TD'12 Race Discussion

[SimonK]

Another quote from the rule section:

"TD is a solo challenge, however, racing in the company of other challengers is tolerated. Again, no drafting, and each rider must maintain separate gear. "

Exactly. I mean, if the organisers were really concerned about the possibility of people riding together and spliting the cost of accomodation, they wouldn't have a grand depart at all. It'd be individual time trials from the start.

Nothing new in what the leaders are doing, it's just unusual to have two leaders so evenly matched (and enjoying each others company). But don't let the close proximity of the SPOTs make you think they are riding side-by-side all day. SPOTs aren't that accurate.

Given the growth of the field, from year to year we shouldn't be too surprised to see more riders of similar ability hanging out together. This is a good thing imo.

Teams riding would be an altogether different thing - drafting, towing, shared SPOT, maybe one rider acting as a domestique.

[mtbcast]

Calls today: Gary Glunt called in from Seely Lake to say he’s OUT!
Aaron Weinsheimer called in from Rawlins. High winds in the past week, but did about 200 miles yesterday flying through the Basin. Shooting for Brush Mountain next.
Serge called in from Sargents. Headed for Del Norte!
Craig Stappler called in from Platoro. They had breakfast at the Skyline Lodge where Ollie apparently destroyed the breakfast pancake challenge!

[Jilleo]

Here's a photo of Deanna Adams with her fixed-gear Divide cross bike in 2009. Her ride that year on that rig was impressive. It's really too bad she was relegated for veering off route for 40-odd miles near Helena, otherwise she would probably be more deeply embedded in Divide lore. Until Dave Nice wraps up his ride, she's the only one to mostly complete the route on a fixed gear bike.

And yes, I am super impressed with the depth of talent in the women's field this year. I am loving watching them put in strong rides and I'll be excited when the women's record drops below 20 days. Their solid efforts are inspiring.

[DaveH]

The call in from Max Morris is pretty cool.  100 miles in 5 hours thanks to a 30 mph tailwind, that had to have been awesome.

Even more awesome, he said Fixie Dave is in great spirits.  Considering he just finished the basin in the opposite direction as Max - pushing a 30 mph headwinds - wow.  Fixie, you are a beast!  This is your year man.

[Cosmo K]

Relegated or not, riding the TD on a fixie is bad ass.  Riding it on a fixie cross bike, even more so.

[goldenboy]

Relegated or not, riding the TD on a fixie is bad ass.  Riding it on a fixie cross bike, even more so.

Gotta agree.  She is the only person I know of to actually complete the distance on a fixed gear bike.  A few years ago there were some strong mtb riders that didn't get to the half way point.  It is too bad for D. Adams, but she is not forgotten.
I have been following the GDR /TD since the beginnings and love to see how it grows.  AN excellent format and endeavor.  Thanks for the ride stoke everyone.

[bruce.b]

Not to belabor the point, but Deanna did it on a old road bike, NOT a cross bike. It was an old Shogun frame she bought for next to nothing and fixed (in both senses of the word) up. She did put Ritchey cross tires on it since lots of older road frames from the 80's or earlier had plenty of tire clearance. Not that there's really any difference, but there is the fixie ethos to consider.

http://www.xo-1.org/2009/06/deanna-adams-tackles-tour-divide.html

[gramma]

I agree with fully loaded re:Craig and Ollie. If one zooms in there are long distances between them except for when they happen to stop at the same time to eat or call it a day. If you look at any of the other groups, much the same is happening. No rules broken.

[gramma]

right on Biking Bakke

[cousinmosquito]

Yep - and T-race is also quite a bit ahead of record pace.  The front 3 ladies are smoking!

Now this business about "solo".  That term really doesn't belong in the rules for a race - it is conflicting and has led to many disagreements over the years.  Self-sufficiency is one thing, solo quite another - and TD is not solo.  You simply can't call an event with 105 starters a solo event.  It's always seemed so obvious to me, but most don't see it that way.

The whole "group ITT" thing started with GDR, and thankfully that term is not much in vogue anymore.  But, the idea behind it was to start together to add competitive motivation to the effort.  That is exactly what the leaders are doing, and is perfectly within the intent of the event's origins.

As for the benefits of riding together - not everyone would benefit!  There are a few anti-social racers that prefer to go it solo and thrive off of it.  You know who you are (finger points back at myself, I'm a big proponent of the ITT)

Groups form every year.  Riders get to choose what sort of experience they want out there, and not everyone thrives in the same environment.  It's all good.

What is really apparent the last couple of years is how much better, across the board, riders are getting at these bikepacking events.  From the front of the field to the back of the field there is more consistency than ever.  That is darn exciting to watch!  Next best thing to participating.

I totally agree with Dave, when 100 plus people start riding together it seems a bit silly to talk about group riding. The ITT is a different thing. Are the records kept separately? If so, then I cant see a problem. Some of these guys I would think  possibely go better by themselves, not me, but I like the carmarderie of this type of event. It would be the main reason for me doing it. Go Ollie and Craig!

[Marshal]

I am not a rider and a little nervous to write here. However my brother is Craig Stappler. My family, friends and I are so excited to watch him and Ollie each day. What an amazing race! I don't know much about the rules but I do know my brother is one of the most honest and sincere people I know. He would never do anything to question the integrity of this race. I am sure Ollie feels the same way. I do agree that riding the race all by your self with no other contact would be harder. However if either rider was faster they would have already been seperated. I can't wait to watch them at the finish line. So proud!!!

I might have missed something but I do not think anyone has meant to say Craig and Ollie have broken any rules.  Some have suggested ‘they’ would do it differently, which is fine.

I think what Dave H posted up earlier:

 “Groups form every year.  Riders get to choose what sort of experience they want out there, and not everyone thrives in the same environment.  It's all good."  is what most of us accept.  Yes--It’s all good.

Side note: For any non riders out there the one clear no no for TDR racers who are riding near each other is to start drafting.  Over several days drafting can impart a huge speed/effort advantage and in the TDR drafting is blatantly unfair to the other racers and deliberate cheating.

Personally I am sure Craig and Ollie have not been drafting.

And I am more than a little intrigued to see how the next few days play out between your brother & Ollie.

Marshal

[schillingsworth]

The C&O express have entered New Mexico!! Sure makes my workday more entertaining. Way to go out there everyone.

[Pooh]

I agree with fully loaded re:Craig and Ollie. If one zooms in there are long distances between them except for when they happen to stop at the same time to eat or call it a day. If you look at any of the other groups, much the same is happening. No rules broken.

I'm in no doubt that Ollie and Craig are playing by the rules and its intriguing watching how this plays out.  Whenever I check on the spots they are generally apart in space but also in time.  When you allow for the time difference there is usually very little difference in distance between them so it seems to me they are riding together most of the time.  Exception to this in the last 6-7 days was when Craig's legs went on him and he stopped off at a golf course.  If there hadn't been an accident that day to hold up Ollie it would have been very interesting to see what happened. There's nothing against riding together, but independently, in the rules and its clear others are doing the same.  All power to them.  And for the record, as a parochical kiwi I'm hoping Ollie crosses the line first with a new record - but I'll be just as happy to see him cross with his new mate in a scorching hot time.

[JF-mtnbiker]

Any news on Josh Shifferly. His spot is still in Steamboat.

[Newfydog]

The leaders are into New Mexico!  The Colorado section, beautiful as it is, is really perfect for a cross bike.  Lots of smooth, fast rolling dirt, and a fair bit of pavement.  Hitting northern New Mexico is like flipping a switch; it becomes a mountain bike ride.  I like them both for what they are, but don't be surprised if the mileage drops a bit.

[bikingbakke]

Ok, it takes a lot for me to sign up on a stupid forum (not that this forum is stupid, actually a good use of such technology) but this is why. And I realize that I am opening myself up for critical remarks and some hate mail ... so here it goes.

bikingbakke your a big fan of and friends with Craig. That is OK. But there is no need to take stabs at groups of people with negative comments and name calling. It is nice to read everyones opinion on what is going down with Ollie and Craig. For me the two comments that mean anything are from Jilleo and JayP who have done this effort and have a better perspective. My competitive and "anti wheelsucker" side agrees with JayP then my objective and realistic side is with Jilleo. And you know what, on any matter, be it life or racing, these folks seem to have "that perspective". Your's ... not so much (ops sorry, took a jab). I agree there are fewer of us americans who are real cool people, but I respect their opinions.

My opinion? Might as well ... right? It may be that these folks are countering each other. That is the way it is going down in my mind.  Because after all that is what I would be doing ... will be doing. I dont suck wheels but I do pull out "magic" energy from someone who is leading. I love the hunt. But when the time comes I take advantage and let my spirit fly. That is what I hope happens and we see one of them pulling away.

That wasn't intended to jab at anyone (nor did it contain name calling), just wanted to present some thoughts.

We all have our biases - you've identified mine correctly, and JayP's track record makes his even more close to the topic.  The big bias though is for a fair event, an adventure, and for cycling.  Fortunately we're watching a great race - neither is going to "win" by EPO or car rides or sticks in the spokes or whatever other ridiculous stuff can be dreamed up.  Good riders doing well at awesome feats is better for our sport than reading the latest Lance crud in the news.  I'm also aware that collectively,  this forum doesn't have any real jurisdiction!  JayP has done the race (awesomely), I haven't.  My approach to this is out of enthusiasm for the race, the riders, the US west, biking, outdoors, etc.

Not picking sides...  Sure I'm a fan of Craig, but I'm a fan of Ollie's too.  Ollie's calls, his blog, his riding, his ability to eat and incinerate large stacks of pancakes, etc. all seem super solid... it's not a good guy/bad guy thing.  

Maybe my interpretation of this morning's posts was flawed, it's not always easy reading a writer's message.  It's two good guys riding hard, and perhaps not in the way others, or founders, envisioned/prefered/expected.  There's been rule, intent, and grey area debate of good quality.  I think it comes down to furthering the thought KootenayB posted earlier - races and events change... so "don't hate the playa, hate the game"...

So back to NM and it being tougher trail with more "mountain biking" than 'cross riding.  What's the talk from those with experience?  Shed last weight of warm stuff to carry more fluids for last couple of days?  Put a 2L in a pouch that previously had other gear?  It seems further between stops.  I hope if it's more choppy, rockier terrain Ollie has enough air in the rear tire - those Rohloff's are a bit heavier, and are "dead weight" so I've found pinch flatting is a higher risk.  Ride more at night out of the heat?  When would a racer who's done this before consider really ratcheting up the sleep deprivation and going for it?  

The 3-7 are tight too, to me that still looks like anything could happen by one rider pushing forth a bit more, skipping a stop, etc.

Is there a way with the spot system or whomever administers it on the tracker to color code the ones who've pulled differently just to get a snapshot race picture?  Not necessary, but could be a nice feature.

[salsola]

New Mexico is a furnace right now.  Most of the northern half in the lower 90s and the southern half pushing 100 degrees (101 right now in hachita).  A new fire just started near ABQ and although it won't affect the TD route, expect some nervous forest managers.  The Santa Fe forest and the portions of the Cibola forest on the route are in stage II fire restrictions (no fires, cigarettes, etc.).  Stage III is forest closure.  Let's hope it doesn't go that far.  

[DaveH]

Is there a way with the spot system or whomever administers it on the tracker to color code the ones who've pulled differently just to get a snapshot race picture?  Not necessary, but could be a nice feature.

Check out the race flow in Trackleaders.  It takes a little thinkin' to wrap your head around it - but essentially when the lines are flat a rider is not moving.  The steeper the line, the faster the movement.  The trick is you really have to compare line slopes along a horizontal plane, not a vertical ones since that corresponds to the identical part of the course.  If the latter doesn't make sense no biggie, you can still see a lot by looking for slopes and flat sections.

When lines diverge - that is when a break happens.  Those are really interesting...

[vamtns]

Not to distract anyone from the Rules thread or anything    but I'd love to hear about the riders out on the course, from family, friends, or fans.  Tell us something about your rider, it makes it more fun to follow their dots.  Last year we discovered some interesting things about the riders - unusual occupations, accomplishments in sport (or life) prior to the TD, family ties, motivation for signing up for the TD.  Want to hear about back of the pack, front of the pack, and everyone in between!

[cousinmosquito]

Not to distract anyone from the Rules thread or anything    but I'd love to hear about the riders out on the course, from family, friends, or fans.  Tell us something about your rider, it makes it more fun to follow their dots.  Last year we discovered some interesting things about the riders - unusual occupations, accomplishments in sport (or life) prior to the TD, family ties, motivation for signing up for the TD.  Want to hear about back of the pack, front of the pack, and everyone in between!

I am not a buddy of Ollies, but have done 3 events (that I know of) and bunked with him at the Single Speed worlds in Rotorua in October 2010.
The other events were the Kiwi Brevet in 2010 and 2012, both of which he won. The latter in 3.5 days, 1100kms over some pretty challenging terrain. I am pretty sure Ollie is an engineer in Christchurch, the city that was devastated by earthquakes from September 2010 to 2011. He is a very personable guy but is intensely competitive at the same time. I like that in a person.