TD'12 Race Discussion

[Pivvay]

That is why I raced 2009 w/o a cell phone but it really sucks. Pay phones are almost non-existent at this point.

[Semi Slick]

Anyone want to guess where the Golden Spike will be driven this year?  Cjell the North-bounder ain't doing too badly...

[ThatDudeOnABike]

I've been watching that battle, and wondering if either of them know where the other one is and either hears footsteps behind or sees prey up ahead. They are so close to the same pace that Jarral has a hard time making much ground, but both are slowly putting more distance between themselves and their rivals. Also, this morning Eszter was on the road at least 45 minutes before Jarral was, so she helped herself there.

Is it just me, or is Jarral gaining more ground and catching back up to where he was?  Gonna be fun if/when he catches up to EH, taps her on the shoulder and says "boo".

[RyterFanClub]

I also want to thank people for the pictures. I'm Jarral Ryter's sister watching the blue dots from Christchurch New Zealand. We know he's superhuman, but... There are the challenges you choose, and there are those you don't get a choice about, and there is a thin line between.

[Pivvay]

Eric and Garrett are killing it! Go Eric S! And Ez too. I wonder if they'll meet up?

Eric S is a MONSTER on the climbs and I'm not joking.

[multisportscott]

Ollie is off, go you good thing.
Don't think he'll have any issues being on his own, he's used to it 

[bikingbakke]

I don't think there's any magic or good "when" moment.  We've seen riders go 190 to 200 plus miles on Day 1 to set a gap and then hold it till the end, we've seen all-night 300 mile rides through Wyoming that didn't quite stick, and then there's the often-used "ride the last 200+ miles in one pull" tactic.  Attacks in this race are days-long, not minutes or hours long like typical/normal bike races, and it's up to each racer to find their own moment.  It took me 4 days, mid-race, Montana to Wyoming, to bridge a 40 to 60 mile gap in 2010, but that was with taking some long (6hr+) sleep breaks.  I will say, however, that mountain passes just after a major town, later in the day, are good moments to "attack" ... you go up and over while others hesitate and stay in town.

But, on the flip side, I think there's just at much emphasis and attention that needs to be paid to "just holding the pace and not making mistakes".  And by "mistake"  I mean: sleeping in at a hotel, or sleeping in while in the warm bivy, ordering dinner at a bar instead of rolling on into the night and losing an hour+ to a very slow kitchen staff, dilly-dally in town looking for the grocery store or whatever, etc..  It's limiting this "mistakes" that gains way more time (or limits loss of time) than picking the right time to "attack".

In addition to Ollie and the Tandem, I know of two other Rohloffs in this years race. 
Georg - http://kgdeck.blogspot.com/2011/05/29er-finished-in-time-for-td-2012.html
Jon Cox - http://www.paradivideride.org/

Are there other Rohloffs?  And anybody riding with Alfina 8 or 11 this year?

For those that have ridden these in the race, did you go with them with the standard oil?  I have one, and have found lighter oils/synthetics do help the feel of reduced rolling friction.  Of course Rohloff would scorn this, but I've experimented a bunch and have found a few improvements I think.  Synthetics leave it a bit quieter too, and with 'sweating' or evaporation or oil loss, it seems to work better with reduced volumes of oil. 

[mbeardsl]

Anyone want to guess where the Golden Spike will be driven this year?  Cjell the North-bounder ain't doing too badly...

I'd stick with my original guess of roughly Rawlins WY.  More distance for SoBo but easier terrain?

[bikingbakke]

In terms of iPhones...I think it comes down to you, either decide to adapt to the realities that technology is here to stay...or you don't.  I know initially there was some grumbling about having gps's instead of using maps/cues.  It seemed like an unfair advantage but people adapted.  For those very few people who wish to and have the capability to set records, possibly it is just another facet of the race that needs to be mastered...possibly there would be more strategy involved.  The bottom line is that effects very few people and for the rest of us, it allows a connection to the world that we are already connected to...allowing us to share our journey with others.  Not necessarily a bad thing in my opinion.

Back to the race!

at the end of the day, the body and the mind matter most.  it's probably easier for most riders to carry iphones, if they chose, than to ban them.  as long as it's a) known, b) accessible, c) not blatantly anti-sporting like doping, that's a level enough playing field it'd seem.

[bikingbakke]

I don't know if there are any Alfine users this year but Tremblay used the 8 in 2010 and I will be out there next year with the 11. I have used the Alfine 8 on my mtb with great success. Good stuff and much more affordable than the Rohloff. Although, there is the obvious compromise in gearing.

is this completely dumb?  using an alfine (or i guess rohloff, but more sensible with an alfine) with a singleator for chain tension and a 2x10 style crankset to give a few options?  I acknowledge it's odd, and might only have certain applications, but was wondering.

[mbeardsl]

I appreciate all of the veterans chiming in on the techno-debate either way.  Good stuff to think about.

My view as a non-racer (yet) is that it really doesn't matter that much to anyone outside the top 5? and really doesn't help anyone more than anyone else EXCEPT that the guy in front is at a disadvantage.  Without phones or computers you are still able to get info from people along the route right?  So you know how far ahead and in what state the guy ahead of you is generally.  I don't see anything wrong with that.  The guy out front has nothing to go on, but he's out front so kudos to him and perhaps that's the price you pay for being superhuman

And at the end of the day it still comes down to good strategy and adapting either way.  If you can see the guy ahead of you is slowing (with or without phones/internet) do you really take it easy and risk that he isn't going to find a second wind?  As a guy in front are you really going to risk slowing when you gap someone by more than X miles/hrs?  Hell no!  

I'm sure I'm missing some of the minutia in strategy the elite racers employ, but like I said for the other 95 guys, does it really matter?

[bbaker22]

is this completely dumb?  using an alfine (or i guess rohloff, but more sensible with an alfine) with a singleator for chain tension and a 2x10 style crankset to give a few options?  I acknowledge it's odd, and might only have certain applications, but was wondering.

Why bother?  You end up with a drivetrain that is similar in complexity, but heavier.  The beauty of an internally geared hub is eliminating derailleurs and tensioners, giving you the simplicity and robustness of a singlespeed drivetrain.

[Joliver]

Is it just me, or is Jarral gaining more ground and catching back up to where he was?  Gonna be fun if/when he catches up to EH, taps her on the shoulder and says "boo".

Yep, I've been thinking the same thing.  During last year's CTR, after we had been riding together for quite some time and were refilling our water bottles, Jarral said something to me like, "Well, it looks like we are going to be riding near one another for a while, so I guess I should let you know that I am diabetic in case you see me sitting on a log near the trail talking to myself."  We both laughed at the time, but what I began to notice is that he would often sleep longer or take more breaks (probably b/c of the diabetes and regulating it and whatnot), but he could also cover ground in a freaking hurry!

Kill it Jarral!

[RobD(NZ)]

I'm enjoying the discussion on the relative merits of 'purity' vs the creep of technology into the race. The addition of new technology does create some issues for those who choose to run with it. Relying on mp3 players, smart phones and the like causes real headaches when the technology goes bad... Battery issues, moisture, gremlins... I rode with 1 person in the NZ Great Southern Brevet who damaged his Iphone on day 2 by a poor packing choice. Simple is often better. Less to go wrong! 

[bikingbakke]

Why bother?  You end up with a drivetrain that is similar in complexity, but heavier.  The beauty of an internally geared hub is eliminating derailleurs and tensioners, giving you the simplicity and robustness of a singlespeed drivetrain.

Indeed.  And that response makes sense.  Not the best idea out there I guess.  I had thought it might a) eliminate the catastrophic mud inspired "wrap around" of the rear derailleur which is often a bit show stopper, b) if such a thing happened with the singleator, it can just be removed and go to 8 gears, and c) be a bandaid fix for being limited to 8 in the first place, in a cheaper way than going to Rohloff.  It's a bit of a scaleable or flexible approach that can have parts removed if they fail, yet still continue on.  Could also even not use a front derailleur and just finger change it twice a day if warranted (or if it failed).

Back to racing, I'm a friend (and of course a fan of Stappy), Tori who did it last year, and know Ryan Correy through his Alberta days.  This thing is dangerously growing on my mind!  Love the US west too.  Hmmm... this job thing... maybe needs a break one summer.

[sluttyduck]

For those that have ridden these in the race, did you go with them with the standard oil?  I have one, and have found lighter oils/synthetics do help the feel of reduced rolling friction.  Of course Rohloff would scorn this, but I've experimented a bunch and have found a few improvements I think.  Synthetics leave it a bit quieter too, and with 'sweating' or evaporation or oil loss, it seems to work better with reduced volumes of oil. 

thanks for reminding me I need to order oil!
I just go with stock, never gave it much thought.

[RonDog]

Cursious who knows how projections are computed for the leaderboard race clock?

[DenisVTT]

Without phones or computers you are still able to get info from people along the route right?  So you know how far ahead and in what state the guy ahead of you is generally.  

Good point! Most of the info I got about the guy in front of me that I was trying to catch up towards the end came from shopkeepers and TD tourers who had seen him earlier. And I even got a lot more info than I would have gotten from Trackleaders, learning not only about this position but also his state of mind, even his diet!

True story: I went into the small store in Ovando. The lady tells me that she saw Craig the day before, so about a day in front of me, maybe a bit less, I don't remember. She says he seemed tired and just wanted the race to be over with. And she adds: "he said he was surviving on burritos!"

A few days later past Roosville into Canada (I was NoBo), I know I'm a lot closer to him, and I meet this TD tourer going the other way.

- Did you see a TD racer named Craig?
- Yeah. Just a few hours ago. He said he had been a bit sick lately, had stomach problems!

I burst out laughing!  I certainly knew why!

[DenisVTT]

Oh, and speaking of unfair advantages, how come the rules don't say doping is not allowed?

Believe it or not, most doping products are legal in the US. It's each sport's governing body that say doping products cannot be used if you want to compete in their events.

[Pivvay]

I suppose it goes back to mike's original goal of limiting rules, doping just is cheating and we all agree. But further we have no way to test it anyway.