Stagecoach 400 Discussion 2012

[kdinger]

and part two of my race report is up as well.

http://calestravels.blogspot.com/

Cale, I tried to post this as a comment on your blog as well, but the software ate it...

Thanks for writing this all up.  Enjoyed reading it.  And congrats on a great race.

Good to have cleared up what happened on that hike-a-bike off of Sloan Canyon Road.  I was puzzled to all of a sudden see only two sets of tracks ahead of me on the route there instead of five.  I figured you three had gone off route and would have to backtrack and catch back up to me and was disappointed when it became clear you were all still ahead of me.

I was just about to stop and sleep for 2-3 hours when I passed you guys sleeping by Lake Hodges.  This inspired me to give going through a 2nd night without sleep a try.  Predictably, this was a disaster.  Shortly after you guys dropped me on Hwy 78, I went way off route - I had misread the cues as saying we had like 12 miles on Hwy 78 and so didn't pull out my GPS and realize my mistake until 3 miles past the turnoff, arghh!  I pretty much fell completely apart after that and ended up finishing 6 hours after you and Jason.

Hope to ride/race with you (and everyone else on here!) again sometime, Keith

[thelocust]

ahh yeah, we felt really bad about that part and even waited at the route for half an hour to try and make up for the time we probably gained. man what a difference a couple hours of sleep makes huh? we were thinking about you through that huge climbing section around mesa grande wondering how you were pulling that off on a SS.

[thelocust]

oh and your comment is up on the blog now.

[DaveH]

I used a Garmin eTrex 30 in the Stagecoach 400. It also has a barometric altimeter.

A bit off the topic of Stagecoach...but calculating accumulated vert for a route is not nearly as simple as it appears at first glance.  There is still quite a bit of noise in barometric readings -  you can rack up quite a bit of climb while remaining stationary.  Truth is, you're all correct but the numbers used were derived by different algorithms.  If you are a topofusion user take a look at the climbing analysis options to see several options.

[Roland Sturm]

Fluctuations in pressure lead to overestimation (as they are interpreted as descending/climbing even when standing still), as does the imprecision from satellite calculations. But the bias is always in the direction of overestimation. However, differences between measurements (if both use air pressure during similar times) should be relatively small whereas Jill (43,500) and I (31,500) came up with extremely different numbers. So what do other people get?

[thelocust]

I was pretty spot on 31,000 i think 31,700 or so.

[groundedkiwi]

Well this is funny....so you guys got me curious, I have the same as Jill, an Etrex-30, and its showing 43,122 feet!
At least the models are consistent!

[thelocust]

mine was an etrex 20!

[DaveH]

Are you guys reporting values that were calculated on the fly in the GPS unit or later in a software package like topofusion or mapsource?

The they are calculated differently (GPS realtime calc vs. software calc) so this might be part of what is going on?

[Jilleo]

I plugged my tracks into Garmin Connect. The supposed map-corrected route has 34,600 feet of climbing. I wonder if that seems more accurate. Although looking at my average moving speeds makes me wonder if I should stick with trail running. Ha!

Part 1: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/174409294
Part 2: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/174409654
Part 3: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/174408795
Part 4: http://connect.garmin.com/activity/174408839

[groundedkiwi]

Mine was just pulled straight off the unit.

[DaveH]

I think all the ladies did extra climbing!

[the tortoise]

I think elevation gains from dropping a track onto software is not as accurate as what comes off the unit. Different mapping software will give different readings. My Delorme Topo always seems to over estimate and I think Topo Fusion might underestimate. I ride the area a lot and most rides average over 100 feet per mile and these are on much shorter rides where sitting around and having the barometric differences adding elevation gain doesn't factor in. But that is nit picking and my hunch is that it is in the 38,000 to 40,000 range.

Still on a high from finishing!

Before I started I said never again and now I can't wait for the next multi day adventure.

[Roland Sturm]

My model is Vista Cx (barometric) and the number is straight from the unit.

I tend to think 30k total is more realistic because there was very little climbing in the first day (remember, all downhill!). Didn't make it easy (hardest day for me), but I doubt I could have done close to 35k or more in the last two days (I think less than 5000 feet of climbing for me on day 1).

There is a lot of similar discussion about TD, some people claim that it is more than 200k of climbing. I didn't measure the total, but days of more than 8k were extremely rare, so 150k seems more like it - but that still assumes that the Vista Cx is about right. However, I've used it in many situations where I knew altitudes and the numbers are on target. In contrast, I can't say the same for my Edge 700, which I find rather useless in that respect.  

It is very disconcerting if there were systematic inconsistencies across Garmin models (as it appears) because that raises the risk for some major misplanning on food/water needs if you think you are almost done and it is actually 50% more.

[Jilleo]

My first day had 6,152 feet of climbing. (http://connect.garmin.com/activity/174409294) Going from 0 to 3,000 up Fish Creek wash helped in that regard. There was plenty of ups and downs throughout the ride to rack up the cumulative elevation gain. Personally, I noticed that the sections I thought would be easy based on the pre-race elevation profiles were anything but. The big climbs on Day 4 were easier for me than the rollers through suburban San Diego.

However, I'm with you on the Tour Divide. I had an HCx at the time and also registered closer to 150,000 feet overall.

[nowayjose]

I just wanted to do a quick post and thank everybody that helped put together this race, Mary and Brendan you rock! Craig, great support. Also Cale thanks a lot man, I enjoyed your company and Melissa's. Katherine it was a pleasure riding with you, even when it didn't last more than half a day. Also my guardian angels Chi, Gerry and Jason what a solid group, it's a shame that my life was calling me back in San Antonio. I would have loved sharing the finish line with you guys. I went to this race for the experience an got a whole lot more than what I expected. Next time I'll go back with a lighter set up (did I say go back?). Jose

[GerryL]

and part two of my race report is up as well.

http://calestravels.blogspot.com/

That was a great report. I figured you riders at the front of the pack just rode through that stuff with no problems. My experience was pretty much like yours except slower and longer   Especially that last set of hills before Anza... somewhere out there I ran into a crazy looking character walking two big dogs in the dark with a .44 strapped to his side. I thought I might be hallucinating, but he responded when I asked him where Anza was. We also had the tribal sheriff grab us off that hike a bike section on the reservation. Much to our later chagrin I was able to sweet talk him into letting us proceed.

[GerryL]

I just wanted to do a quick post and thank everybody that helped put together this race, Mary and Brendan you rock! Craig, great support. Also Cale thanks a lot man, I enjoyed your company and Melissa's. Katherine it was a pleasure riding with you, even when it didn't last more than half a day. Also my guardian angels Chi, Gerry and Jason what a solid group, it's a shame that my life was calling me back in San Antonio. I would have loved sharing the finish line with you guys. I went to this race for the experience an got a whole lot more than what I expected. Next time I'll go back with a lighter set up (did I say go back?). Jose

What??? I was looking forward to sharing hot pasta at those night rests next year. It was great riding with you Jose and   you were there in spirit when we crossed the line.

[the tortoise]

Here is a link to an interesting article related to altitude gain: http://blog.mtbguru.com/2006/12/17/elevation-accuracy/

They do talk about some GPS units smoothing data more than others. There are lots of little up and downs than may not get recorded on some units.
I rode some trails up at Sherman pass that was an OHV area. (great riding by the way during the week when there are not a lot of people there) There were a ton of woop de doos there. By the time I was done with the ride I was totally wasted. I attribute it to all the little up and downs that wouldn't be on a normal mountain bike track.

[JayP]

a few words of reflection...

http://jaypetervary.blogspot.com/

had a great time on vacation, thanks again ALL!