TD'12 Race Discussion

[Marshal]

Fun to speculate—

From Craig’s call in several days ago we know he felt that he and Ollie are pretty evenly matched. But we also know that Ollie did not “wait” when circumstances created a small gap. And perhaps the most important comment--Craig felt that riding together offered an advantage. 

Using Craig’s call in as a base line, and from personal experience, ie: I know the longer you ride together the stronger the feeling of ‘team’ -- it might yet be a while before those two spot dots start pulling apart.

And why hurry a break that may not stick.  In this type of a race a real break is very hard to make stick.  If the other rider is close in capability and does not give up or have some type of a problem, up in till the last day he just has to be willing to put in a tiny bit more time to catch back up.

IMO we might not see ‘the break’ (if we ever see one) till deep into NM, as the finish line pressure becomes more real.

So I say NM. 

Or on the other hand--perhaps the easiest way for a break to occur between TEAM "Craig and Ollie" will be one dictated by pure circumstance, which could happen any place/time.

[bikingbakke]

agree w/ bikingbakke and Climb On.

or are they both so comfortable with each other being around for so long and they are both feeling scared to pull away from each other...when will the games begin, sort of boring up there...start throwing punches boys!

I guess at the very least we're all front seat and center to watch it unfold.  They undoubtedly have all day for a week prior, and a week going forward, to stew on the decision, while we bouce in and out of observation and real world tasks.  I know Craig well, and he definitely has both the "every decision and tactic in realtime counts" race mind, and as well the super nice, super positive, every mile we ride is one more quality moment of life type of attitude.  Hearing Ollie on the call ins, but not knowing him, I think I hear similar.

I guess all that adds is that it's this guy's belief that it's not an anticompetitive truce or anything like that; can't take the race out of a racer (or these two!).

The only other window I've had into this race beyond Craig is Tori last year.  She was a finisher yet wasn't in a "tied for lead/course record" scenario, but did adjust her riding at times to be around the comfort of people than the sheer vastness.  Hearing that colors my perceptions of Craig and Ollie's decisions.

Also, this might be a bit dumb, but how much of their position relative to the group are they likely aware of?  Like when you guys who did prior years, did you check into lodges and hit the internet for 5 minutes?  Or just too tired and went for food and sleep and said it doesn't matter cause I'm already riding as hard as I can?  I'm not aware if either of them have iphones or the like.

Also, unfortunate for the cycling spectator, often the most dramatic to watch/boldest race tactics aren't the winningest...

[brunch]

Hi All, Great news!

The Cordillera Volume 3 Is now For Sale!

I'm very excited to let you all know that The Cordillera V3 is now available for purchase. This year's book is just terrific. Anyone with an interest in the Tour Divide will find it exciting, inspirational and educational. Paul Howard was our editor this time around and he really kicked it up a notch... we have pieces by Kirsten from Brush Mountain Lodge, an interview with one of last year's toughest riders Justin Simoni, two first hand descriptions of the Golden Spoke, fiction by Joe Polk and much more. It's a great read.

We're benefiting the college education of Linnaea Blumenthal again this year (daughter of fallen Tour Divide racer Dave Blumenthal). All proceeds go directly into her College 529.

Here's the link to purchase:   http://www.lulu.com/shop/eric-bruntjen/the-cordillera-v3/paperback/product-20209730.html

Below is this year's cover (photo by the incomparable Eddie Clark, design by future TD racer Scott Thigpen):

[Cosmo K]

I tend to agree with Marshal on Ollie and Craig.  I don't see a break happening until New Mexico unless there's a mechanical.  I don't know either of these guys but they are in a race and they are at the front so I would assume at some point one of them will push to win.  Pushing too soon makes you a rabbit.  Some are comfortable with that position, others are not.  Enjoy the ride in close proximity for a while and then at some point, go.

It would be interesting to know if there has been a friendly discussion...something along the lines of, "we're in a race and it's great riding with you but at some point, if I have it in me, I'm going to go for the win as I assume you will too.  Until then, I'm enjoying the company."  Speculation is half the fun in watching this race

[Marshal]

----Also, this might be a bit dumb, but how much of their position relative to the group are they likely aware of?  Like when you guys who did prior years, did you check into lodges and hit the internet for 5 minutes?  ---

I am positive they both know the race is theirs to win or lose and that the record is a real possibility. 

Mixed Feelings:
Speaking from purely personal experience I had “mixed” feelings riding with others. 

On the one hand I could clearly see I was benefiting from having some company. 
I did spend a lot of time, from Marshal Pass on, with 1 racer who’s company I enjoyed and soon felt very comfortable with. Just someone to talk to, share a meal with etc can mean a lot.  Plus from day 1 of the race I was clearly the weakest rider of anyone I was riding near so I was just happy to be keeping up with anyone who was around me.

On the other hand as the finish line got closer and closer the more times when I did feel maybe I should be pushing on into the night etc etc.  And in the end I wanted to race to the finish more than just ride to the finish. Also in my case, riding with others was a bit unusual in that I would still leave 1-2 hrs early each day, knowing that I would be caught each day. (till that last day, hee hee)

[martinh]

Looks like Eric S has gone on a museum visit rather than heading on up to Brush Mountain Lodge

[SlowDave]

Thanks to everyone involved in Cordillera Volume 3.  This is a great thing you put together each year and it is for a great cause.  If you are new to following the TD, this is a must read.  Just placed my order.

[Marshal]

----It would be interesting to know if there has been a friendly discussion...something along the lines of, "we're in a race and it's great riding with you but at some point, if I have it in me, I'm going to go for the win as I assume you will too.  Until then, I'm enjoying the company."  Speculation is half the fun in watching this race

IMO while doing the TDR you either are racing or touring.  If you are racing I don’t think there is much room in a solo event to discuss in any depth deliberately staying together. (Unless you were to do as JP suggested and deliberately ‘say one thing an do another’, ha-talk about giving your opponent an incentive)

Again, from a purely personal point of view--Once in NM and as we neared the finish I refused to talk (or think) much about “the end” of the race.  Loss of focus on the last day of an earlier CTR put a nice 8 inch scar on my left leg and introduced me to the local SAR team. I was not going to lose my focus near the end.  Basically there was no real discussion about deliberately staying together.  There was a bit of chatter about possibly riding across the line together as a tribute to Dave Blumenthal, but I think we all realized that was not meant to be. And I did truly hope that Mat, the rider I spent most of the time with, would catch me a few miles from AW so we could touch our wheels to the border gate together (but I did not let off, even a little, to make that happen)

Not to seem harsh but to me at least, verbalized agreements about staying together all the way to the finish means you have truly ‘teamed’ up in a solo event and are no longer completely racing within the real intent/framework of the TDR.  

[JeffOYB]

Thanks, everyone! I ordered a C3. Supporting Linnea, Paul, Eddy and the gang is a pleasure -- and once I get the treat to read I'll be even more psyched. Maybe it'll even arrive before the Finish! Well, what's great about this race is that the finish thrills often last for a week as various dramatic clusters wind up their races/quests/sagas/stories.

All these speculations on solo-ness versus drama versus records are fascinating. I think the fascination stems from the fact that all the relevant values can and do contradict in various ways and at various points. Life's a paradox and so is racing. Also, appearances can be deceiving... So let's just watch and see what we see... : )

[Snowy D]

OK - I created an account to create a comment because it turns out it's a very small world.  I've been following Craig Stappler from day one, and was pumped to see him leading with Ollie.  I don't know Ollie, but I've been watching him and Craig (well, their blue dot versions) every day, so I feel like Ollie's my friend now too ("Hi, Ollie).
So I mention to friend in Australia that I've been following this race and he should check it out, and it turns out that he's friends with Ollie and has been following these two also.

Cool. Cool cool cool.

[DenisVTT]

Just ordered my Cordillera 3. Thanks to all involved in making this happen.

[ThatDudeOnABike]

I agree. And you have to think about the risk. This is such a long race that maintaining a sustainable pace and staying out of trouble until later is probably the best strategy for someone very evenly matched. There's not that much to gain and too much to lose to push it into the red when it can all be gone in one flat or over-slept morning.

Fun to speculate—

From Craig’s call in several days ago we know he felt that he and Ollie are pretty evenly matched. But we also know that Ollie did not “wait” when circumstances created a small gap. And perhaps the most important comment--Craig felt that riding together offered an advantage. 

Using Craig’s call in as a base line, and from personal experience, ie: I know the longer you ride together the stronger the feeling of ‘team’ -- it might yet be a while before those two spot dots start pulling apart.

And why hurry a break that may not stick.  In this type of a race a real break is very hard to make stick.  If the other rider is close in capability and does not give up or have some type of a problem, up in till the last day he just has to be willing to put in a tiny bit more time to catch back up.

IMO we might not see ‘the break’ (if we ever see one) till deep into NM, as the finish line pressure becomes more real.

So I say NM. 

Or on the other hand--perhaps the easiest way for a break to occur between TEAM "Craig and Ollie" will be one dictated by pure circumstance, which could happen any place/time.

[ride MT]

the real race is for 3rd right now....

[ThatDudeOnABike]

Full disclosure: I'm a JR fan. That said, Jarral is starting to remind me of Ryder Hesjdal, in that he seems to not only plod along, but get stronger as the race wears on, and without that big time loss back in Fernie he could be in a really good position instead of needing to bridge 50-odd miles to the Serge-Jensen-et al. group. Eszter seems to be hanging on--it looked like she was matching his pace and he would be lucky to catch her at all for several days, and now he's slowly pulling away. And though Josh Shifferly looks fully recovered, his group with Babe and Dylan Thomas don't appear to be in any position to bridge up to Jarral and Eszter. Long way to go, but an amazing race.

[Marshal]

the real race is for 3rd right now....

Ah yes the race for 3rd—all that same speculation applies, & the larger the group the more complicated the group dynamics. 

And personally I spend a lot of time bench racing with the racers I know, regardless of their position.  Also I find myself looking quite closely at the racers who’s Spots are tracking along at somewhat similar split times to mine. 

I always work my way thur the Spots' front to back and back to front, thinking about where they are at and what they might be experiencing-------

And if there were SPOT dots for a ‘over 50 category’ (I think black would be the right color for the old & mean ones) I would hardly pay attention to anything else

[Marshal]

You can tell from all my posts today that I am off the road and in the home office--- but just 1 more for a little while then I will leave ya all alone

—anyway it occurs to me that JP’s record might be quite a bit safer than what it currently appears.  It’s getting way HOT and I would not be surprised to see times slow down alot as the need to hydrate & recover goes up.   

[ride MT]

I read Ethan Passant saying that to do well in this type of race "don't ever reach a red-line, ever". I assume this is regarding pacing, effort and heart rate. Does this seem accurate to you all that have done this before? Is there any times when you do put the hammer down, or is it totally off the table to go hard?

[RonDog]

You can tell from all my posts today that I am off the road and in the home office--- but just 1 more for a little while then I will leave ya all alone

—anyway it occurs to me that JP’s record might be quite a bit safer than what it currently appears.  It’s getting way HOT and I would not be surprised to see times slow down alot as the need to hydrate & recover goes up.  

And then there's the NM fire wildcard requiring a reroute. Hope that doesn't happen.

[JayP]

You can tell from all my posts today that I am off the road and in the home office--- but just 1 more for a little while then I will leave ya all alone

—anyway it occurs to me that JP’s record might be quite a bit safer than what it currently appears.  It’s getting way HOT and I would not be surprised to see times slow down alot as the need to hydrate & recover goes up.  

FYI - For my ITT last year, I started off a little slow and took some good rest from the start ( i was worked over and whipped before i even got there, thats another story...). I remember pushing the body a bit through MT. Freezing my arse off through WY. Had an awesome lead from previous record in Steamboat where I had a good rest/layover. From then on I got rained and poured on till Silver City, everyday, every night. I dont think rain is something that really slows you down to much (it actually encourages, especially through the night, to go faster, and since your cooler your body can be more efficient). It is the mud that can stop u, and it did, I had a hell of an epic going to Abiquiu in the middle of the night with a classic hail storm in a heavy clay section of trail (should be interesting to see that split) - thought it was all over!! Pushed though NM with minimal sleep on a mission.
My ride was not hot by any means, very cool. I used 2 water bottles through most sections! Learned a lot last year about the route and myself. Yes, I admit, I want to do it again but need a reason...
Flip side of this is when I did it in 07' it was HOT as balls. And I did have to manage things way differently...carrying 200oz of water and taking more rests to get body temp down and recover.

[mtbcast]

Calls today - Steven Martine called in from Montana High Country Lodge with Gary Beaumont, hanging out at the Montana High Country Lodge. Getting ready to tear up some pavement!
Jim Standsbury called in from Butte. GPS told him he finished the race! He’ll be getting that and his bike worked on. Resting today. He left the cell phone he found at the Comfort Inn. Cjell Money called in from Pinedale. Recounts really tough day yesterday battling strong headwinds – 4 mph, downhill, standing out of saddle! Made it to Pinedale and loving life! Prentiss Campbell called in Big Springs. He’s a little off route but is going to get back on the route.
JD Pauls called in from Butte to say he’s OUT! Eric Foster called in from Helena getting a prescription for the pain. His knee is feeling better, though. He’s going to stop at the bike shop in Butte as his seat is cracked! Max Morris called in from somewhere east of the Tetons. He notes there is no drafting in this race! Mark Farnsworth called in from around Pinedale. This is a rough call but he sounds like he’s doing well. Serge Chiasson called in from the Orange Peel bike shop in Steamboat. He’s had to run around and get supplies since his mail drop didn’t make it. Fred Arden called in from Lima. He recaps his ride as he awaits to replace a tire.

So Max notes seeing two riders drafting. Hmmm...I'm having flashbacks to a couple of riders a few years ago.