TD`13 Race Discussion

[mtbcast]

Overnight: Mike Johnson called in from Steamboat Springs. Brian Jett called in from Dubois. Rick Ashton called in from Crooked Creek Resort. Jesse Carlsson called in from Abiquiu. He apparently blacked out on the route. He remembers a flash and a bang and then woke up in Como! (Storm maybe?) And Chris Ardnt called in from Steamboat Springs.
http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/td13/

[Newfydog]

I will suggest that next year he puts up a sign and possibly maintain a water source to tell TDR riders that they are welcome to camp on his land.

I think this is the sort of thing the event should encourage, as part of the trail evolution.  I've seen it many places----a house on the Trans-Canada which kept a cooler full of water bottles stocked, another with extra fruit and veggies, with signs to take what you need.  Along the Camino Santiago in France a family built a picnic shelter with water for the trail users.  There is a sign south of Whitefish telling GDR riders to camp and stop by.

The race should not discourage this sort of development if it is part of the trail.  ACA can't be expected to keep track of them for them to be legitimate.  If a racer feels that violates his "purity", he can ride right on by.

[JayP]

Another year where I hope it makes everyone think that June is not necessarily the best time to do the route???

Grand Depart, Grand Defart whatever...go and ride when YOU think it is best.

If I were to compare my 2 June departures vs my 2 Fall departures both Fall departures were much more enjoyable. Not saying they were perfect but I can attest to less rain, snow and heat.

I really encourage people to think about this to help spread the love of TD riders all season long. Riding the TD has a season, not a particular date.

[davidhaile]

Another year where I hope it makes everyone think that June is not necessarily the best time to do the route???

Grand Depart, Grand Defart whatever...go and ride when YOU think it is best.

If I were to compare my 2 June departures vs my 2 Fall departures both Fall departures were much more enjoyable. Not saying they were perfect but I can attest to less rain, snow and heat.

I really encourage people to think about this to help spread the love of TD riders all season long. Riding the TD has a season, not a particular date.

I'd hate to be caught in a blizzard on a bike! You'd have to watch the weather more carefully in the fall because of the chance of big snowstorms that come through the TDR area. At least in June you can almost rule out snowstorms. Bad weather is usually just cold freezing drizzly irritating rain and wind and lightning and hail and hungry bears.

[Mathewsen]

I know this is a slightly frivolous point, so no pompous rebukes please, but the anarchist in me would love to see a way for "Yukon" Krauss to end up on top of the General Classification if he is the only person to follow the full route this year.

If Ralph were to run the full route, he would be integrated into the historical GC, but by virtue of impending detours, probably not listed in the 'annual GC'. The `13 'annual GC', which is perhaps more aptly called the grand depart GC, will now be its own 'set' of times. A similar unique set of times occurred in grand departs of 2010 when Polvadera Mesa was closed, and for 2011's all-time record snow. In a good weather year, annual GC and historical GC are one and the same.

The general idea with a grand depart is to compare one's efforts to others under similar conditions. For this reason, back markers have been encouraged to run the same course as the front runners unless additional closures force additional detours (which is more likely than closures opening up). I think if I were not on record pace (as Ralph isn't), I would personally be deferential to my fellow grand departees and take the same course. Ralph is certainly welcome to ride whatever route is legally available to him, but if he doesn't do the same route as those ahead of him (we can only hope there's only one route), he won't be listed in the grand depart GC (which, if he rode the longer harder main route, would only be in fairness to his harder effort).

Unfortunately global weirding along the North American Cordillera has wreaked havoc on Divide racing objectives the past 5 years. Extreme microclimatology seems to have been more of the norm, making perfect conditions along a 3,000 mile stretch a tall order.

[AZtrailertrash]

Another year where I hope it makes everyone think that June is not necessarily the best time to do the route???

Grand Depart, Grand Defart whatever...go and ride when YOU think it is best.

If I were to compare my 2 June departures vs my 2 Fall departures both Fall departures were much more enjoyable. Not saying they were perfect but I can attest to less rain, snow and heat.

I really encourage people to think about this to help spread the love of TD riders all season long. Riding the TD has a season, not a particular date.

It's always best when I am there!  Most of us don't live along the route, Jay, in God's Country, as you do. All you have to do is look at all the motor homes, travel trailers and 5th wheels and RV parks loaded up to capacity with people who live there during the late spring to early fall months. RV parks offer monthly rates... there's your sign. Most of the folks there can live whereever they want, whenever they want, when they adopt the nomadic RV living lifestyle. Snowbirds go south in the winter, T(exas) birds go north in the summer.

[AZtrailertrash]

If Ralph were to run the full route, he would be integrated into the historical GC, but by virtue of impending detours, probably not listed in the 'annual GC'. The `13 'annual GC', which is perhaps more aptly called the grand depart GC, will now be its own 'set' of times. A similar unique set of times occurred in grand departs of 2010 when Polvadera Mesa was closed, and for 2011's all-time record snow. In a good weather year, annual GC and historical GC are one and the same.

The general idea with a grand depart is to compare one's efforts to others under similar conditions. For this reason, back markers have been encouraged to run the same course as the front runners unless additional closures force additional detours (which is more likely than closures opening up). I think if I were not on record pace (as Ralph isn't), I would personally be deferential to my fellow grand departees and take the same course. Ralph is certainly welcome to ride whatever route is legally available to him, but if he doesn't do the same route as those ahead of him (we can only hope there's only one route), he won't be listed in the grand depart GC (which, if he rode the longer harder main route, would only be in fairness to his harder effort).

Unfortunately global weirding along the North American Cordillera has wreaked havoc on Divide racing objectives the past 5 years. Extreme microclimatology seems to have been more of the norm, making perfect conditions along a 3,000 mile stretch a tall order.

Global weirding compared to what?  100 years of climate history, 1000 years of climate history, or how about a million years of climate history? The weather evolves, just as the Tour Divide or Great Divide race evolves.  It is what it is, there can never be a real comparison, too many variables change every single year.

I see it as a life experience, to race it.  You get what you get, weather wise, everyone's experience, due to the time they pass, is different, due to Acts of God or whatever you wish to call it. Snow pack, rain, fire storms, droughts, etc are all variable making it impossible to keep the comparisons of the racers a pure, level playing field for your time trials.  It is what it is, every year may very well be a different course and a different set of circumstances. You'll always be comparing apples to oranges. That Mike Hall is laying down an average of over 200 miles a day so far, for his set of racing conditions and circumstances this year, day in and day out, consistently, that is a course record... my question, certainly is, should a star be next to his name as the first to do so in the record books?  I should think so... a reward for his hard effort... similar to being the first to do a 4 minute mile.  

Let the Refsniders, Petervarys, Halls and others of that caliber of rider discuss it, it affects their records. I'm not fast enough or have put in the effort to be judgmental.  It's still a ridiculous amount of miles covered in an exceedingly short time span. What route you take, due to circumstances beyond your control, should not affect your fate of having your name added to the list or not... you do the best you can with what's been given to you for riding conditions, crazy to hand out penalties of failure in lack of inclusion for acts of nature beyond your control. This is not at all like the Tour De France. The course varies.  Extraordinary effort should always be rewarded, making it to your goal line, be it Antelope Wells or the other, is the results of your effort. We are talking extremely talented and fast riders with mental and physical endurance beyond most any riders comprehension. This is the X Games of Tour Divide, and there are many X factors or variables involved in completing it.  Don't punish one for what is beyond their control. Just note the variance.

[bobloblaw]

It is clear to anyone watching that Mike Hall has been significantly faster than anyone else in TD history - regardless of whether he gets an official record.  And anyone not watching probably wouldn't know even if he did get an official record.  He certainly achieved a "record" to New Mexico, by a significant margin. 

[BobM]

Looks like Brush Mountain Ranch has 3 for brunch!  Looks like Sara caught Eric again.

[seeingspots]

I guess I don't have the competitive edge, I'd always stop for pie. Particularly if I came from another continent. Besides, if Mike comes back and gets a chance at the course record the pie stop has been done now and is optional ... or is it? Now that he's got a taste of it, maybe he'll mess up his next win just for another slice of that delectable pie. Mmm, pie.

[Done]

I think this is the sort of thing the event should encourage, as part of the trail evolution.  I've seen it many places----a house on the Trans-Canada which kept a cooler full of water bottles stocked, another with extra fruit and veggies, with signs to take what you need.  Along the Camino Santiago in France a family built a picnic shelter with water for the trail users.  There is a sign south of Whitefish telling GDR riders to camp and stop by.

The race should not discourage this sort of development if it is part of the trail.  ACA can't be expected to keep track of them for them to be legitimate.  If a racer feels that violates his "purity", he can ride right on by.

Unsupported ultra racing does NOT need dedicated aid stations. Really.

[Gunnar Berg]

It would be interesting to see Cjell running southbound on a geared bicycle next year.

[chainagent]

Hi,

Urgent recall! I am not able to make a call in. No service. Thanks at&t. Yesterday I lost my GoPro Hero3 in the Basin anywhere between mile 30 and 60. The real loss is not the camera, but the SD-card Inside. I am feeling totally blue about the loss. Maybe if someone from MTB-cast is reading this post he can put this post into a call in.
Thanks!!

Michael Gruenert

[sjanes]

For being a self supported, do it on your own no registration, no prize,  "race",  there sure are a lot of rules and regulations......

[SlowDave]

I think we all have our own ideas about what we would like to see in the TD, I do, but we should be mindful that a lot of work goes into this thing by those that carry the weight.  They are not compensated for this.  So even if we would like to see something a bit different we should all thank those that actually make this happen.  Thank you, this race goes through parts of the country that I love dearly and every June this race brings me back to those areas.

[Mathewsen]

I think this is the sort of thing the event should encourage, as part of the trail evolution...There is a sign south of Whitefish telling GDR riders to camp and stop by.

That place is on the maps

The race should not discourage this sort of development if it is part of the trail. ACA can't be expected to keep track of them for them to be legitimate.  If a racer feels that violates his "purity", he can ride right on by.

The problem is, it's not really part of the trail, it's a product of the race and the higher profile of live tracking. It's 'situational angeling' not likely to benefit a late season ITT or the tourists who can really probably use the mental lift more than racers. You're right that riders need to interpret this level of purity on their own, but we'd still like to minimize the temptation to accept targeted aid and stop too often for such distractions. "Alone" is part of the challenge. We'd really like to see riders travel mostly unsupported between the towns with the exception of water resupply.

[PerryD]

C$ is cruising through central MT. Hopefully I get a chance to root him on as he rides by my office in Helena. He should have passed by Yukon somewhere in there. Looks like Yukon's batts are dead in his Spot.

[Mathewsen]

For being a self supported, do it on your own no registration, no prize,  "race",  there sure are a lot of rules and regulations......

Stephen, when you come do a multi-day self-supported race, then you can talk to me about their rules . Rules per route mile, TD does OK in that department.

[BobM]

That place is on the maps
The problem is, it's not really part of the trail, it's a product of the race and the higher profile of live tracking. It's 'situational angeling' not likely to benefit a late season ITT or the tourists who can really probably use the mental lift more than racers. You're right that riders need to interpret this level of purity on their own, but we'd still like to minimize the temptation to accept targeted aid and stop too often for such distractions. "Alone" is part of the challenge. We'd really like to see riders travel mostly unsupported between the towns with the exception of water resupply.

If there had been a cooler full of pop and a box of pizzas at the base of Galton Pass I would have just about cried as I rode by them.  I, for one, do NOT need that sort of temptation. It doesn't help - it hurts.

[mtbcast]

Hi,

Urgent recall! I am not able to make a call in. No service. Thanks at&t. Yesterday I lost my GoPro Hero3 in the Basin anywhere between mile 30 and 60. The real loss is not the camera, but the SD-card Inside. I am feeling totally blue about the loss. Maybe if someone from MTB-cast is reading this post he can put this post into a call in.
Thanks!!

Michael Gruenert

I put a message on the greeting and posted something on FB too. Billy Rice is in Pinedale so he will be through there but others are closer.