TD'11 Race Discussion

[DaveH]

For example, the course mile located 5 miles out from AW can be assigned 'mile 2,740', but i'm pretty sure it cannot simultaneously be 'mile 5' (for the purposes of a leaderboard).

Getting mile posts in the reverse direction is straightforward and found for any point as <route distance - milepost>.  That is one of the updates that will be in the next BlueDot release, I've posted a few snapshots of it here.  A leaderboard - in particular time to checkpoints - doesn't make sense when mixed with riders in the reverse direction, so there would need to be 2 of those.

The reality is they are 2 separate events.  Initially even the routes were to be different.  It looked like starting in the desert heat put an initial huge chunk of stress on riders that had to be overcome to be able to continue, and several didn't make it past that point.  Starting in the cool north might have been wetter but seems not have been as difficult to adapt to.  Those differences right there make direct comparisons less valid, although certainly still amusing.

My inclination would be to have separate trackers for each direction, with perhaps a layer switch to include the dots from the opposing direction. 

[bmike-vt]

...with perhaps a layer switch to include the dots from the opposing direction. 

and a wager board on who gets to brush mt first... nobo or sobo...
(although i'd bet that when the route returns to 'normal' (ha ha) the additional flat head and mountain passes in the north might make the golden spike slide a bit further north...

[mtbcast]

Denis Chezelle called in from Butte last night. And Jon Pettit called in from Platoro. He camped out last night with the Sasquatches.

You can get the audio here, via RSS,  or on iTunes!

Sorry these are late, Folks. I had an early appointment. Friday will likely be another as I'm having some outpatient work done. The calls are slowing but it's still good to hear from the riders and there are still a bunch out there. If you're in contact with any of them encourage them to call and I'll get them on as soon as I can.

[mtbcast]

Joe took down his PayPal link the first of the year.  Is there another way to shoot him a donation?

You can still send donations to mtbcast-at-gmail.com via PayPal, I'm just not soliciting for them.

[ZackR]

Matt,

I'm pretty sure I speak for a lot of us when I say that in this technology oriented world, it seems like managing blue dots would be a breeze compared to actually riding the divide. That said, we're all hugely appreciative of tourdivide.org, mtbcast, this forum, and all of the other ways you and many others have worked hard to keep us on the sidelines, and the riders, in the loop. If there is ever a way to chip in and help, I'd be happy to.

We're talking about a few very talented people providing a unique service for free. Imagine what they could do if they had the resources of, say, a TV network. Great work guys, and thanks. Along with all the fun of "stalking" the racers online, it's interesting to watch your software evolve into ever more useful and information packed forms. As I understand it, you are on the cutting edge of this stuff. It wasn't long ago that the Spot technology was yet to be invented.

[wookieone]

It is amazing what the Tech side of things has done, really lets folks feel like a part of it. The creepy side of it is the same thing, it really lets people be a part of it. I was honestly a bit freaked out by the amount of spot stalking going on out there. Especially in Co, there were folks all over, or so it seemed. It may sound crazy, but it got old at times, folks you don't know stopped on the road calling Your name at 11:pm, middle of no where. It felt like the Spot/leaderboard was a pass for anyone with internet to come out and see a racer, with no choice on the part of the racer. Don't get me wrong I liked talking to folks, but it was more magical when it was random and not stalking. Plus not having a cell phone I was not able to check out where everyone was, which was quite easy with and when there was cell service. If I was female I don't think I would be in tracking mode that often, maybe send some OK signals, cause it really is pretty creepy to find people out there who know who you are, how far anyone else is away and almost exactly where you are. With this whole thing getting so big, and yes I know a lot of folks were watching this race, it seems weird to have a rule that states that visits are frowned upon when the ultimate tool for doing such is heavily encouraged. This race made me ask a lot of questions and the spot stalking was one of them. It was a bit of a turn off for me when I was so very much in the zone, focused on the day, food and water sources, how far Kurt was ahead, where was Ethan and nothing else, and then come aroung the corner to find someone there waiting, wanting to chat, take pictures, etc. I think the rules and leaderboard need to adapt somewhat to deal with the growth of BlueDotJunkies and the temptation to turn into spot stalkers/super fans. I suppose this could be a thread in itself, so I'll stop here, something to ponder.....Jefe

[krefs]

I agree completely with Jefe's comments. It was a bit unnerving to have so many fans out there, often driving past and then quickly swerving off the road and jumping out of their cars/trucks. Alarm bells always went off - is that a superfan or someone that's going to try to steal my bike? That being said, usually it was fun to have someone to chat with for a few minutes. It's also more than a little frustrating to have had a couple dozen or more fans I've never before met come out to cheer and chat, but according to the rules, I can't grab a DQ Blizzard with Caroline when she rolls through Silver City in a few days, although I know some other racers have been a bit lax with respect to that particular rule.

[ScottM]

Yeah, the SPOT stalking thing is an issue.  I was curious to hear about it from both of you guys during the event and now after as well.  Heaven forbid we have to create more "rules", but it may come to that when it starts to affect the experience of the riders.  Having someone you don't know pull over on the side of the road is a bit strange, I have to agree.  I SPOT-stalked my friends in town, which seems a bit more civilized since other people and tons of services are around, but it is still a debatable thing to do, I have to admit.

[ZackR]

Holy cow. I had no idea there were that many strangers who actually tracked you guys down and pestered you. I would never do that, if for no other reason than not wanting to cause a distraction. Maybe a clown hat and a cowbell should be required for such stalkers, so you know who you are dealing with right away.

[mtbcast]

I think about the only way to "control" things from a fan stand-point is to request that they limit contact to some of the normal stopping points. That may mean a drive for some but it is also respectful of them as well. Just as the race is largely dependent on an honor system so too is the fan's involvement.  I think all we can ask is that they be mindful of the rider, perhaps limit contact to more populated areas, and perhaps identify themselves in some way if they are out on a stretch but don't expect riders to stop. If they do, great! Share the moment. If not, understand ultimately this is a time trial.

I hope to be able to get back to some commentary next year and perhaps that's something the podcast can put out pre-race and throughout the race.

[DaveH]

Did either of you (Jefe, Kurt) ever consider turning your SPOTs off to prevent the unintended visitors?  That's a tough one.  

For BlueDot, I am open to presenting a message to the user before rendering the map - something along the lines of what Joe is suggesting. 

[DaveH]

It was a bit unnerving to have so many fans out there

Ha!  That's what you get for providing the most exciting tracked ultra in history.

[tiggermm62]

@AZtrailertrash, they are not all young-uns out there!

This raises a question...is there any statistics on racer age, finish times, rookie vs. veteran, male vs. female, etc.

It would be kind of cool to see how all the experienced and inexperienced stack up against each other considering age, etc...  Racer classification would be interesting.

Just curious if this kind of thing is out there or even contemplated as this race grows??

[wookieone]

It was different to meet folks in town, cause you are in "Town Mode" and expect to see folks. But out there, middle of the night, middle of no where, it was a bit weird. Plus with the rules a bit vague, sort of, about visitation and what can a racer do if someone he/she knows shows up to cheer them on? I couldn't just ignore them and ride past, but I was stuck with the thought that I could get relegated for having friends/people who were stoked on what I was doing close to the course. I seriously got angry at that thought and was consumed by it for a couple days, here I was 2000 miles into a race, busting my balls to ride as much as I could, sleep in the dirt, eat gummie worms day and out and I thought I had broken a rule by just stopping to say hi to folks (whom I hadn't talked to in weeks and had no hope or plan to meet up with at all and honestly would have preferred were not there at all.) Not a good place to be, mentally tough to get past that. But the fact is that most folks don't even look at the rules, much less get the rules and telling them they can't visit a racer seems draconian to them. It puts the racer in a tough spot. And he/she is already in a tough spot doing what they are doing. I am not looking for more rules, maybe better communication with the GP, they don't read the TD rule page, (nor do some racers) but the weight shouldn't be thrown onto the racers shoulders, that's my opinion Jefe

[bmike-vt]

Instead of gumming up this thread with folks still out on course, having their race, can we move the tech / spot / rules discussion over here?

[wookieone]

Yeah I almost turned mine off once the Gunny invasion happened, I would have if I was expecting it at all. Would have gone stealth outside Salida on, but it really didn't occur to me that people would come out. Looking back, of course they would, Gunny is a small community, every one knows every one, especially in the bike community. But it was still a surprise. Every one asked me if I wanted to go home when I was 30 miles away, I was thinking only of the trail to come, how to catch Kurt, where to stop tonight. I was so in the zone, I never wanted to quit this thing, (except on the hike-bike-n-bake). But I believe the Spot has a place, it really keeps things honest in a way and I didn't turn it off on purpose, only by stupidity. So it was a double edge for me, stay connected and risk stalking, or stay connected and keep everyone watching happy. I will say from that day on I felt like every one in the world was watching every time I stopped to take a dump, big brother oh my. Jefe    (there's some fuel for speculation, I pooped alot!)

[wookieone]

yeah sorry......

[ZackR]

I think this discussion belongs right here. As Jefe pointed out, many people don't bother reading the rules. Why on Earth would anyone ask you if you wanted to go home, Jefe? That just seems pretty over the top. "Let's go find someone doing something incredibly difficult, and bother him."

Also, Jefe brings up another point, something I have thought about before while watching the blue dots. Having family or friends show up on the trail seems like a good way to have others ask questions about why they were there and not, say, in some town. The old rule about avoiding even the semblance of impropriety seems to apply.

[Roland Sturm]

I lost my spot near Steamboat and it looked like Bob Anderson found it and dropped it off at the Rabbit's Ear Motel. They did forward a spot (and charged my credit card  for $15) to Rob Leipheimer, but it seems to be somebody else's. Anyway, looks like I'm still going to be without a tracker, but now carry some extra luggage, let me know whose spot I have.

As you have guessed, I'm in Butte right now in Rob's shop. Now comes the tricky part: How to get on the freeway the wrong way. Paul Attalla called me a few mins ago and explained his trick (because he wasn't allowed on the ramp): Ride a few miles along the dirt until you find a hole in the fence. Anyway, you can see that here are additional challenges for NOBO riders.

[ScottM]

I lost my spot near Steamboat and it looked like Bob Anderson found it and dropped it off at the Rabbit's Ear Motel. They did forward a spot (and charged my credit card  for $15) to Rob Leipheimer, but it seems to be somebody else's. Anyway, looks like I'm still going to be without a tracker, but now carry some extra luggage, let me know whose spot I have.

If that SPOT works we will get you on the tracker with it.

As you have guessed, I'm in Butte right now in Rob's shop. Now comes the tricky part: How to get on the freeway the wrong way. Paul Attalia called me a few mins ago and explained his trick (because he wasn't allowed on the ramp): Ride a few miles along the dirt until you find a hole in the fence. Anyway, you can see that here are additional challenges for NOBO riders.

I would say taking the freeway in the legal way is perfectly acceptable!  That's what Paula and I did when we rode S->N.  I wouldn't recommend riding it backwards.