Sleep conditions for Tour Divide Race

[febikes]

What is your thoughts on a sleep strategy for Tour Divide Race?

I am exploring the idea of doing the event and trying to get a handle on what I will need for sleep system.

[Done]

There many different ways to sleep while racing. You might start by reading through the various personal setups that people have posted on this site (see link at the top of the page), and then ask specific questions.

[febikes]

Thanks!

I have been looking at some of the personal set ups and reading various rider write ups from TDR.

In particular my main concern is about the potential for hitting cold days.  I have a Army Surplus Goretex Bivy MSS system.  The army MSS system has a goretex bivy and then two sleeping bags.  The the bags can be used individual or combined.  Using just the light bag the system handles down to around 32 degrees.  For some warmer conditions I have used the goretex cover with a light weight down sleeping bag.  The goretext bivy is good if rain occurs and using the down bag is a lot lighter then the standard bag.  I generally use a car windshield reflector as a sleep pad.

My main question is how cold does it get on route in terms of conditions for sleeping.  I want to ride as light as possible and would be interested in how much insulation the fast guys carry for their sleep kits.

[DenisVTT]

My main question is how cold does it get on route in terms of conditions for sleeping.  

In altitude, it often gets right around or below freezing.

Most TD riders don't carry thermometers, but people often report frozen water in bottles in the morning. Even in the south, don't forget that you might be sleeping at 10,000 ft+.

This is Brazos Ridge, New Mexico, on the morning of June 16:

[caseygreene]

What's the weight on that setup? I've looked into those army sleeping systems in the past, but every one i found was crazy heavy n bulky.

[trebor]

The military systems are heavy and bulky. I own one. The outer gortex shell alone without any of the sleeping bags inside is close to 2.25 pounds. I modifiied mine by taking the zipper pulls off and removing the metal snaps - it still was 2 pounds. It also doesn't pack small.

Because it doesn't zip fully, only snaps around the head, it is not bug proof. Something to consider.

I slept (by mistake or lack of focus) on top of a ridge last year a couple of hours past Lincoln because I was too tired to go on... it dropped well into the 20's. I also slept just out side of Wise River DOWN OFF the mountain and awoke to a layer of ice over my gear. I think it got down to around 28* that night according to the locals.

These were early/mid June on TD last year.

I think it's probably just as important to think about where and how to sleep as it is to think about what you sleep in. I know folks have done this route with the Mylar/reflective emergency type bivy. Marshal Bird said once on this forum (i paraphrase) 'there is always a better sleep spot 10 miles down the route.' I think that is very true.

[febikes]

Ya, I think the army bivy may be too much bulk.  It's really warm and durable but for the Divide a lighter more hi tech system my be better.  I plan to use the army bivy for training starting next week but for the event I will likely buy something new. 

I slept (by mistake or lack of focus) on top of a ridge last year a couple of hours past Lincoln because I was too tired to go on... it dropped well into the 20's. I also slept just out side of Wise River DOWN OFF the mountain and awoke to a layer of ice over my gear. I think it got down to around 28* that night according to the locals.

What were you sleeping in and how comfortable was the sleep?  With enough gear you can be comfortable in almost any conditions but striking the balance between comfort and weight seems to be the real challenge. 

[trebor]

I was in a Sierra Designs Navassa bivy, Big Agnes Air Core pad, and used a modified quilt that covered me from foot to chest and had a down jacket for my upper body.

On those two nights I was past the edge of comfort. The quilt being the weak link at those temps. I can sleep comfy into the low 40's in that quilt with nothing but sleep shorts and a base layer wool shirt on in the bivy. Those two particular nights I could sleep - but in short amounts at a time before I'd wake shivering and reposition myself to attempt to stay warm. I had on my base wool shirt, down jacket, sleep shorts, rain pants, skull cap, and wool socks. The night near Wise River also included my Event rain jacket over my face and torso.

[DenisVTT]

Matthew Lee explained one time that during the TD he purposefully sleeps colder than comfortable, so that when his alarm clock rings at 4:30am or what ever goddam o'clock he wakes up at, he's motivated to get up, as it's more comfortable to start pedaling in the dark and the cold than staying one minute longer laying down shivering in the fetal position.

Of course, that's part of why he's a 5-time winner and I'm not!  

[sluttyduck]

Matthew Lee explained one time that during the TD he purposefully sleeps colder than comfortable, so that when his alarm clock rings at 4:30am or what ever goddam o'clock he wakes up at, he's motivated to get up, as it's more comfortable to start pedaling in the dark and the cold than staying one minute longer laying down shivering in the fetal position.

Of course, that's part of why he's a 5-time winner and I'm not! 

My strategy was similar.
I slept in a 20 degree quilt and wound up sweating every night. That way I'd wake up at 5am cold and wet and had to ride to warm up.

When/if I get to do it this year I'll just have a 45 degree bag, sleep on top of my tent, and crawl in and air it up if I get cold/rain.

[krefs]

The night-time temperatures can vary wildly depending on where you end up when you need to sleep at night. I carry a 40-degree sleeping bag, a very light bivy, and a Thermarest pad that helps insulate me from the ground a bit. Last year I was quite cold almost every night in Montana, but if you're only sleeping for a few hours, that's alright, as long as you don't let your body waste energy and cut into recovery by shivering.

When looking at other peoples' setups, you must be mindful of how long their sleeping, how picky they are about trying to find relatively warm places to sleep, and how easily they get cold. These are all different for everyone, so a 30-degree bag will be fine for some, excessively warm for others, and not nearly enough for others yet. Sleep setups are also augmented by the other clothing one might carry, so just looking at sleep systems would not consider whether a rider carried an insulated jacket or anything else that might be worn at night. The only way you'll know what will work for you is to test out different combinations  fr yourself.

[Georg66]

... but if you're only sleeping for a few hours, that's alright, as long as you don't let your body waste energy and cut into recovery by shivering.

From my experience in the European alps, it went quite good in a not-to-warm sleeping equipment, when I was happy to get out of the coolish bivy at dawn. Let's see how this works during TD.
And to Kurt, one question: During TD 2011 there was one night, where you did not get any sleep for the whole night. Would you do this again? (I don't ask that for a personal advice or recommendation to me/us :-)

[krefs]

Georg, I have no idea if I'd do that again or not. I actually rode straight through the night that night, the final night, and on the 3rd-to-last night I only stopped for ~45 minutes. None of these were planned...it all just depends on how your body feels, what the weather is like (heat, wind), what the terrain is like, how much food remains, etc. On that big push I put in across ID and WY, my legs FINALLY started to feel good a week into the race, so I just wanted to take advantage of that. I managed to pass Jefe, but he caught me by the next night, and Ethan caught up a day and a half later after seemingly burying himself to close the gap. Luckily, my body recovered from the effort after a day.

I'm not sure riding through the night any time before the very end of the race is really going to gain much in terms of the overall race standings in the long run, but there are a few scenarios where I could see it being potentially beneficial for your own race. On the other hand, 36+ hours is a long time to push. Your pace will be considerably higher for the last part of that if you stop and sleep for even just a short time. So who knows...it'll be a big gamble no matter what.

[febikes]

Thanks all.  I selpt last night in my army bivy with the light bag with 32 degrees but no altitude.  I was very comfortably and may use the same setup at the divide.  The army bivy is a bit heavy but I already have it and it's not like I will be racing for a top time.  I think I can carry the army bivy plus some other minimal gear for a bike plus gear that is under 40 pounds (minus water).  My guess is that my setup will be on the heavy side but it is likely the divide will take me 30+ days so I think a bit of comfort is better then going ultralight.

[Georg66]

... On that big push I put in across ID and WY, my legs FINALLY started to feel good a week into the race, so I just wanted to take advantage of that. I managed to pass Jefe, but he caught me by the next night, ...

I remember this situation very well from a "couch point of view", especially after Atlantic City. Since you were moving during nights we were happy to watch (via internet) also during the (European) daytime. 

[MarinaEversole]

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[rooster14]

what types of sleeping bags do you guys carry?

i have had a marmot pinnacle for a while and i dont really want to buy another bag, but i am feeling like i would love to just get a 40 degree bag and a liner for the sake of space...but really dont want to drop the dime on it...

[mikepro]

Mtn Hardware Phantom 32 + REI Minimalist bivy + Emergency "space" blanket + thin liner hat is what I used on '10.  No sleeping pad, no tarp, no liner.  Purchased 1 month before race, and did not pre-test.

Worked great, except slept way too hot most nights and more often than not had condensation moisture inside the bivy sack.  Left bivy sack wide open, not fully zipped except for one night in CO due to skeeters.  Slept inside bivy but not inside bag that night, to stay cool.

[rooster14]

Mtn Hardware Phantom 32 + REI Minimalist bivy + Emergency "space" blanket + thin liner hat is what I used on '10.  No sleeping pad, no tarp, no liner.  Purchased 1 month before race, and did not pre-test.

Worked great, except slept way too hot most nights and more often than not had condensation moisture inside the bivy sack.  Left bivy sack wide open, not fully zipped except for one night in CO due to skeeters.  Slept inside bivy but not inside bag that night, to stay cool.

do you regret not using a pad?

[mikepro]

do you regret not using a pad?

Nope.  One of the smartest gear choices I made, in not taking one.