TD'12 Race Discussion

[bruce.b]

  >>Someone in this or the pre-race thread mentioned Deanna Adams rode a cross bike in 2009, a fixie no less. She deviated from the route and was relegated,  but she did make it to AW.<<

  Dave Nice rode a Surly Cross-Check fixie and had it stolen while he slept.
  Deanna Adams rode an older road frame, I believe, fixed wheel with an insanely high gear. Too bad she was relegated.

  The only difference between doing it on a mountain bike vs a cross bike like Dave used is the tires, and the Surly Cross-Check kind of blurs even that difference. How about the Salsa Fargo? Designed for drop bars but takes 29er tires. My OS Blackbuck 29er has a 73 degree head angle. Tires are the main difference.

[KootenayB]

Yes, well said bikingbakke, and several others.

As my high school physics teacher always said, "There is more than one way to swing a banana."  I didn't really understand it then, or completely now I suppose, but I think applied to this solo vs. pair issue it means that Frank Sinatra was right and who are we to judge somebody doing something "my waaayyyy...."?  No rule breaking = no issue as far as I care.

Another confusing quote of mine to ponder:  Don't hate what isn't, love what is!

[DaveH]

It's obvious that Ezther is ripping it, but Isn't Katherine Wallace ahead of the Women's Record too? I'm also very impressed with her ride too.

Yep - and T-race is also quite a bit ahead of record pace.  The front 3 ladies are smoking!

Now this business about "solo".  That term really doesn't belong in the rules for a race - it is conflicting and has led to many disagreements over the years.  Self-sufficiency is one thing, solo quite another - and TD is not solo.  You simply can't call an event with 105 starters a solo event.  It's always seemed so obvious to me, but most don't see it that way.

The whole "group ITT" thing started with GDR, and thankfully that term is not much in vogue anymore.  But, the idea behind it was to start together to add competitive motivation to the effort.  That is exactly what the leaders are doing, and is perfectly within the intent of the event's origins.

As for the benefits of riding together - not everyone would benefit!  There are a few anti-social racers that prefer to go it solo and thrive off of it.  You know who you are (finger points back at myself, I'm a big proponent of the ITT)

Groups form every year.  Riders get to choose what sort of experience they want out there, and not everyone thrives in the same environment.  It's all good.

What is really apparent the last couple of years is how much better, across the board, riders are getting at these bikepacking events.  From the front of the field to the back of the field there is more consistency than ever.  That is darn exciting to watch!  Next best thing to participating.

[Joliver]

It's obvious that Ezther is ripping it, but Isn't Katherine Wallace ahead of the Women's Record too? I'm also very impressed with her ride too.

nowayjose, very good point.  I completely agree.  

This brings me to something that I have been thinking about recently.  These ultra distance/multi-day/self-supported mountain bike races are in their relative infancy for the most part.  In order to participate and/or complete a given route, whether it be the TD, CTR, AZT or whatever, one must be strong, stubborn, brave, relentless and persistent, but not necessarily terribly fast.  

However, on the men's side, we have been seeing for quite some time very fast, accomplished mountain bikers (by "accomplished" I simply mean very good xc racers, single day racers, who often are pretty good pros or elite amateurs, etc.) delving into these types of events and putting up pretty impressive records/times in comparison to some of the pioneers.  

For whatever reason, we have not seen as much of that on the women's side...until recently.  It seems like we are currently seeing very very strong, fast, accomplished racers (EZ, LW, etc.) entering these races and completely re-establishing the bar of what is possible.  I think it is pretty freaking cool, and I am really excited to see how these ladies continue to push the envelope! Keep killing it ladies!

[Joliver]

Yep - and T-race is also quite a bit ahead of record pace.  The front 3 ladies are smoking!

Now this business about "solo".  That term really doesn't belong in the rules for a race - it is conflicting and has led to many disagreements over the years.  Self-sufficiency is one thing, solo quite another - and TD is not solo.  You simply can't call an event with 105 starters a solo event.  It's always seemed so obvious to me, but most don't see it that way.

The whole "group ITT" thing started with GDR, and thankfully that term is not much in vogue anymore.  But, the idea behind it was to start together to add competitive motivation to the effort.  That is exactly what the leaders are doing, and is perfectly within the intent of the event's origins.

As for the benefits of riding together - not everyone would benefit!  There are a few anti-social racers that prefer to go it solo and thrive off of it.  You know who you are (finger points back at myself, I'm a big proponent of the ITT)

Groups form every year.  Riders get to choose what sort of experience they want out there, and not everyone thrives in the same environment.  It's all good.

What is really apparent the last couple of years is how much better, across the board, riders are getting at these bikepacking events.  From the front of the field to the back of the field there is more consistency than ever.  That is darn exciting to watch!  Next best thing to participating.

Absolutely agree with you, Dave. 

[bikingbakke]

Eszter's times are smoking too.  I like her call ins, she's got a lot on the mind out there.  They're light and funny.

A truism seems to hold in events - once they're built, they will come.  Intensity level goes up as people apply themselves with more focus and years of gathered knowledge to what was unknown or not understood years prior.

It's like seeing those old TdF pics of the guys with the tubes around their chests vs. the specialist approach now.  

Pioneering spirits, first adopters, bringing it mainstream types, and incessant refiners are all the traits we need out there in mixed proportion.

Various fans also appreciate various eras more.  Some may like the roots of the Tour Divide.  Some may like this year (or the technology that those periods employ, or the numbers of people/consequences thereof).  Some may like Merckx on Roubaix, some might like Boonen's big break this year.  They all excel and have their own merits to savour the details of, the cycling "bible" is incomplete without all these tidbits.

[boneshakerbike]

... it almost seems too negative, or even american style hyper legalism...

Ok, it takes a lot for me to sign up on a stupid forum (not that this forum is stupid, actually a good use of such technology) but this is why. And I realize that I am opening myself up for critical remarks and some hate mail ... so here it goes.

bikingbakke your a big fan of and friends with Craig. That is OK. But there is no need to take stabs at groups of people with negative comments and name calling. It is nice to read everyones opinion on what is going down with Ollie and Craig. For me the two comments that mean anything are from Jilleo and JayP who have done this effort and have a better perspective. My competitive and "anti wheelsucker" side agrees with JayP then my objective and realistic side is with Jilleo. And you know what, on any matter, be it life or racing, these folks seem to have "that perspective". Your's ... not so much (ops sorry, took a jab). I agree there are fewer of us americans who are real cool people, but I respect their opinions.

My opinion? Might as well ... right? It may be that these folks are countering each other. That is the way it is going down in my mind.  Because after all that is what I would be doing ... will be doing. I dont suck wheels but I do pull out "magic" energy from someone who is leading. I love the hunt. But when the time comes I take advantage and let my spirit fly. That is what I hope happens and we see one of them pulling away.

[bjamin]

My legs ache watching the blue dots today. They are flying thru CO.

[kucebags]

So collectively there are many comments on Ollie and Craig riding together even some critiscm. Yet i do not see anyone questioning the packtrain of tourists riding together in the rear.  These groups bringing up the rear are just as much in question of drafting and helping each other than the leaders if not even more so.  Lets remember the roots of the event and have faith that the leaders and the packtrain at the rear are riding responsibly and enjoy the event

My two bits,

[Cosmo K]

Yea, everyone near the front seems to be flying today.  JR is at absolute bikes at the moment.  He seems to be putting in some strong days lately.  Eszter is strong and steady as usual.  

I agree with the comment earlier that the women in this years race are really at a whole new level....that's great to see.  Also, I was comparing Craig and Ollie's daily mileage to Kurt's last year and they are really very close, within a couple of miles per day.  Interesting.

[SlowDave]

It looks to me like the leaders are displaying the highest standards of sportsmanship.  You can learn about sportsmanship here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsmanship

[patrickTsai]

But there is no need to take stabs at groups of people with negative comments and name calling.

I think you may be misinterpreting bikingbakke's sentiments.

I dig this KootenayB

Don't hate what isn't, love what is!

[DenisVTT]

Regarding Craig and Ollie,

I will speak in their defense, they are riding their own races and both are obviously super strong riders.

I had the pleasure of racing with them through the flathead. At times they were separated by anywhere from 40 feet to a 1/2 mile or more. I passed Ollie who was fueling up with some food after bonking on Galton Pass. Craig was  ahead by a 1/2 mile, but when Ollie saw me he jumped on his bike, passed me,  and started pedaling after Craig, he is super competitive. Both stop independently to eat a snack, add or subtract layers, etc. They just so happen to be evenly matched. Their highs and lows must cancel each other out. This is very likely to happen in a race with this many competitors.
Even though occasionally they found themselves riding side by side along with myself on day 2, they shared comfortable silences and focused on the task at hand.

I sincerely wish them the best in their run for the border. They have worked hard for it and I miss chasing them:)

I do hope they there is a decided victor at the border.

Erik L

Great report, Erik. From watching Ollie and Craig's spots it sometimes looked like a team effort but this report changed my mind.

Great race. And congrats to you as well for a terrific effort!

[caseygreene]

Heads up: If anyone lives around the route in rural Colorado or New Mexico, warn the small shops and services that there will be 80ish riders coming through. We've had a few calls and emails from small-shop/restaurant owners in Montana and Idaho saying that they were woefully under-supplied, and in one case (Squirrel Creek Guest Ranch, ID), had to turn riders away due to lack of supplies.

This is not an issue in bigger towns, just the small out-of-the-way services.

[Adrienne]

I am not a rider and a little nervous to write here. However my brother is Craig Stappler. My family, friends and I are so excited to watch him and Ollie each day. What an amazing race! I don't know much about the rules but I do know my brother is one of the most honest and sincere people I know. He would never do anything to question the integrity of this race. I am sure Ollie feels the same way. I do agree that riding the race all by your self with no other contact would be harder. However if either rider was faster they would have already been seperated. I can't wait to watch them at the finish line. So proud!!!

[mtbcast]

Calls from last night: Eszter Horanyi called in from Silverthorne having a special meal!
Blake Bockius called in to say he’s kicking off his ITT today!
Steve Martine called in Squirrel Creek. Doing good!
Mark Farnsworth called in from near Rawlins.

Sorry these are late, Folks. It's been a busy day!

[caseygreene]

I am not a rider and a little nervous to write here. However my brother is Craig Stappler. My family, friends and I are so excited to watch him and Ollie each day. What an amazing race! I don't know much about the rules but I do know my brother is one of the most honest and sincere people I know. He would never do anything to question the integrity of this race. I am sure Ollie feels the same way. I do agree that riding the race all by your self with no other contact would be harder. However if either rider was faster they would have already been seperated. I can't wait to watch them at the finish line. So proud!!!

Hey Adrienne,
Don't worry about what folks are saying on this forum. People get fairly heated about the rules every year (not necessarily a bad thing). It just happens to be focused on your brother right now. No big deal. I'm cheering for him too. He's having a hella ride!

[DeadgoatDevin]

What I see at the front are two extremely exceptional riders and even better people crushing this route.
Records are meant to be broken.

I agree with bikingbakke: as these events become more popular, more people from different backgrounds will be doing them, hence the most current record will likely continue to fall.  Craig is a good friend of mine and is an accomplished racer in many different disciplines.  He was an endurance motocross racer for several years.  What is amazing about Craig is that he is as relatively strong in a 1 hour 'cross race as he is in a 2 hour xc race, 8 hr enduro race or 7 day stage race.  He is not some bikepacking ultra endurance specialist - he can do it all.  I don't know many people that have competitive racer type speed combined with the type of endurance and mental toughness it must take to do the TD.  That's probably why the record is in jeopardy this year.

On top of his physical talents, I can guarantee that Craig is following the TD rules and he is racing to win.  He would not jeopardize a potential record or a win by not following the rules.  You can see Craig's awesome perspective on this event - Yes, he is racing to win, but he is stopping to have lunch and a beer with some fan/future TD racer.  I bet he has had several beers over the course of the race.  I think it's great to see someone putting in this kind of ride while actually enjoying it and taking the experience in at the same time.

I always thought the purity of this event was about participating and watching/cheering for people taking on an enormous challenge.  Now it seems like it is losing some purity due to people being accusatory over following the rules.

Thanks for the post Erik L.

I also want to give a shout out to all the other racers/riders out there.  It is an amazing feat to get from Banff to Antelope Wells regardless of the number of days or hours it takes to do it.

[elitheknife]

I am not a rider and a little nervous to write here. However my brother is Craig Stappler. My family, friends and I are so excited to watch him and Ollie each day. What an amazing race! I don't know much about the rules but I do know my brother is one of the most honest and sincere people I know. He would never do anything to question the integrity of this race. I am sure Ollie feels the same way. I do agree that riding the race all by your self with no other contact would be harder. However if either rider was faster they would have already been seperated. I can't wait to watch them at the finish line. So proud!!!

Craig is indeed one of the kindest, gentlest, most respectful people to roam or race the earth.  No one deserves to be at the front more than him.

[ride MT]

this discussion hasn't even approached being "heated"....ever been on the MTBR forums? I applaud everyone on here for being so polite!