TD`13 Race Discussion

[Angler]

And who is our Red Caboose this year, for south bound, on the Grand Departure plan?

So far it does appears that Ralph Yukon Krauss, 40 yoa, from IL, left on the Grand Departure; is the red caboose.  We in Ovando gave up on him long ago but alas it appears he will reach our fair town by late today.  At only 55 miles per day I doubt he'll get any further today. Previously we had speculated it was Javier and Christian who went thru yesterday but here comes Ralph!

[Newfydog]

  I see the IV scandal as ruinous to the race....The sponsors are going abandon it, the prize list will plunge, the podium girls will stop flocking around the riders--- the event may even get dropped from the Olympics.......ummm oh that's right, we never had any of that.

Still, it is an awful smear to an event which has been joyously pure.  Why, other than shear ignorance of hydration would someone get IV fluids before going to the airport?  What do you do when you gotta' go and the fasten seatbelt light comes one?

I'd be more worked up about someone getting an IV during the race, but IV fluids before it just serves to poke holes in your veins and lump a good race in with all the dirty ones. That facebook page is something else.

[DaveH]

I realize that the TD is essentially an unregulated event, but the governing body for professional cycling (UCI) has a rule in place prohibiting the use of IV fluid replacement.  In the eyes of many riders and fans, and in consideration of the rules governing professional cycling, the use of IV's is cheating.  Perhaps this is why many here are in a twist about it.

Ah yes - that I believe was new last year? They were recently banned from Ironman as well.

Good point.

I guess when I read the post it just seemed misguided but harmless...

[BobM]

Ah yes - that I believe was new last year? They were recently banned from Ironman as well.

Good point.

I guess when I read the post it just seemed misguided but harmless...

The whole thing still seems like a really odd hoax since it specifically talked about IV fluid replacement AFTER the race.  I've always found that fluids are replaced pretty easily by sitting in a chair and drinking a lot for a day or so.

[SlowDave]

Maybe it is just me but I sense a different tone in our discussions this year from past years.  To me it seems like we were a little better in the past about self regulating things that are better left to the riders and organizers to work out amongst themselves.  Yes things came up in the past but we were quick to realize we were straying.  In these days when information flows so quickly from us spectators to the actual participants I worry that misinformed or under informed comments could reach a participant and unintentionally impact some decisions being made by riders.  I would hate to be an exhausted rider questioning my own decisions due to some chatter on a website.

[ComoDepot]

I do not get the impression that many riders follow this forum.

[Roland Sturm]

Professional cycling has had a "no needles" policy for more than 2 years by now, came before the 2011 Giro. Not just IV, no needles (e.g. any type of vitamin shot). IV fluid administration is prohibited in any sport under the World Anti-Doping Associations rules (for at least 5 years).

Now bikepacking gets invaded by quacks doing stuff that looks as questionable as anything done in professional cycling, except only amateurish. Bringing bikepacking into the most sordid territory of any sports. Do we want Riccardo Riccos here? So I share extreme annoyance at those suppliers.  

Remember that IV is considered an invasive procedure, for example, licensing laws in California prohibit medical assistants to start or stop IVs (because it is an invasive procedure), even though they can give you a morphine shot. It is not just a quick alternative to drinking something, even if a saline liquid by itself is harmless.  

If it were just a saline drip given days before an event, obviously it has no benefit and only risks. Maybe that's not all there is to it, as evidenced by the other mobile IV outfits. Las Vegas has the "hangover bus", the standard $90 treatment comes with Ondansetron and Ketorolac, $200 includes other "vitamins". It is run by a doctor who presumably has access to more stuff than IV Guy.

Sure IV Guy is super supportive and I'm sure that he'd love to offer his services to ALL riders anywhere. Just what they need for "recovery". Here is his facebook special: "Eric William Foster is nearing his 700th Mile as he approaches Basin, Montana. Tim will be checking in shortly to find out how he is feeling. You don't have to peddle 2745 miles to benefit from our Standby Summer Special! 2 Liters of IV fluid for only $60.00. That is a $40.00 savings! Set up your appointment now!"

IV Guy's post was not a hoax. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Standby-Hydration-Therapy/534440156600883 is full of cheering for Eric, and Eric lists them as a sponsor on his tracking page.

I'm not sure why everyone is in a twist about it, the only questionable thing I see is the advertising in his post, otherwise he's super supportive.

Go Eric! Go Forest! Both remaining triple crown riders will need an IV at antelope wells to accelerate the healing process. CTR comes extra early this year and starts with a bang.

[redtabby]

Unfortunately these days if your in it to win it and know you can't win its easier to drop out.

That's pretty cruel, particularly considering the circumstances of this year's ride.

[SlowDave]

I do not get the impression that many riders follow this forum.

Some participate here while not racing, some families participate during the ride and with so many smartphones these days I wouldn't doubt many are taking a look while waiting for food etc.  In the past I think we were more careful about how and what we discussed.  These days I think that is more important than ever.

dave

[Done]

Unfortunately these days if your in it to win it and know you can't win its easier to drop out.

I'm sure that it was clear whether Craig could have won or not. Sure, Mike was pulling ahead very quickly when Craig quit. But Craig surely knew that there were a lot of miles left and that anything can happen on these long races. All it would have taken was for Mike to have a bad day or two (sickness, mechanical, bonk, etc.), and Craig would have been back in the lead.

I think that it's fairer to take Craig at his word, rather than force crap into his mouth. He said that he quit because he was mentally burned out from 34 days of ultra-racing this year. Sounds reasonable to me. Having only ever raced the CTR and Koko in a year, I can testify that these things can wring you dry mentally. With as many miles as Craig already had under his belt this year, I don't know how he even managed to show up!

I'm sad to see him out of the race. I was enjoying rooting for my fellow Calgarian!

[mtbcast]

Rick Ashton called in from Lima. Karlos Bernart, the Naked Indian, called in to say he’s OUT with ankle issues. Mike Hall called in from Del Norte where it’s not too smoky. Nick Legan called in to say he is OUT! Mirko Haecker called in to say he is OUT with knee issues. And Rich Otterstrom called in from Teton National Park.
http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/td13/

[JRA]

I do not get the impression that many riders follow this forum.

When you say "riders" do you mean racers?

I don't think there are many forum members who are not riders at some level.  I can't imagine there are too many people willing to read this stuff if they don't actually ride.

[jmh]

Day 10 sucks.

[DaveH]

I think that it's fairer to take Craig at his word

For sure - it makes perfect sense, and I've been there. In a call-in Mike Hall referred to Craig's superior form gained from early racing in Trans Portugal. He came it super fit but not without fatigue.

One year I raced all sorts of stuff prior to BC Bike Race, including 2 grand loops and kaibab monster cross 2 weeks prior. By day 4 I was worked. Day 5 broke a rib, day 7 crashed off a structure and broke my foot with about 10 miles to go.

He made the right call, much smarter than I!

[ComoDepot]

When you say "riders" do you mean racers?

I don't think there are many forum members who are not riders at some level.  I can't imagine there are too many people willing to read this stuff if they don't actually ride.

Those riding the Divide.

[JRA]

Those riding the Divide.

You're probably right - they're too busy pedaling! Hah!

[Angler]

When you say "riders" do you mean racers?

I don't think there are many forum members who are not riders at some level.  I can't imagine there are too many people willing to read this stuff if they don't actually ride.

Those that live vicariously thru ya'ahl.   

[Angler]

The Red Caboose Ralph Yukon Krauss has hit Ovando.  The reason for the lateness of his arrival was due to continual chain trouble which apparently he got rectified in Seeley lake.  Will post a photo tomorrow but he is going to continue to Lincoln!  You go Ralph!

[fastmtnbiker33w]

While it sickens me to see Eric F. with an IV in him, I think that maybe we need to educate him about this issue and why it peeves many of us.  He is VERY young and impressionable.  I know he has a lot of stuff going on in his life....school, research, climbing, mountaineering.  From my encounters with him and being a facebook friend of his, I think he is very much a newbie in the sport.  He may not keep track of any other type of cycling than bikepacking. 

I see an IV as unnecessary for race "prep" and definitely unfair if you use it during the race.  If I got so bad with hydration that I needed an IV (Lactate Ringers are awesome.....spoken from having seen, not experienced, their results while in the military) to finish an ultra race, I'd request an asterisk next to my name. 

[Mike K.]

Wow - Happy Monday people!

I'm not usually someone who involves myself trying to influnce others, but after catching up on comments made over the past few days, I have to say something.  If I were racing this year and came home to find comments that weren't positive, informational, and interesting, I'd be quite put out, for sure!

Craig, you are great an did great. You're smart and strong and a real gentleman. I briefly met you in Banff in 2012 and wanted to say thanks fo saying howdy back to this scared racer. Folks, saying negative things about a racer on the Internet is lame. Race the Divde yourself. Save your personal criticism or at least say it in person.

Eric, I know you're a good person and I wanted to say how much I enjoyed talking with you at that campground just outside Eureka that early morning.  Friends laugh every time I tell our story! I'm sure you realize in retrospect that the IV thing reflects a judgement lapse.  When you're ready, I'd encourage you to offer an apology to folks and especially to Matthew.  Folks, people are flawed and make mistakes all the time, it's how you deal ith it that counts. Eric reminds me of a slightly older version of one of my teenage sons. I hope the world accepts both of them just as they are.

Hope all the racers cherish each day out there.

Best,

Mike