TD`13 Race Discussion

[Canbaroo]

Looks like Liam C has arrived on the outskirts of Rawlings after 20 hours [10am to 6am] in the saddle, an epic ride but as we have seen it's backing up again the day after with just 4-5 hours rest that rewards the brave. Mike H has been able to capitalise on his through the night epic ride and it will be interesting to see if Liam can get by with s short turn around and put his group to the sword.

[Donald]

The really old TdF had some interesting activities, hopefully we will never see some of those on the TourDivide.

As one of the old-time TdF riders famously said, "Do you expect us to do this on water.......?"

[Crow_flies]

Looks like Liam C has arrived on the outskirts of Rawlings after 20 hours [10am to 6am] in the saddle, an epic ride but as we have seen it's backing up again the day after with just 4-5 hours rest that rewards the brave. Mike H has been able to capitalise on his through the night epic ride and it will be interesting to see if Liam can get by with s short turn around and put his group to the sword.

Stonking run - with the (mainly) flat and cool conditions of the night, it hopefully will not have taken too much out of him. Though that's a very relative question after 8 days!

[DaveH]

Calling ahead for a room or a pizza or a wheel is a normal way of interacting with a business. If it happens after the race starts I fail to see any issues. Why the concern? Because it's a no-no in CTR's rules? It's nothing new.

[vistaed]

Hope Craig is OK, he's been stopped a long time.

[Johnny_mtb]

Stappler's spot not tracking? He has been stopped for over 11 hours now.
Jesse Carlsson is flying and actually looks like he might be gaining on Mike Hall?

[Newfydog]

The important thing is that a place like Como Depot commits to treating everyone equally, not simply Hall because he's the race leader.

I can tell you that when we pulled in there, a group of tourists who had come (gasp) all the way from Silverthorn, we were treated like royalty. No one should miss Como.

[MTRoad]

OK SO there is about 150 miles between the SS NB and SB  Scott and Arron have ridden together for two days and are at 1,198 Miles Cjell $ is at 1,350 (coming from the south) so based on the past history both groups are turning out 150 mile days..  will they meet today!!!

Scott and Arron took a longer break than normal yesterday - guess they needed a break? 

[AZLobo]

Remember the NoBo mileage is counting down not up. C$ is sitting on 1520 miles currently. I believe that only Mike, Craig, and Jesse would be ahead based on that. Quite a ride out there on his own, including a frame repair and some much longer sleeps early on. If C$ was as serious as some I have a feeling that he would be scary fast, well scarier than he already is, but then he wouldn't be C$ and we would all be the poorer for it. Burn on riders.

[the tortoise]

Well if you really want to take technology out of the mix the very first thing you would do is to eliminate the spot tracking system from the rider's kit. And then you would only recognize records based upon ITT's Now you take away a lot of stuff that goes on from businesses staying open late, to knowing where other riders are etc etc. Now how many of us blue dot junkies would want that??

In fact if you want to run it as pure as Toby wants it then you shouldn't even announce your decision to do it, so now we just get back to people touring. Wouldn't that be grand! Slowing down and enjoying the route!

Last year, as slow as I was, I didn't even take the little detour to take a gander at Big Fork lake.

The bottom line is people at home can't pedal for you and you can't control the weather or fires or closures. Records are great but if Mike Hall can continue on at his present pace then he might put in a time that most competitive people will look at and say nah I am not even going to attempt it! Perhaps new records should only be recognized that are only 2 hours faster than the previous time!

[elobeck]

Anyone know what's up with Craig? Hopefully just a SPOT issue....

[BobM]

Well if you really want to take technology out of the mix the very first thing you would do is to eliminate the spot tracking system from the rider's kit. And then you would only recognize records based upon ITT's Now you take away a lot of stuff that goes on from businesses staying open late, to knowing where other riders are etc etc. Now how many of us blue dot junkies would want that??

In fact if you want to run it as pure as Toby wants it then you shouldn't even announce your decision to do it, so now we just get back to people touring. Wouldn't that be grand! Slowing down and enjoying the route!

Last year, as slow as I was, I didn't even take the little detour to take a gander at Big Fork lake.

The bottom line is people at home can't pedal for you and you can't control the weather or fires or closures. Records are great but if Mike Hall can continue on at his present pace then he might put in a time that most competitive people will look at and say nah I am not even going to attempt it! Perhaps new records should only be recognized that are only 2 hours faster than the previous time!

Yep, it's a slippery slope.  What about factory-sponsored riders who get prototype components not available to the public and reps that will personally send spare parts at 3am?  Did Stamstad have access to disc brakes, carbon frames, and cuben bags?  Should GPS be banned so that navigation again becomes a component of the race?

IMO it's best to ignore this small stuff and concentrate on "follow the route" and "do it yourself".  If "do it yourself" means Googling it yourself, so be it.  I can tell you from personal experience that knowing where others are and what the weather prediction is does NOT make you go faster - quite the opposite.

[mtbcast]

Richard Costello called in with part 2 from Montana High Country Lodge last night. Drew McIntosh called in from Lima. This call cuts off but goes out to “Chuck!” Scott Thigpen called in from Lima. He had to face the ornery cattle too! And Nick Legan called in from Flag Ranch.
http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/td13/[/ur]

[Done]

There is a way. It's called "unsupported." People have hiked the CT this way; no reason it can't be biked without any resupply or outside intervention. Honestly, I think it would be an awesome challenge. Not one I'd be ready for any time soon, of course. But maybe a shorter route, someday (and probably hiking.) :-)

Yeah, unsupported is great when it works. A lot of people have ridden Kokopelli's unsupported (including me), and it's a great way to do it. Alas, I'm really not sure that it's reasonably possible with longer races like the TD, CTR, AZT, etc. I think the key is to determine how self-sufficient one can go, and still race effectively. Ordering pizzas, tracking other racers, depending on outsiders for information and tactics, etc. just doesn't seem reasonably necessary. Stopping in towns to buy food does. Seems like a simple line to draw--which is why so many people do it.

In fact if you want to run it as pure as Toby wants it then you shouldn't even announce your decision to do it, so now we just get back to people touring. Wouldn't that be grand! Slowing down and enjoying the route!

That is the most inaccurate interpretation of my perspective yet. Intentionally twisting someone's argument into something that it's not isn't just unhelpful, it's actually pretty insulting. If you've got something to say, please say it. But maybe stay away from the absurdities?

[BobM]

Quote from: the tortoise on June 23, 2013, 05:21:11 AM
In fact if you want to run it as pure as Toby wants it then you shouldn't even announce your decision to do it, so now we just get back to people touring. Wouldn't that be grand! Slowing down and enjoying the route!

That is the most inaccurate interpretation of my perspective yet. Intentionally twisting someone's argument into something that it's not isn't just unhelpful, it's actually pretty insulting. If you've got something to say, please say it. But maybe stay away from the absurdities?

Actually, Pete Basinger has taken on the route unannounced in the past and who knows how many others?  Doing it incognito would be the ultimate "no outside influence" race.

[Blackhound]

Stamstad would have to make do with those ickle 26" wheels as well!

Looks like James Olsen's SPoT is not working, can't imagine he has stopped in the middle of the Basin.

[ComoDepot]

One thing Mike did say about GPS is that it does not work very well when you are going down singletrack in the dark!

He also mentioned that he finds a few hours sleep is much more effective, seems he is relying on 5 max, than doing all nighters.

[Done]

Actually, Pete Basinger has taken on the route unannounced in the past and who knows how many others?  Doing it incognito would be the ultimate "no outside influence" race.

Sure, if that works for you, then have at it. But it's NOT my position, is it? Is it your position?

I think that it's very possible to do it yourself while people follow your Spot track. I've done it several times that way, and there was no outside influence.

[DaveH]

That which is watched is changed. I can say with certainty (pun intended) racing in the pre-spot era was much different that post-spot.

Toby, I know you are pro-phone. Let's say you bust your fork and need it replaced mid-race. Quitting is not an option. You get yourself to the first bike shop available but they don't have your fork. What is your next step?

- call other shops to look for compatible fork
- have bike shop employee search on your behalf
- neither of the above, ride/walk/drag bike to the next available shop in hopes they have it

[Donald]

I think that it's very possible to do it yourself while people follow your Spot track. I've done it several times that way, and there was no outside influence.

In science there is something called the Observer Effect. It means that the observer changes the event he is observing. If you check your tyre pressure, you change the pressure you are measuring. A lot of people do not give up on the Tour Divide because they do not want to suffer reputation loss among those who are following them.

If people are following your SPOT, you are not riding alone. You are riding with and responding to the expectations of those who are following you.