TD'12 Race Discussion

[annoying crack]

About the first rule "All attempts are intended to be solo" -- that seems like a squishier statement than "no drafting" to me.  It doesn't say "All attempts are required to be solo" or "All riders must start the race intending to ride solo".  I believe others have suggested in the past that if you start solo and happen to spend much or all of the race in the company of another, that's normal, but if you start intending to ride with another, then that's counter to the intent of the race.

I agree that if two people want to ride the Divide together, they should.  I don't think they should be ranked against racers who are at a relative disadvantage to them because they followed the rules and did the race solo.

For example, somebody could create a new set of rules designed for racing as a pair,

So according to the rules both tandem teams should be (have been) relegated because they preplanned to ride together, shared equipment, information,...?

Also many people seem to think that someone is only 'racing' when they place in the top ten or something. Everybody is different and different people have different abilities. Someone may come in 10th place on his/her fast touring pace and someone can come in last and have 'raced' to the fastest of his/her abilities. Who are 'we' on a public forum to say that the person coming in last (or anyone on the race) should not be taken into the results because 'we' think they were not racing?

The great stories and accomplishments in this race is not just Ollies amazing time, but in Fixie Dave, Tracy Burge Georg Deck and the many other who persevered and raced to their maximum capacity.  These people and many other "mid and back pack" give the TD a face and personality, they are the ones i follow.   I have yet to hear one word form the race leaders how these slower riders hurt them or the great race.  Not showing their time or place would be a disgrace.

+1. Could not agree more! And now, I go ride.  

[bmike-vt]

So according to the rules both tandem teams should be (have been) relegated because they preplanned to ride together, shared equipment, information,...?

Pretty hard to go your own way or decide to sleep in or bivy up the road on the back of a tandem.

[fahrenbd]

Pretty sure that Tyson, Aaron and Louis are all in Antelope Wells. Don't have absolute confirmation but I know they were 30 miles away about 1 1/2 hours ago!!!!!!!  their trackers aren't updating.

Way to go guys!!!!!

Diana

[fahrenbd]

Tyson's icon is bouncing at the border!!!!   

Way to finish, you did it

Love,
Mom and Dad

[spcabin75]

Great race Tyson!  Congratulations!!

[febikes]

There's also the social aspect of it - breaking from the group feels almost rude and coming together feels natural (sitting at the same table, swapping stories, etc). The only way I was able to break from any of the groupettos I was in was to literally ride hours more than when my current groupetto would stop. I was also slower while riding in a group and much faster when riding alone.

Well said....

Riding alone is a natural and unnatural part of the TDR.

For me most of my actual riding was alone but occasionally I would pass or be passed by others.  

In one rare event someone passed me then wrote a message in the snow on a mountain pass....  

After reading the message I gave it one more push and passed them back but never found any good snow to leave a return message.  I never actually got to ride with this person but it was fun to know they were out there.

TDR is a great event with true racing that rewards toughness as well as speed.  It's also an event where you are alone and the only real challenge is your mind and your own body.  It's a special kind of event that is so far beyond the scope of "normal" that really the only person who should judge your effort is yourself.  

Even though I did not complete TDR this year I am happy with my ride.  I also enjoyed watching and rooting for TheArtist and others who took their efforts all the way to the finish line.  

[seabrin]

So according to the rules both tandem teams should be (have been) relegated because they preplanned to ride together, shared equipment, information,...?

Also many people seem to think that someone is only 'racing' when they place in the top ten or something. Everybody is different and different people have different abilities. Someone may come in 10th place on his/her fast touring pace and someone can come in last and have 'raced' to the fastest of his/her abilities. Who are 'we' on a public forum to say that the person coming in last (or anyone on the race) should not be taken into the results because 'we' think they were not racing?

Tandems are an accepted category in the TD. You can argue about the definition of 'solo' I suppose, but I think one starts picking nits at this point. And as someone said previously, all lawyer-speak should be banned outright. So I think it's safe to say "two people and two bikes" and "two people and one bike" are not the same thing.

I agree completely with the second point. Using an artificial standard of '150% of the winner's time' is exclusionary. As long as the ride was consistent with the rules, why shouldn't a persons effort be noted? Personally, I think this goes to the larger point of "why one attempts the GDMBR." Ultimately, the outward manifestation (the ride) of the attempt is a byproduct of the internal battle each participant wages against relief from privation. When the will collapses, one's dedication to the ideal of the GDMBR (Cycle the GDMBR end-to-end, as fast as possible in a solo, self-supported fashion.) should be recognized. It is an acknowledgement of the individual turning thought into successful action. Isn't that what we want sport (and life) to be?

[DenisVTT]

I agree completely with the second point. Using an artificial standard of '150% of the winner's time' is exclusionary. As long as the ride was consistent with the rules, why shouldn't a persons effort be noted? Personally, I think this goes to the larger point of "why one attempts the GDMBR." Ultimately, the outward manifestation (the ride) of the attempt is a byproduct of the internal battle each participant wages against relief from privation. When the will collapses, one's dedication to the ideal of the GDMBR (Cycle the GDMBR end-to-end, as fast as possible in a solo, self-supported fashion.) should be recognized. It is an acknowledgement of the individual turning thought into successful action. Isn't that sport? Isn't that life?

Yes, yes and yes to recognition and all that! And yes, 150% is artificial. Maybe it should be 200%. Maybe there should be different finishing time requirements for singlespeed, tandems, etc... Maybe it should be different year to year, depending on conditions. 30 days, 35 days, whatever. But shouldn't it be something? What if you have to take a week off due to some tough issue like a broken collarbone or a broken bike? Yes, bad luck, but that's part of what a race is, no? What if you finish in 60 days? 70 days? The fact that one does it as fast as possible doesn't automatically mean it's a competitive time. Most races that I know of have cut off times. Doesn't mean those who finish outside of it didn't give it their best, or are less worthy.

Having managed the Start List spreadsheet, one thing I know first hand is that most people who declared were well aware of the requirement to finish in 27 days or less to be considered competitive. That's what many wrote as their goal. Others wrote "make the GC".

For a fair rule however, it has to be clear that this is a requirement. If it isn't or wasn't clear, then it shouldn't be enforced.

[spcabin75]

Many riders who were close to the 27 day or 100mpd busted their butts to make it.  Elene raced solid for 23 (or 27) hours straight the last day to make the number, Sara D just missed it as did a couple of others.  When/if i race it will be for that number, as a 59yr old roadie that would be a hell of an accomplishment for me.

[annoying crack]

Tandems are an accepted category in the TD. You can argue about the definition of 'solo' I suppose, but I think one starts picking nits at this point. And as someone said previously, all lawyer-speak should be banned outright. So I think it's safe to say "two people and two bikes" and "two people and one bike" are not the same thing.

I was not seriously trying to start 'a tandem as solo/team' discussion here, sorry if you thought I was.
But wait... that actually proves the point I was trying to make there!
Words (or rules) are up for interpretation by the reader. Lets just keep the negative thoughts off this forum and give the folks who rode (or are still riding) this race the respect they deserve. There is no need to start arguments about wether or not someone should be relegated from this race, we already have the Tour de France for that!

[THE LONG RANGER]

It may be time to move some of this talk to a, "TD Rules" thread and let the, "TD'12 Race Discussion" topic breath a little bit.

[bmike-vt]

a race requires rules, arbitrary as they may be.
the organizers and founders have written the rules.
without comment from the mystical tour divide board, president, chief judge and jury (whatever or whomever that may be), all this talk is speculation.

if you don't like it, roll your own.
i do believe that is how the TD started in the first place, branching out from the original great divide race.

[fahrenbd]

Well, here I am again just wanting to say how in awe I am of ALL the riders who decided to try to do this race.  I think that wanting to race 2745 miles in itself is saying something about the people who decide "This is something that I can do".  It is heartbreaking to see those that had to leave for injuries, illness and mechanical or family problems, or job issues after making that decision.  You are all Number 1 in my book.  I think that is what makes this such a special race, it is in deciding to do it, that separates so many people from those who want to but never make that first mile. 

To those that have finished and will finish, what a great accomplishment, whether you did it in 16 +
days or 4-5 or 6 weeks.  It has been exciting to track all of you as you started your TD 12 race, both the North bound and South bound riders.  You gave us "armchair racers" a little look into the race and it would get very emotional watching from home, running to the computer to check everyone's progress over the last month!!

Thank you to all you great road warriors, you came, you conquered!!!  And to those that did not finish this time, you started and that is the point:-)

Good luck to those still on the road, and I will be watching until all are finished.

You are all hero's in my eyes, thanks again for a great ride:-)

Diana

[Mario]

If you don't draft or share gears and stick to the route, the company of other riders should be OK as stated in the rules. Don't forget you are the sole power that moves your bike, nobody else is doing it for you. Mathew's rules are easy to understand. I think his intent was to have the best personal challenge you can have on your own.
I was seriously thinking about being a starter next year but with all this rule stuff is taking the fun out of it. Riders need to accept the challenge, be honest and ride the divide, it's that simple.
BTW Great ride Fixie Dave… that's the spirit of the race!
Mario

[moosevt]

a race requires rules, arbitrary as they may be.
the organizers and founders have written the rules.
without comment from the mystical tour divide board, president, chief judge and jury (whatever or whomever that may be), all this talk is speculation.

if you don't like it, roll your own.
i do believe that is how the TD started in the first place, branching out from the original great divide race.

+1 Well played (maybe someone can bug Matt Lee and/or whomever should respond to all these issues.)

It may be time to move some of this talk to a, "TD Rules" thread and let the, "TD'12 Race Discussion" topic breath a little bit.

I completely agree with Justin. I am lining up next year and lately all I can think about is how little this thread has to do with watching the riders still on course. I also can't help to think how overlooked they might feel if they flip through this thing and realize that they went somewhat unnoticed.

[woody]

Way to go Iron Mel!!!!!

Woody

[Norb]

Tyson's Blue Dot is bouncing! 

Well done and see you when you are back in Boise.  Love to hear the stories!

Great Job!

[bpeschka]

If you don't draft or share gears and stick to the route, the company of other riders should be OK as stated in the rules. Don't forget you are the sole power that moves your bike, nobody else is doing it for you. Mathew's rules are easy to understand. I think his intent was to have the best personal challenge you can have on your own.
I was seriously thinking about being a starter next year but with all this rule stuff is taking the fun out of it. Riders need to accept the challenge, be honest and ride the divide, it's that simple.
BTW Great ride Fixie Dave… that's the spirit of the race!
Mario

A good part of ultra anything is mental.  Riding in the company of other(s) is totally different than riding by yourself.  At least one other factor is navigation.  When you're alone it's up to you.  When you're in a group, you can't tell me there's not group influence in navigation decisions.  A rookie who's riding with a veteran has a totally different race than the same rookie riding and navigating on their own.

[KPut]

I don't think i'm ever going to do this ride but i enjoy watching and reading about it.  it is just my opinion, but here goes.  Unless you have completed the event, i wouldn't judge or point out things I think anyone did wrong.  Until I've spent 16-25+ days on the trail, i wouldn't try to judge someone else on their ride.  Maybe others feel different.

[spcabin75]

Giorgio A.  Has not moved in 9 days, yet still listed as active?  anyone know the scoop on him.  His relative (brother?) Ricardo is still moving and in Pie town tonight.