Stagecoach 400 Discussion 2012

[the tortoise]

Jay,

I spoke to you at the campground the night before the race and it was an honor to do so. You gave me some great tips that helped get me through the ride. In Borrego I jettisoned my tent, sleeping pad and some other gear. This made sleeping set up easy, not too comfortable and allowed me to get up super early to put in the hours I needed to complete the race in the allotted time. You had a saying like "never more, never less" or something to that effect.
Congrats on such a strong race.

[schillingsworth]

This looks like a really cool route, congrats to all that participated.

I did notice that in a few posts & blog reports that there were a few sections that had questionable access, i.e. the homeowner, the reservation, and the comment by the park ranger re: 'an illegal race'. Were these claims legit? Are re-routes planned for the future? Pardon my ignorance on the subject, just curious.

[Von Petrol]

 It is not truly an illegal race. Because this event went through a state park a permit is needed for that park. With that said, the race had no entry fees, no prizes...no nothing. The trails we took were all legal trails for us to be on. We were just a bunch of friends riding in the park That is why there was nothing the ranger could do to me when I called for help for Karlos.

I have dealt with these issues before in the 4x4 world. I was trying to keep everything low key as far as the park & park ranger was concerned. If it was for profit race than yes we would need a permit.

[Roland Sturm]

Three different issues, the main one an incorrect claim about "illegal". Certain events are required to obtain special use permits to be legal, but these bikepacking events are structured to stay below these cutpoints (TourDivide starting in Banff is a problem case, though, because at times it exceeds the maximum). As far as I can tell, there was nothing illegal here and I do organize permitted events in National Park sites (in cooperation with NPS) every year. Next one is here (and a bit bigger than Stagecoach: 5000-7000 people): www.topangabanjofiddle.org  

Here are the rules for special authorization requirements on federal land (in this case, much of the route was going through National Forests, as do many other routes, including GDMBR or CT). This is it:
"Special Use Authorizations
A special-use authorization is a legal document such as a permit, term permit, lease, or easement, which allows occupancy, use, rights, or privileges of NFS land. The authorization is granted for a specific use of the land for a specific period of time.
You will need an authorization:
If you will need to occupy, use, or build on NFS land for personal or business purposes, whether the duration is temporary or long term.
If there is a fee being charged or if income is derived from the use.
If an activity on NFS land involves individuals or organization with 75 or more participants or spectators".

So Stagecoach did not require this special use permit. But you can see that it is essential to enforce participation cutoffs - but also why those events are free. An "organizer" needs to be both strict about participation (through limited distribution of route cues/GPS, so don't bitch about being cut out or show up uninvited - get your act together on time) while at the same time not even being an organizer in the typical sense. But then there is no problem.

Local and state rules generally cue off this as well and if there were anything different about Anza-Borrego, at least I couldn't find it. VonPetrol, what is your reason for claiming that a permit for AB is needed? If you have the details, it would be good to know them. I suspect, however, that the ranger probably was just guessing that this is something like road gran fondos with hundreds of people and very substantial entry fees (some of those events have gross revenues in the 6 digits). Yes, that would warrant a special permit. And pretty reasonable: If people want to make a business leading others through national or state park land, the park should get its cut for that. This one wasn't and the ranger was probably just making an incorrect assumption.

If you ever work with permits in state park, you also see that the administration is primarily concerned with other state rules/laws: Do you have sign language interpreters once the event has more than x people? Did you establish wheelchair accessibility for y people per 100 participants? Do you have z portapotties per 100? Do you provide an appropriate amount of shade? Trash cans? Etc. The form is several pages long - but it doesn't apply here at all!

The other two pieces may require small route changes in the future. Accessibility can change all the time, trails are opened or closed constantly and that may have happened in Idyllwild as well. I thought that there were single track trails going down out of town, but some were closed recently to avoid erosion. I'm purely guessing here, Brendan would have to weigh in, but it could be that Brendan already rerouted to a dirt road to account for restrictions, which then raised an unexpected other hurdle. In San Diego, I saw no problem or signs on the hike-a-bike when I went through, but if it indeed crossed tribal land that the locals don't want people to be on, then a small reroute will solve the problem.  

[Von Petrol]

Like. You are right Roland, I guess I did not explain myself clear enough. The "Event" did not meet the requirement for said permit.

Colen

[schillingsworth]

Roland,
Thanks for the very detailed information. I had an inkling that's what was going on as most of the AZ endurance races are capped at 74 riders.

-John

[Roland Sturm]

That's the general gist and I would think following the general NFS guidelines is good practice.

Although as with everything, there will always be details that could keep lawyers (which I'm not) busy for years. Many regulations are very reasonable: seasonal closures to protect habitat, restrictions on trail use to prevent erosion, etc. Above was the general NSF rule.  

Different agencies can qualify that, as discussed in the BLM manual H2930-1, "The threshold, if any, must be determined for each area (for example, 10 people in a sensitive riparian area may constitute an organized group, but a less sensitive upland area may be able to handle 200 people without the need for special management).  Thresholds must be based upon planning, resource concerns, potential user conflicts, and public health and safety.  Field Offices are encouraged to develop thresholds through land use planning for when permits are required for organized groups and events for specific types of recreation activities, land areas, or resource settings."

If you wanted to get into lawyering, there will be countless hairs to split and some of them come down to what is a race and what isn't. That very topic actually kept French courts busy for years in the context of "randonneuring" (which I really consider the spiritual ancestor of our bikepacking events: extremely long distances, self-supported, with time limits, but the main idea that you challenge yourself rather than trying to beat others). In that case, it had to do with government subsidies, but the punchline was that randonneuring was distinct from standard bike racing and randonneuring events are not races. But if you look at them, they look (or at least used to look) an awful lot like bikepack racing, only distinction being that they are primarily on paved roads (with a bit of gravel or dirt at times) and drafting is ok. Much more similar to bikepack events than a cross-country, downhill, or any other type of bike race.

That is a relevant distinction for events crossing BLM land because BLM has a general permitting process for competitive use (see handbook 2930-1). So the term "race" will immediately get peoples hair to stand up because it raises the specter of dozens of jeeps or motorcycles (or for that matter, 100 downhill bikes) tearing through the last habitat of endangered desert species. The permitting process can become very expensive very quickly if a dozen people need to look into environmental impact issues. A good reason to avoid the term "race" for bikepacking events, even though (like randonneuring), this is about getting from one place to another as fast as you can.

Maybe I should start a separate post under ultra-racing as this cuts across all events, but here is a bit of history on how randonneuring became legally recognized as NOT being bike racing in France (very useful to know for bikepacking events if anybody mouthes off on "illegal races", use the relevant language about "noncompetitive" on the organization site). Starting more than 100 years ago, long-distance, high-speed rides, often through the night, were used as "transport stages" before and after more gentle touring. By the 1920s, this became formalized as "randonneur" brevets, where people could challenge long distances with time limits and there was an official umbrella organization. In the 1970s, the French Cycling Federation (in charge of bike racing) complained that these events are competitions and therefore either should be prohibited or only held by FFC. Now, randonneurs really hated that idea, probably just as much as if we had to take out annual licenses from USA Cycling, so at that moment, randonneur events were simply declared to be noncompetitive. A formality because the essential events continued unchanged. At the front of the pack, people hammer through randonneuring's prime event Paris-Brest-Paris in under 50 hours (the distance is about twice Stagecoach 400, but on pavement), and it is just as competitive as anything; at the end, many struggle making the time cut under 4 days. No prizes, no awards (sounds familiar?). Same strategies as you would expect on a bikepacking race like Stagecoach 400, if you want to be in the lead group, it means little to no sleep.

Bikepack "races" (maybe we can find an alternative term) are much more in the original spirit of randonneuring than the more recent development in the US, which have become environmentally wasteful commercial enterprises, like RAAM or Furnace Creek 508, by replacing the idea of self-support with multiple cars idling behind each rider and "teams" where every rider just does a fraction of the distance. While their popularity cannot be denied, they hold no appeal to me.

[et3surge]

Mind you this was my first bikepacking event, I also made my own bags and was in a bit of a trial run.  I Loved it, I suffered madly but loved it.

Here is my Blog post.  If you simply jump with the photos you can skip a lot of the fluff:

http://sergekeepmoving.blogspot.com/2012/05/stagecoach-400-almost-final-but-long.html

Sergio

[kdinger]

Two questions:

1) Has anyone heard how we return the trackleaders rental Spot units?

2) I found a red knit beanie with the words 'Blue Yonder Girl' on the route.  I picked it up since it was on a part of the route where it seemed like relatively few non-Stagecoach folks would be travelling.  I'd be happy to mail it, if someone wants it back.  Otherwise, I'll give it to my daughter.

-Keith

[al_maxey]

LOL, I saw that red beanie!  I didn't think anyone was behind me though - I was still trying to catch up to the pack.

That was an amazing route, more hike a bike than I expected - which did me in, but an incredible string of trails to get from point a to point b and back. Coming from VA, the terrain and views were very different and truly amazing. I regret riding some portions in the dark because I know I missed some terrific sights. Next year I'll be a little more heads down racing mode, but this year I am glad I saw what I did, got pictures, and had a great time. I'll wear different shoes too, so I can push my bike without getting blisters.

Big thanks to Brendan and all of the folks who put together and scouted trails for the route. I really enjoyed meeting the folks I met out there, some good down to earth people who love to ride their bikes.  Can't wait to do it again!

[the tortoise]

Errrrr that was my red beanie! I grabbed it out of our stocking hat pile and didn't realize the wording on it til later, but I needed to take something with me for sleeping. I think it is my wife's or daughters. I stuffed it in my tennis shoes that I used to get through the willows in coyote canyon and it must of fallen out. Did you see a white sock too? No need to send it back. I bought a  more manly beanie in descanso!
In regards to the spot unit you have, you need to send it back asap from what I understand. Go to the trackleaders board and see if they have an address. If not call brendan at the hub cyclery.

[groundedkiwi]

2) I found a red knit beanie with the words 'Blue Yonder Girl' on the route.

OMG!  I read that too fast the first time and thought it said Blue Wonder Pill!!!!   Rich...you had me worried there for a second! (more so than usual!!) 

[mtnbik]

Does anyone know how many people actually finished the race? 

[hikernks]

It's a few days late(c'mon, I was fishin with the old man), but here's my photo album link.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150877367667779.395357.507267778&type=1&l=9fa7e77e79

Matt

[the tortoise]

Kiwi,

Now the old man viagra jokes!

Thanks

[Roland Sturm]

And after Rich was trying so hard to look fierce and youthful with a bloody skull and crossbones on his jersey, "death march" lettering. But adding a "Blue Yonder Girl" beanie (even if color co-ordinated) and it all falls apart again.....

But so we don't forget about the previous question: Brendan, can you post the finishing/drop-out results (or even just the sign-out list) here or on your blog?

[the tortoise]

What have I ever done to deserve this sort of treatment???

And Roland I was going to offer to give you pictures that I took of the finisher sheets and the racers comments but now you are out of luck! Of course if you apologize I might reconsider.

[the tortoise]

Roland,
Go to my facebook page and look at my Stagecoach pics. Towards the end you will see the finish line sheets with comments. 5 riders finished after me the next morning and I think that was it.
I think 42 started and 27 finished. The women' finishing ratio put the men's to shame!

[Chad B]

Any ideas on if this could be toured in late May? Checking the weather on some parts of the course and it does not look too hot?

[the tortoise]

The stretch between the top of Coyote Canyon to Sunrise Highway will be hot. People were having major issues going up Fish Creek during the day on Saturday and Oriflame and Mason Valley truck trail were no picnic either. The climb out of Pamoa Valley and up Black Canyon road could be hot too, then there is the endless hills of Lost Valley, and Chihuahua Valley to consider where there isn't much shade..
The beauty of the course is the diversity but with the diversity comes a myriad of potential weather issues from snow in Idyllwild and Laguna and the heat of the desert. 5,000 feet of elevation difference will do that to you. If you plan on riding late May be prepared for 90 to 100 degrees in the desert. I think April and mid October probably through December would be the best times to ride this course.