TD`13 Race Discussion

[mikepro]

Plenty of folks took longer rests last night (Jesse Carlson, especially).  Lookin' forward to pics/report from the lodge near Polaris where just about everyone seems to be stopping so far.

Note to trackleaders - Mike Hall stopped for ~7 hours last night but a green tent ain't showin' up on his full history page.

[Mathewsen]

Larelsail - pleased to meet you!!  I'm so glad to know you're LP's wife!  Yes, Brian just texted from the Lodge.  We saw that course correction too.  They figured it out quickly.  Nope, no new Spot, so we're really glad Leo has a dependable one and that for now they're still riding together.  Never a dull moment, eh?  

With all due respect for the feelings TD followers may have for their SOs out racing, I am a bit troubled by the frequency of communication between SOs and racers. SPOT tracking was originally introduced to lessen the need for communication with the outside world. One is aiding / abetting a rider's efforts if texting them all day long. Please do not do this more than once or twice a day--if that. These guys need to be left alone to have their wilderness-ish experience. There is no such thing as a participant-observer in self-supported racing. I shudder to think of the subtle assistance that might come thru in these texts. Please, absolutely no race info should EVER be relayed to any rider regarding being off course, breaking other rules, about positioning related to others, about impending weather, etc. You're only selling short the recipient of such info, on what could be...well, more purely about them and their bike. Also, think of the huge disadvantage this behavior puts the increasingly international field at. Many of them are not carrying phones or don't have US service plans. Is it fair to them?

[mikepro]

We saw that course correction too.  They figured it out quickly.  Nope, no new Spot, so we're really glad Leo has a dependable one and that for now they're still riding together.  Never a dull moment, eh?  

I'd like to give them the excuse that the route on Fleecer Ridge was buried in snow and was hard to find, but then again if that were the case they'd have had tracks to follow.   Perfect combo of sorts: Rookies, tired, on Fleecer Ridge, in the dark (their detour was 9pm to 10pm last night) ... and you've got a quarter-mile over-shot, 300 ft more climbing and a 1-hour delay.  Hopefully they smiled about it, but possibly cursed a few.  Certainly no harm done, which is good.

As a fellow Puget Sounder, living in North Bend, I'm following Brian P closely.  Good to see a few other Washingtonians give this race a go, besides our 2009 and 2010 contingent.  I'm an instant fan of WA riders out on the TDR!

[boneshakerbike]

With all due respect for the feelings TD followers may have for their SOs out racing, I am a bit troubled by the frequency of communication between SOs and racers. ...

I agree. What is worse is the new "smart phones". Someone could write a app that a racer can use to track their competition. Which totally would overshadow the wilderness experience. Imagine staring at a screen all day. Not to mention endangering ones-self by not paying attention to the surroundings.

[gramma]

Thanks for stating that. It seems like a lot of racers are spending a lot of time texting. I sometimes wish that Craig would take a phone but he refuses. He believes in the purity of the race.

[JF-mtnbiker]

Wind. It can really effect the mental highs and lows when you are in wide open high country. Mike Hall is probably dealing with headwinds on the rail trail from Island Park to Warm River right now. High winds & high mph gust are forcasted here today. (normal) Once Mike turns toward WY he should pick up some quartering tail wind action. Those same winds will be active in Polaris-Lima-Island Park areas. Good one way, bad another. Pinedale area is luck too. If you have the winds in your favor, you can haul butt through there at 35 mph. But the next day you may be lucky to go 5 mph in the same section. (2012 Northbounders Cjell M. and Fixie Dave suffered to cross the Basin last year but most Southbounders motored it)
 
In addition, The Pine pollen is pretty thick here today. Hopefully Mike has his breathing problem under control now.

[robinb]

I am quite surprised by the amount of racers using cell phones.  I would of thought those seeking the type of adventure that is the TD would relish in getting off the grid and being left alone to do/get your experience.

I found communicating with home during the race can have the opposite effect on you when seeking a morale booster...

[Blackhound]

In 2011 I didn't carry a cell phone and it always felt strange when others used them at stops as were supposed to be alone in an adventure race.  For myself I rarely knew where riders were and I was happy to just pick up bits and pieces at stops.

James Olsen is going well in 4th, he said he was hoping for 25 days so well ahead of that  schedule.

[desertrat]

With all due respect for the feelings TD followers may have for their SOs out racing, I am a bit troubled by the frequency of communication between SOs and racers. SPOT tracking was originally introduced to lessen the need for communication with the outside world. One is aiding / abetting a rider's efforts if texting them all day long. Please do not do this more than once or twice a day--if that. These guys need to be left alone to have their wilderness-ish experience. There is no such thing as a participant-observer in self-supported racing. I shudder to think of the subtle assistance that might come thru in these texts. Please, absolutely no race info should EVER be relayed to any rider regarding being off course, breaking other rules, about positioning related to others, about impending weather, etc. You're only selling short the recipient of such info, on what could be...well, more purely about them and their bike. Also, think of the huge disadvantage this behavior puts the increasingly international field at. Many of them are not carrying phones or don't have US service plans. Is it fair to them?

Mathewsen - thanks for the post.  Brian already cautioned us about the info sharing and his need for the wilderness experience.  We're not "texting all day long". He has checked with me to see if his Spot sent a signal at a location.  But I think your admonition is a good one for all of us who are new to this experience and I humbly take it.   Technology is a double-edged sword...

[desertrat]

As a fellow Puget Sounder, living in North Bend, I'm following Brian P closely.  Good to see a few other Washingtonians give this race a go, besides our 2009 and 2010 contingent.  I'm an instant fan of WA riders out on the TDR!

 

[bikingbakke]

Question from a new "blue dot watcher" - would Mike Hall know Craig Stappler is close up ahead (and would Craig Stappler know Mike Hall is so close behind) or are they out there just doing their own thing, keeping one eye on the horizon for another rider?

Craig doesn't carry a phone or means to see a dot.  Not sure if mike does.  If you read some of this forum a few pages back, the lodge hosts let people know what the guys are up to when they drop in, and it usually includes a little internet session to check this forum, the trackleaders, and probably family emails and such.  

[liney]

I too agree with limiting contact with SO's. My husband calls me about every other day for a few minute chat. His spottracker is set up to send me an "I'm okay" message when he stops for the night. He doesn't even know how to text too proficiently and would never waste the time nor find it necessary. We have been married a lonnnngggg time and don't find it necessary to check in with each other continuously.   He also without fail is a person with the highest of integrity. He would never, ever, for one slight second think of doing anything that is against the rules. Wouldn't happen. When he lost his bike pump, my sister suggested she could contact her nephew in Whitefish to have him take my husband one of his. Nope, I told her - don't even bother - he wouldn't take it from him in a million years. We have a daughter that lives in Denver - would she like to work a little trail magic and have a sighting or brief visit with her Dad? Sure. Would he even allow her to think about it? No way. It is all about doing the right thing when noone is looking.

With that said - and with the technology available with smartphones - the race has taken on a different flavor from the purists that once were the only ones racing the course.  Some are so deeply wedded to technology they don't WANT to give it up let alone feel like they SHOULD give it up. Anyone who wants the info about their competitors can get it whether that is via a smartphone, a stop at a library or whatever. I cannot imagine that will change.

At the end of the day it is all about an epic adventure and one that most in this world will never even come close to experiencing. And truly people have to make it into THEIR OWN epic race and not the race others want or think they should run.  That to me is what is truly interesting and exciting about this event. It is you and you alone that has to decide how to handle the logistics of getting to Mexico - and I for one am rooting for all of them to make it!!!

[Mathewsen]

[jmh]

Killing it!  At Flagg Ranch already.  How fast will he finish?   Under 14 days?

[TruthRider]

... the lodge hosts let people know what the guys are up to when they drop in, and it usually includes a little internet session to check this forum, the trackleaders ...

How is this different than a family member texting the info to a rider?

This issue of smart phones and rider/outside world contact comes up seemingly every race.   Everything I have seen about all of these races are that they are self policed with regards to accepting assistance.  Until (likely never) there can be an ironclad definition regarding whether contact equates to assistance, it seems that it's up to each rider to make their own decisions, and this doesn't appear to violate any specific rule or guidance of the Tour Divide.  The extreme argument could be made that having a friendly conversation with another rider would constitute moral support - and I doubt even the "purists" ride silent the whole time.

[bikingbakke]

spots = if they aren't on emergency, isn't that the "we're ok and don't worry" signal?

[bikingbakke]

How is this different than a family member texting the info to a rider?

This issue of smart phones and rider/outside world contact comes up seemingly every race.   Everything I have seen about all of these races are that they are self policed with regards to accepting assistance.  Until (likely never) there can be an ironclad definition regarding whether contact equates to assistance, it seems that it's up to each rider to make their own decisions, and this doesn't appear to violate any specific rule or guidance of the Tour Divide.  The extreme argument could be made that having a friendly conversation with another rider would constitute moral support - and I doubt even the "purists" ride silent the whole time.

I'm not advocating it, justifying it, just repeating what was reported.  If you look back a day or two, that's what the guys in Polaris said, both were doing little wifi sessions.  It's not different, other than it's not while they're out there. 

I'm not familiar in detail with the divide rules overall, but I recall that it's essentially not ok to get special treatment - ie. your buddies can't leave you waterbottles, etc.  You can however use resources along the way that every rider would have available to them.  The Polaris lodge is available to everyone.  There's guys on this forum who've done this thing before, they perhaps are best to offer up a voice in that regard.

[Angler]

Ovando Montana Jun 19 AM addition.  MUCH slower day for arrivals than previously with 5 guys at breakfast and another two for lunch.  Weather is a good 20-degrees cooler than yesterday with clouds, heavy breeze and rain in the forecast.   As of 0800 to 1300 hours today we've had through:  Matt Slate - KS, Mauro Napallini - UK, J.D. Paul - Ontario Canada, Corey Scheidt - CO, and Velimir Letoja - PA.  Their photos are attached.  And Velimir wants to give a big Croatian "HOWDY!" to his wife Jasminka!  He is doing well.  All the guys are in good spirits!

[Angler]

Just thru Drew McInitosh from TN.  Photo attached.  Daniel is slowly riding along with a split off-sized tire hoping to make it to Helena today to get a new one.  His tire is holding together with duct tape and zip ties.  And incredibly enough was holding air quite nicely.  But he is good spirits.

[Georg66]

These guys need to be left alone to have their wilderness-ish experience. There is no such thing as a participant-observer in self-supported racing. I shudder to think of the subtle assistance that might come thru in these texts. Please, absolutely no race info should EVER be relayed to any rider regarding being off course, breaking other rules, about positioning related to others, about impending weather, etc. ...

My last years' experience confirms that. I sent short messages or a mail via Wifi to my wife every 2nd day (when these services were available), so the information about the race was almost in this direction. We partipicants were not that interested in the status and our places in the race, compared to my friends watching me on trackleaders.
We were too busy with ourselves ... At some places (e.g. bike shops, restaurants) we got very well informed, often the staff told us the exact distances to others (even if we were not interested in that).
There were other racers talking to their spouses many times during the day (during the first third of the route - also using satellite phones) and it is not covered by TD rules, so it is everybody's own decision. To thine own self be true ...