TD'11 Race Discussion

[Pelican Peloton]

The original route from the NM Border to Cuba was about 180 miles.  It took most riders two days to complete this section. Today the riders doing the reroutes from the NM border look like they may cover the distance to Cuba in one day.

[AZtrailertrash]

Anyone else watching Dejay struggle with his directions, bearings and staying on course? I can't even imagine what is going on inside his head, once he realizes his error.

 I know Voss had a very hard time in the dark last night trying to stay on course just north of Pinos Altos.  

[Done]

In honor of Justin Simoni making it past Steamboat, I felt the urge to donate to his cause:
http://gdmbr.justinsimoni.com/2011/03/march-fundraiser.html

I think it's cool that, in a race of renegades, Justin is the ultimate renegade's renegade--doing it his own way in awesome style!

[clashb02]

Man...today's reading is a huge letdown for me. My wife and I were on a road trip through Montana, Yellowstone/Wyoming. After seeing several people riding in the area that looked pretty serious and legit, we tossed around the idea that it might be Tour Divide racers. Leaving Jackson and heading south on 191, before Pinedale we saw someone else and decided we absolutely had to find out if we were on the TD route. Google led us to the TD website. We didn't even notice the spot tracker function, but did find out we were on this year's route, so from that point on we were on alert. Just south of Pinedale we saw two riders side by side in the distance. I put my flashers on and slowed down and my wife hung out the window and "cheered." We were extra careful to not seem like the a-holes that just drive by and yell to be jerks. We thought it was awesome that we were able to cheer for them, because my thoughts were "how many people out here know what they're doing and how cool it is?" In my mind I thought that it must have also been really cool for the riders to know that someone would randomly drive by and cheer for them. It must be good motivation, at least temporarily, when you're in a race like that. The experience literally made our day and ultimately lead me to this website a few days ago, where I realized that we had seen Kurt and Jefe and they were the leaders. EVEN MORE AWESOME! Now I find out that our little Tour Divide story we've been telling our friends, actually caused the rides more harm than good. Sorry guys...maybe think of it this way...for the minor inconvenience you experienced, you actually made someone else super happy.

[mikepro]

Yeah, things looked slow for JV last night.  Now, he seems to be cruising out of Silver City, and hammering for the finish line.  Hope his desert heat experience goes well.

[mikepro]

Man...today's reading is a huge letdown for me. ...maybe think of it this way...for the minor inconvenience you experienced, you actually made someone else super happy.

Don't let it get you!  As a veteran of the race, I appreciated the types of random support you describe that you did, when they happened to me last year.  What you did was great and wonderful and seredipitous in my mind, and the past couple days of this forum w.r.t. the subject of "passionate following" and cheering has been out of hand.  Jefe's latest post expressing his love, admiration, respect, etc. for the race is more the norm for sure.

[sigma7]

It's about 300 miles from Tucson to AW and there's a pretty nice route, about half dirt and half paved.

Do you have a description - or even better - a GPS track?


-- sigma7

[wookieone]

Don't be let down!!! Yeah I don't mean sour puss at all. For the most part random folks out there were a treat!!! It was to be honest when I was close to home and folks I knew came out and I thought I was gonna get relegated for it. Truly this race for me was to see how hard I could push myself and to hopefully inspire others, so believe me if you were the least bit inspired then I am so stoked. It was a combination of being fried/focused and unprepared for so much enthusiasium that made it seem weird. Plus I couldn't remember the rules well enough to know if I was screwed by the actions of others, and that is the slippery slope I want to discuss and not to dull the love of this event that is growing. Jefe

[krefs]

Now I find out that our little Tour Divide story we've been telling our friends, actually caused the rides more harm than good. Sorry guys...maybe think of it this way...for the minor inconvenience you experienced, you actually made someone else super happy.

No no, don't get us wrong. That kind of cheering is awesome. That was actually Dave Bruno and I at that point...and I remember thinking, "whoa, how do these people know about the race?!" and smiling. It was a few days later, it felt like every couple hours there was someone that would stop along the route to cheer and take photos, and while some attention is great, it made us feel like jerks if we didn't stop to chat for a minute or two, but that, as Jefe pointed out, really pulls one out of the pedaling zen in which we hopefully had found ourselves. Perhaps the best solution to all this is to simply make sure that fans realize that riders may not want to stop, and if we know that fans realize this, we won't feel bad about waving and continuing on our way. And I think we'd also request that fans don't suddenly pull over in front of us like they want to steal our bikes :-)

[clashb02]

whew...great to hear that we weren't part of the problem, because we actually did have a discussion about how to best go about cheering for anyone we might see without "interfering", and as much as we wanted to drive next to you and chat, we figured that was a bad idea. I guess it makes sense that it was Dave Bruno with you, and I guess Jefe was the rider we saw before Pinedale.

Thanks for the responses and great rides guys! As neat as it was to randomly (and surprisingly) end up on the route at the same time as you guys, the best part of all of this is that it was so exciting for my wife to see that she is now 100% behind the idea of me doing this some day. Keeping her off the course cheering for everyone might be a problem though 

[Erick L]

Kurt, I think you nailed it.  It is simply more about setting fan expectations.

Whether Matt Lee knows it or not, he has developed a new Grand Tour.  With origins remarkably similar to the Tour de France, instead of having course stewards to ensure participant stay on course, we now have Spot tracking.  What really makes this Grand Tour, and other bikepacking races, a game changer is that it has made cycling a truly spectator friendly sport.  I have sat on the side of a mountain in Italy for 6 hours waiting for the Tour de France peleton to fly by in 30 seconds.  It's not fun.  But to be be able see real time updates of riders, post comments and even hear their voices by call in, that is amazing.  To try and create an environment where fan interaction is discouraged is doing a disservice to a sport that has been for years trying to find ways to create a wider fan base.  That said, just like in other grand tours, riders aren't going to stop on the side of the road to sing autographs and take pictures.  Aside from handing up a can of coke or a bottle of water, fans know not to interfere with the progress of the race, let alone jump on their bike and try to ride along.  This is a Grand Tour and the precedent has already been set.

Fans should have signs, cowbells, cheer loudly, or even jump up and down wearing a devil costume. Just don't be mad if racers go by without even acknowledging your are there.  After all it is a race.

And as long as I'm talking about expectations and such the comments about the Euro Train baffle me.  Saying this race is an ITT is a statement filled with irony.  By definition ITTs have staggered starts and race against a clock, by having a grand depart, mass start, this is a race to see who can finish first, not a race against the clock.  Yes it is a personal challenge, and a method of self discovery, however if people chose to ride together, share hotels and what not, why would it be against the nature or essence of the race?  I think the days of Thoreau-esq TD rides through the woods are long gone, this is an entirely different beast now.  

[mtbcast]

Thanks Kurt and Jefe for clarifying. Fans need to understand if they don't stop it's because they want to keep moving and nothing personal. Perhaps a simple acknowledgement from the racer, if possible, (who knows how completely in the zone they might be!) would be cool (a nod, thumbs up). In the long run, as a fan don't expect a stop and as a racer don't feel you have to.

[Pelican Peloton]

The following is from a write up about the Leadville 100 in 2009: " Matt Shriver, the Fort Lewis cycling team's coach, was enlisted by Lance Armstrong last weekend to help the 7-time Tour de France champion set a course record at the Leadville Trail 100."

While the TD may not be a time trial, it is an INDIVIDUAL  race.  In the future will we start seeing unofficial teams pacing riders to the front?       

[AmyL]

Feeling the need to add my two cents about the dynamic between racers and the rest of the world.

This race is by, for, and about racers.  No doubt.  But now that it's getting press coverage, it is a platform to speak to and inspire others in significant ways.  You racers (and ACA, Matt, Scott, Joe, etc) have an audience now and can do a great service to the world.

The GDMBR that ACA developed is a masterpiece of bike routing.  There's nothing else like it.  It's well routed, well documented, beautiful, fantastic long bike route through remote landscapes, that for the vast majority of its course has few or no cars.  Anybody who likes to sleep in a tent and knows how to ride a bike can tour this route, given enough time.  It's not technical riding, so it only requires great bike skills if you're trying to go fast.  Racers have to suffer to race the course, because they are spending such long days in the saddle and won't stop when the weather is rotten.  But, riding it at a touring pace requires NO suffering; or I should say I can't remember a single hour of suffering when I toured the route, riding at a pace that was all pleasure and no misery.

If this race can serve to inspire racers to race faster and push harder, that's great for the individuals who are inspired.  If it can inspire a random person to get out of their car and take a vacation by bike instead, then holy wow that's good for that individual AND it's good for the planet. 

Toward my agenda, I'd say keep the press engaged.  Keep encouraging people to watch.  Keep posting lovely photos of the scenery.  Keep telling people about the magic and beauty of the course and not just about the enormous physical and mental challenge.  Find a way to turn your phenomenal effort toward the greater good -- one more bicycle, one less car!

Thanks to all of you for what you've done, and for being willing to share it with the rest of us.

AmyL, Palo Alto

[Erick L]

The following is from a write up about the Leadville 100 in 2009: " Matt Shriver, the Fort Lewis cycling team's coach, was enlisted by Lance Armstrong last weekend to help the 7-time Tour de France champion set a course record at the Leadville Trail 100."

While the TD may not be a time trial, it is an INDIVIDUAL  race.  In the future will we start seeing unofficial teams pacing riders to the front?       

Interesting question.  I was at that Leadville 100, and if my memory serves me correctly Lance did a 60 mile solo effort after dropping Matt & Dave.  Matt pushed the pace at the start to limit the size of the field, but then Lance took off.  Matt ended up finishing third.  How is that any different than Jefe pushing Kurt to ride harder and faster and pull all night efforts to take the lead.  Is it unfair that there was another strong rider that made Kurt ride harder and faster to win?

Every mountain bike race is an individual race, but that doesn't mean that a racer shouldn't try and tag on to a faster rider to help keep their pace higher.  Even in legitimate ITTs, riders will use the rider ahead of them as a carrot.  Does that make that effort not an "individual" effort because there is somebody else on the course that is making that rider go faster than they would if it was just them all alone on course? 

In the context of the TD, solo effort, is loosely defined, and the essence or spirit of the race is still being established.  Riding an individual race along side others doing the same seems to fit well within the defined context...more than say a tandem team right?

Anyway, back to the race....What are the chances Justin Simoni will be able ride back into the field, losing the Lantern Rouge designation?

[mikepro]

Anyway, back to the race....What are the chances Justin Simoni will be able ride back into the field, losing the Lantern Rouge designation?

Hard to say.  Looks like it's been a little slow for him since leaving Rawlins, and not just due to the snow in the one area between Slater and Steamboat.  His spots even show him going back uphill at one point during the steep descent into Radium / Colorado River (and losing up to 1/2 hour).   He's got to up his mileage per day to catch others.

[Mrs.BigPoppa]

Yeah, things looked slow for JV last night.  Now, he seems to be cruising out of Silver City, and hammering for the finish line.  Hope his desert heat experience goes well.

I talked to him briefly this morning when he was in Silver City.  He seemed anxious to get moving and sounded to be in pretty good spirits.  I think he was definitely "impressed" with the Gila section and the desert heat.  He said he even drank soda, and he hates soda.  I'm glad the riding will be easier through the finish.  So...  is there just some random soda machine out there or something?

[AZtrailertrash]

Check out Dejays phone in here from Beaverhead:  http://mtbcast.com/site2/

Somewhere at a Forest Service Station, they were out of Coke, and only had Dr. Pepper in a cold soda machine.

[AmyL]

Do you have a description - or even better - a GPS track?
-- sigma7

Sigma7 - I just assembled a gpx file of the route we followed from Hachita to Tucson.  Fly to Tucson, or drive a one-way car rental to Tucson, and then cycle to Hachita, avoiding the potential disaster that Greyhound offers.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15393086/BPL/Tucson-Airport-to-Hachita.gpx

I'm sure somebody who lives in Tucson could improve the route.  It's not bad as is.  375 km from Tucson Airport to Hachita.  As far as I know, Sam Hughes still hosts campers on his lawn and provides shuttle services to Antelope Wells, if you don't relish the idea of riding that stretch twice.  (google Sam Hughes Hachita for more info)

[Pelican Peloton]

The random soda machine