reason in the world to discourage such individuals from taking on the TD, but I think it's of paramount importance to convey to them just how important it is to be as prepared as possible. If 200 riders showed up in Banff, all having put in big training hours and done all their route/gear/bike repair homework and all ready to push themselves as hard as they can (at whatever speed that might be), the route sure would be crowded and there would be some problems associated with that, but it wouldn't diminish the event in the slightest, and I'd be excited to watch the show.

Perhaps my mind is clouded by my, uh, "really hairy balls" as Toby so elegantly put it, but I don't see anything inappropriate about impressing upon potential TD racers what they are in for and to consider putting off the race for a year in order to sufficiently prepare, especially in coming years given concerns over the size of the traditional group start. I don't think its fair to those that are truly ready for the challenge to necessarily be forced to deal with a potentially less exciting group start format to accommodate a growing number of unprepared participants. I'll extract myself from this polarized discussion since I've stated my opinion on the matter. I'll close with a quote from the TD website, but take it with a grain of salt...Matthew mooned me in Silver City a couple years ago after he had won the 2009 race and I was nearing the finish, and his backside was pretty damn hairy.

"Many wonder if they're capable of such a true solo blitz. At some point there's an inevitable leap of faith into grand tour racing. One thing is for certain: 2-3 weeks of back-to-back 16-18 hour days in the saddle are certain to bring about changes in body, mind and equipment of even the world's most seasoned ultra-endurance althlete. Are you the type to roll easily with this painful transformation? How well do you suffer for days on end? Are you prone to depression? Can you be happy sleeping in the dirt as it rains all night? Does post-holing through thigh-deep snowdrifts over a 10,000-ft pass sound like fun? A robust Rockies winter + late spring can leave behind just such mid-June diversion on the GDMBR.

It's easy to be attracted to the romance and camaraderie of a 'shared' cross-country MTB adventure. The rugged Divide backcountry is not the place to learn solo 'racing' is not your speed or style. Are you a seasoned multi-day bikepacker? Have you ridden back-to-back off-road centuries? Are you an expert level mountain biker? Are you a veteran of Primal Quest-scale multi-day adventure races? Are you a proficient bike mechanic; skilled navigator; competent at self-rescue? If you cannot confidently answer yes to most of the above, it would be wise to consider simply touring the route or taking more time to prepare for a true blitz."

[Done]

Hi Kurt,

You win--your literal image of Matthew's hairy butt easily trumps my figurative eloquence! 

[BobM]

...massive group of people flooding the Spray River Trail all at once might have a negative impact on the paying tourists...

I know what you mean, Jill, but in fact that massive group of people is also composed of "paying tourists".  When I was up there last year I went to restaurants, bought stuff from bike shops, took a taxi, paid for lodging......

I cannot imagine that 100 or even 200 people on that trail in mid-July to mid-August would be unusual in the least and this group will clear the trail and be on the Smith-Dorrien in under 2 hours at the most.

[Jilleo]

Since when do government bureaucrats see reason? ;-) I'm only recounting some of the rumors I've heard. I have no official information so you can take it at its face value, which is to say, not worth much.