TD`13 Race Discussion

[annais]

I cry every time a rider withdraws. Not because they are withdrawing but just because I can grasp the very edge of how hard it must be to have to make that decision.

[Olefin]

This Mike Hall fellow, he's not too bad on a bike is he?

I've just watched him climb the highest peak on the route, now he's going up the second highest. It's what, 11:00pm local time.

[IV Guy]

...okay part II then I am done. Please remember I did not start this off-topic thread, I merely commented on another's post in support of a liter or two of IV fluid when a rider comes down with a stomach virus.  There are no comments to this individuals post which surprised me when I received the attention I did. And lets face it, if you are not interested in IV therapy or anything I am sharing, then you could skip over anything that you want but the fact of the matter is that you can't because you find it interesting... Ya dig?

First off, I would like to apologize to Dave for making an advertisement at the end of my original post. As you can see, that was my first post in this forum and actually my first post in any forum for that matter! I would like to thank you Dave as well for being the mediator and pointing out that we are very supportive of Eric and the others in the race. We at Standby Hydration are very supportive of all our endorsed athletes as we have athletes in other arenas as well. Jose Benavidez Jr. is a top rated Professional Welter Weight boxer that is undefeated; he along with his 17 year old brother are athletes of ours.

Here is the issue: this practice is not accepted in the mountain biking community for reasons that we all know about involving the cycling community.  I have been an avid Mountain Biker for recreation in AZ for a long time, but I understand that its not up to me to try to preserve/ change a whole culture's bad reputation; in fact it is up to me I guess to help a culture understand that this is not a bad thing, in fact in most other sports this therapy is embraced and recommended.  

I am not a supporter of pro ball sports by any means but we can all admit that pockets are deep and they are on cutting edge for performance, and with high performing expectations, recovery is essential. What do you think is going on in locker rooms at half-time and after the game is over on both sides of the field in the NFL?  Just about every boxer/MMA fighter that stands in the ring/octagon respectively a day or two after weigh-ins, is much heavier than their weight while standing on the scale; this in not done by drinking water alone and sitting on the couch; there is not enough time for this to happen.  Fluid straight into the vein is instant hydration whereas drinking water, chocolate milk, cola, powerade all need to absorb and get processed through other organs.  Most of the above mentioned drinks that were thrown out there as examples of accepted hydration drinks aren't used for hydration at all, they are used to spike sugar which another cellular requirement is glucose so I get it, but its a whole other convo!

Have a great night and continue to enjoy the TD!!

[IV Guy]

Awesome Desertrat!

[Newfydog]

What do you think is going on in locker rooms at half-time and after the game is over on both sides of the field in the NFL?  Just about every boxer/MMA fighter that stands in the ring/octagon respectively a day or two after weigh-ins, is much heavier than their weight while standing on the scale; this in not done by drinking water alone and sitting on the couch; there is not enough time for this to happen.  Fluid straight into the vein is instant hydration whereas drinking water,

Thats just wonderfull.  Please stick to your NFL locker room and your phony weight class boxers.  Here we celebrate what a human can do simply eating, drinking, and riding a bike.  

PS I am also an EMT, and consider you a disgrace.

[WalksOn2Wheels]

This Mike Hall fellow, he's not too bad on a bike is he?

I've just watched him climb the highest peak on the route, now he's going up the second highest. It's what, 11:00pm local time.

Just saw him roll across the border. Seriously, what time is it there?

[Olefin]

Going from the tracker, its midnight.

#2156 on 11:54:23 PM (MDT) 06/24/13

Does anyone know if that timezone is correct? I'm not good on US timezones.

[JF]

Yep, pretty sure its ten minutes to 1am and Mike's still moving. Jesse only stopped an hour ago or so.

[bdstew]

It's 1:20am and Mike Hall is still going.
In his around the world cycle, he only slept 2hrs in the last 420 miles into Brisbane, Australia, to which he said "was a bit bonkers"
(Check out his youtube video clip at 1min 15 secs =

WCR Video Diary 40: Brisbane, QLD, Australia

)

[tlideen]

awesome race to witness guys! congrats to everyone out on the trail and keep your head up to those who have thrown in the towel. though you may have not reached the finish you did attend the start and that is a win in itself! very sad to hear people accusing craig of stopping for reasons we do not know about. i have never met the man but i am sure he had his reasons. congrats on a truly inspiring ride until that point! also sad to hear all the fuss about the IV issue. IMHO i do not care what someone does before, during, or after a "race". i think we should all worry about OUR OWN adventures and how we can remember them. after all it is SELF SUPPORTED isnt it? in that case lets only worry about ourselves and not about what others do to prepare for an adventure. i have only talked to eric a few times on facebook and from what i can tell he seems like an awesome dude! i highly doubt he had any bad intentions (if you can even call them that) when doing this. more power to him for getting an IV before an event, like i said we should worry about ourselves. keep pedaling guys!!!!!

[Mathewsen]

I've always been a fan of the original ethos of the race that Matt Lee describes so well, a sort of wilderness brevet in the pure sense of an individual achieving an honorable time on a self supported ride. In that paradigm other riders efforts are respected but the racing aspect is downplayed.

I've not downplayed the racing, only stated there should be no time cutoff, meaning, everyone should be allowed to claim an official finish time if they follow the rules.

I think the 1.5 x the record estimate was meant to define the honorable time for this event, but without categories that's like having Lance in his prime define the honorable time for a local 200k.

I'm not sure honorable is synonymous with 'competitive'. Any finisher who finishes by the rules posts an honorable time.

I think it's important TD remain without many categories. It's not intended to be a mainstream race like triathlons catering to 'age groupers'. If one doesn't want to be compared directly with the elite riders in a grand depart, then one should pick another time to ITT the route.

If Mike finishes in 14 days the "competitive" finish time will be 21 days for men.  Personally, I wish this statement would be eliminated from the rules.  It seems pretty meaningless to tell someone they are not competitive if they finish in 22 days and are in the top half of the field.

Below is a lengthy bit clipped from bikeraceinfo.com on time limits in grand tour racing. TD is loosely going for something along these lines in defining what is competitive. And because >20% of the annual TD field fails to meet what is considered competitive, enforcement of any cutoff is always suspended. As the TD records creep down, as per the below methods, the percentage of the record holders' times allowed the slower riders (for what is competitive) can / will rise, however not by margins that would ever be super inclusive of back-of-the-packers.

"Time Limit: To encourage vigorous riding the Tour imposes a cutoff time limit. If a racer does not finish a stage by that time limit, he is eliminated from the race. This prevents a racer's resting by riding leisurely one day and winning the next. The time limit is a percentage of the stage winner's time. Because it is the intention of the Tour to be fair, the rules are complex. On flat stages where the riders have less trouble staying with the peloton and the time gaps are smaller, the percentage added to the winners' time is smaller. On a flat stage it can be as little as 5% of the winner's time if the speed is less than 34 kilometers an hour. In the mountain stages it can be as high as 17% of the winner's time. The faster the race is run, the higher the percentage of the winner's time allowed the slower riders. The Tour has 6 sets of percentage time limits, each a sliding scale according to the type of stage (flat, rolling, mountain, time trial, etc.) and the stage's speed. If 20 percent of the peloton fails to finish within the time limit the rule can be suspended. Also riders who have unusual trouble can appeal to the commissaires for clemency. More than once Paul Sherwen, now a television racing commentator, was given special dispensation for riding courageously when he had suffered misfortune but bravely continued and yet finished outside the time limit."

[PhiliplerTD]

Spare a though for Alex Harris from South Africa. A real human machine. Doing it for the first time in true South African spirit. Going bones to the wall. Well done Alex. We are all proud of you.

[suezim]

I enjoy this forum and it makes all of us at home feel more apart of the race.  I have always loved going to my sons sporting events to cheer him on and this forum makes me feel like I am "watching" him on the TD.  
He checked in today (he carries a cheap flip phone, no internet capabilities) and said, with a laugh, that he heard I was trash talking on here about other SS riders.  I did not think I was!  But I will comment.....as a proud parent of a NoBo'er.  Last year I figure c$ finished in the top ten but was never listed because the spots are logging north to south.  I found that frustrating.  I don't think my son cared one bit.  But this year I realize that is the nature of the beast.  It is c$ choice to be a NoBo'er.
But I have to say, by my calculations he is riding between 5th and 6th place right now.  And on a one speed!!
He may stop at the US border cuz of the flooding but still will have had a tremendous race.  A proud mom I am.

[Bounce]

x2,745


Mr Hall is climbing La Manga, or is nearly done, - I wonder if he amused himself with taking up the Money challenge.

No, Mike, he did not.

[Canbaroo]

Well said proud Mum, he's doing a great ride as is Alex H [no tent for a sleepover?!]

I'm mildly fascinated by Brit SoBo ITT Kerrin Walker. Cruised along after an early depart [he's on 19 days now] and let Mike Hall go straight past near Pinedale/Atlantic City then jumped on Craig'S wheel for a couple of days without any apparent discomfort. Craig departs and next bloke along is Jesse C so he goes domestique lead out man yesterday and today for Jesse.

Conspiracy theory? Is this some British strategy ...does the guy talk a lot, cause distractions, lulls the chasers into a false sense of disillusionment...  

[Bounce]

It's 1:20am and Mike Hall is still going.

I was just up on La Manga Pass.  It's 42 degrees up there, no wind, big bright moon (probably don't even need a light to see where you're going).  Night riding doesn't get much better than this.

[Canbaroo]

Apologies that was a big word .........

disillusionment (countable and uncountable; plural disillusionments)
A feeling of disappointment, akin to depression, arising from the realization that something is not what it was expected or believed to be, possibly accompanied by philosophical angst from having one's beliefs challenged.

British Lions V Wallabies, Andy Murray winning Wimbledon, England winning the WC in Brazil ... not sure about the cricket!

[annais]

Finding out Lance Armstrong was doping ...

[mathieu]

I've not downplayed the racing, only stated there should be no time cutoff, meaning, everyone should be allowed to claim an official finish time if they follow the rules.

I would be in favor of a pre-stated challenging time-cutoff. The main reason is that the field at the start is getting too big for an underground race and harmful for the TD character itself. A challenging cut would probably reduce the number at the start, even when there is no way to enforce it. Several TD characteristics such as self-supported, no-drafting, remoteness, wilderness-experience become meaningless in big groups.

In my view,  true racers, in contrast to recreational riders, welcome a challenging target. Last year I toured the GDMBR, in no hurry and with a much heavier load than the TD racers. It turned out that my overall average riding speed was 10.0 mph. For a TD racer the 24h cycle of eat-sleep-ride will be roughly 6-6-12, so a 120 miles average day is certainly within reach for many. This amounts to 23 days for the whole route.

As a blue dot junky, I would even enjoy the extra spectacle of more than one cut-off. One of the funniest bike races is where the peloton is on a circuit and at each lap the last rider is taken off. This creates an urgency at the tail of the field that pushes the whole bunch. And as the field becomes smaller, the elite gets threatened too. The TD could set a maximum time at each state line. Of course, any racer may continue in his self-supported endeavor, but he would be scratched from the Leaderboard.

I certainly do not favor age groups. This is a typical symptom of commercial mass happenings, where everyone earns a golden or silver medal in some phoney category. If because of age you cannot compete on a level playing field for all, there is a dignified response: retirement. It happens naturally.

[Olefin]

Sigh!

I don't think I'll be up for beating Mike Hall - that's a 23:56 hour day he just put in. He's strong enough to do that towards the end of the race.

I like a ride. I'd love to camp in the high mountains and watch the moon, but I do like to sleep.