TD'12 Race Discussion

[Jilleo]

Now for the divide snowbiking record, Dec. 1st start date. Any takers? (Wink)

Parts of it would be rideable. A few of those roads in Montana and Colorado are definitely trafficked by snowmobiles in the winter. Great Divide Basin and most of the paved sections would be dry. Others, well, nothing a pair of skis, ice ax, and avy beacon can't take care of. A packable sled to haul the bike while skiing? Totally doable.

[mtbcast]

Erik, I think you're "No Speed" idea is inspiring some innovation!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiiI-q-bbE0

[the tortoise]

Ollie's splits the rest of the way

Salida 10:14:22    Del Norte 11:14:03    Abiquiu 12:23:44      Cuba 13:10:23      Pie Town 14:09:44    Silverton 15:12:54    Antelope Wells 16:02:54

3 tough sections ahead
Del Norte into New Mexico (Highest Pass)
Abiquiu to Cuba (Many regard as the toughest section)
Pie Town to Silverton (Beaverhead through the CDT alternate)

Jay's previous record of 17:09:01 which was handily broken by the top 4 riders this year.

[KootenayB]

I don't know whether to be super impressed (once again) by JP's ride or saddened.

No matter if JP ends up breaking the record, it doesn't prove which of the ITT or "cooperative riding" style is faster, as there are way too many variables (weather, hours of sleep, luck, etc.) including that JP might just be faster than Ollie and the others.  A new record doesn't prove much of substance, other than perhaps that there are super fast, ultra-competitive people in the world.

Looking forward to the evolution from the "good ol' days" of a few racers rather anonymously raced the route each year, to large mass starts tracked in detail every movement (bowel or otherwise) via SPOT and smartphones, to some future time when riders just go and ride the damn thing without caring about the world knowing that they did it in whatever time.

And I sincerely hope JP continues his great ride, and moreso that he finds some personal peace from it.

[the tortoise]

Ollie to Del Norte:  11:14:03

JP to Del Norte: 11:04:34

Around a 9:30 lead

Go JP!!

[mtbcast]

Jay Petervary called in from Del Norte. He’s doing good and heading out for New Mexico!

[mtbcast]

I don't know whether to be super impressed (once again) by JP's ride or saddened.

No matter if JP ends up breaking the record, it doesn't prove which of the ITT or "cooperative riding" style is faster, as there are way too many variables (weather, hours of sleep, luck, etc.) including that JP might just be faster than Ollie and the others.  A new record doesn't prove much of substance, other than perhaps that there are super fast, ultra-competitive people in the world.

Looking forward to the evolution from the "good ol' days" of a few racers rather anonymously raced the route each year, to large mass starts tracked in detail every movement (bowel or otherwise) via SPOT and smartphones, to some future time when riders just go and ride the damn thing without caring about the world knowing that they did it in whatever time.

And I sincerely hope JP continues his great ride, and moreso that he finds some personal peace from it.

In the end, this is the evolution of such a race. With all due respect to other tours the TD is just so monumental and people can understand the magnitude. This is just naturally going to draw spectators, fans, and more riders. There's probably no real going back. But, as you note, people can go out there and challenge the route alone. In the end my view is there are variables on both sides and you're not likely to fully quantify the results. Ultimately, we have a finish time.

[annoying crack]

I think 'the tortoise' has too much time on his/her hands and needs to get the bike out and go for a ride of his/her own.

[THE LONG RANGER]

Parts of it would be rideable. A few of those roads in Montana and Colorado are definitely trafficked by snowmobiles in the winter. Great Divide Basin and most of the paved sections would be dry. Others, well, nothing a pair of skis, ice ax, and avy beacon can't take care of. A packable sled to haul the bike while skiing? Totally doable.

If somehow I get a snow bike this winter, y'all watch out.

Richmond Peak would be less than ideal (ie: bat-shit scary traverse), depending on the nature of the snow. It would be a no-go in Colorado-type snow. My feelings are skewed by our dangerous-type of snow.

I would move the start to more around March 1st - April 1st, than December 1st, to get some sort of semblance of stability in the snow. Any place that gets snow, will still have snow, but perhaps it'll have some sort of consolidation. Maybe a S->N direction would make more sense. That gives us ~5 months to plan. WHO'S IN?!

and, GO JAY! Hellafaride.

[T-Race]

Ollie to Del Norte:  11:14:03

JP to Del Norte: 11:04:34

Around a 9:30 lead

Go JP!!

Thanks for keeping track and updating! I totally appreciate it!

[T-Race]

Parts of it would be rideable. A few of those roads in Montana and Colorado are definitely trafficked by snowmobiles in the winter. Great Divide Basin and most of the paved sections would be dry. Others, well, nothing a pair of skis, ice ax, and avy beacon can't take care of. A packable sled to haul the bike while skiing? Totally doable.

Wow Jilleo! Intense, I like it! But do you really think it would be doable in December? I kinda like the March-April idea as it seems there would be more of chance of actual completion rate, the S-N idea too. Hmmm, got me thinkin'...

[SimonK]

No comment about the crows and eagles debate, but I will say I think it's harder to chase a record than another rider.  The record is set in stone.  In a race with another rider either one can falter or get sidelined by a mechanical.  Jay is chasing a number, and he needs to have a near perfect ride to beat that number.

Not so sure he has to have a 'near perfect ride' to beat the record. Remember that Ollie had nasty weather in the first two days, a closed road after Flagg Ranch and a light failure on the last night. And being a Tour Divide novice is bound to result in some minor tactical bloopers. I'd have thought a near perfect ride would be at least 10 hours faster than the current record.

Looking at their times into Whitefish (1:13 vs 2:03) JayP had a 14 hour lead at that point. At Del Norte his lead was down to 9.5 hours. Starting from Banff with a good weather window is clearly a huge advantage.

[T-Race]

I have been thinkin' the past few days about tellin' JayP he should turn around when he gets to AW and ride back to Banff? What do you think of that?? I think it would be the coolest thing ever! Although, I would be insanely jealous and of course would want to do it too!

[Jilleo]

If somehow I get a snow bike this winter, y'all watch out.

Richmond Peak would be less than ideal (ie: bat-shit scary traverse), depending on the nature of the snow. It would be a no-go in Colorado-type snow. My feelings are skewed by our dangerous-type of snow.

I would move the start to more around March 1st - April 1st, than December 1st, to get some sort of semblance of stability in the snow. Any place that gets snow, will still have snow, but perhaps it'll have some sort of consolidation. Maybe a S->N direction would make more sense. That gives us ~5 months to plan. WHO'S IN?!

and, GO JAY! Hellafaride.

I'm guessing there would be a lot more traverses similar to Richmond Peak in true winter. There are plenty of side-sloping roads on the route that would become 50-degree angle slopes at peak snow cover. Down trees and debris would be rampant. One positive about winter is you will have some level of powder, instead of summertime icy concrete turning to slush. You're right that iffy snow conditions and avy danger would be the biggest issue; dragging a sled would also likely be impossible. The bike would have to go on one's back. Either way, I don't really know how to ski ... and in those conditions I'd rather leave the bike at home. ;-)

Agree that Dec. 1 is too early for a test of true winter conditions. Give recent winters' precip patterns, there's a at least a small chance the route will be drier than June.

But I'd seriously love to SPOT-gawk that effort, Justin.

Also enjoying checking in on JayP's progress. Thanks for the splits, Rich.

[Done]

I have been thinkin' the past few days about tellin' JayP he should turn around when he gets to AW and ride back to Banff? What do you think of that?? I think it would be the coolest thing ever! Although, I would be insanely jealous and of course would want to do it too!

Yes, that would be off-the-charts amazing. Setting a record for an existing race is cool--but doing something entirely new is even better. Seems like this sport is ripe for a shake-up like this--and JP's got what it would take to make it happen in good style.

[the tortoise]

I think the lead times are affected by where one stops to bivy vis a vis the waypoints. For example in Salida Ollie slept whereas JP came through during the day and continued on.
Of course Antelope Wells is the true test of time!

[ScottM]

Just a program note -- JayP is on the (sortable) leaderboard, so you can get his splits vs. Ollie's vs. everyone else.  Thanks for posting them here Rich, it's handy.

This is fun to watch.  IMO it's much easier to race a record than a person.  The record is set in stone and the holder cannot correct his mistakes or challenge you once you surpass his pace.

[the tortoise]

It looks like JP should make New Mexico before his night is done! Next waypoint is Abiquiu.

[DenisVTT]

I have been thinkin' the past few days about tellin' JayP he should turn around when he gets to AW and ride back to Banff? What do you think of that?? I think it would be the coolest thing ever! Although, I would be insanely jealous and of course would want to do it too!

The yo-yo route!

Talk about some out and back!  

[Area45]

Erik, I liked your video to. It reminded me of this spoof of the fixed gear scene.

FIX PUSH