TD`13 Race Discussion

[sjanes]

Ryan Sigsby (rookie) of Boone, NC is Racing The Divide For Kids.   He is currently doing quite well.  Please consider donating to his cause!

http://ryansigsbey.blogspot.com/2013/05/my-bikepacking-and-tour-divide-setup.html?spref=fb

Trips For Kids WNC provides mountain bike outings to youth who would not otherwise have that opportunity.

[Donald]

I would be in favor of a pre-stated challenging time-cutoff.

The two defining characteristics of the TD are that it is inclusive and unregulated. There are only two important rules. Follow the route and do it self-supported. A time cut-off would completely change the character of the race and to what end? The idea that the race is too big for the course is absurd. You can be on your own within thirty minutes of leaving Banff and can keep it that way if you want.

Any cut-off time creates an arbitrary category of failure. It's funny how everybody's idea of a cut-off time is something they think they can comfortably achieve themselves (see Mathieu's formula!).

If the cut-off were falling more than 200 miles behind the leader, we'd all be watching only one blue dot right now.

Categories are necessarily a bit arbitrary but they add interest and meaning to a race. Is gender a fake category? Anyone who has reached the age of 60 knows that age is anything but a fake category.

"Yukon" Krauss is not so stupid as to think he is racing Mike Hall, but he is still in the race. Long may "Yukon", Hall and everyone in between continue to be part of this race.

[Veetack]

I really think this is more of a race against yourself. There are no prizes, no grandstands in Antelope Wells, and no fat checks waiting at the finish line for the "winner" of the grand depart. I listened to Billy Rice's explanation last night and I think he put it really well. Basically, the race is you against your goal, not against the other riders. If I set out to do it in 21 days, and I do it in 19, then in my mind, I just won. Yes it's a race, and let's not forget that, but I think everyone is a little lost on exactly who or what their opponent is.

[ChrisE]

It’s got me thinking.  Thoughts but not many answers.

I’d love to do the TD and maybe I might.  I’d want to do it as a personal challenge to ride the course, unsupported in the best time I could.  I’m 50 and do some 10/15day alpine tours unsupported but no way could ever go as fast as many of the TD front 10 guys and probably couldn’t do it within 1.5 times Mike Halls time.

What I would want to do though is line up at Banff and experience it.  Being in the back 50% I would hope for good camaraderie and a sense of different but shared achievement to the guys who you might see one day, spend an hour with then see again 5 days later at a lodge or diner.  Of course I wouldn’t see Mike Hall or Craig anytime after 5 minutes from the start and that’s fine.  I would see guys from all over the world and share a purpose.  I know I can do ITT any time but maybe that’s not enough of what I want.  Maybe TD is the only way a guy from the other side of the world can get this experiance?

Is it fair that I can’t have that?  Would my ride really detract from the top 10 guys who never saw me after Banff?  Are the guys who are doing it this year for a kids charity, who may well be ‘timed out’ on the 1.5x rule to be discouraged from taking part?

C

[ComoDepot]

Well said proud Mum, he's doing a great ride as is Alex H [no tent for a sleepover?!]

I'm mildly fascinated by Brit SoBo ITT Kerrin Walker. Cruised along after an early depart [he's on 19 days now] and let Mike Hall go straight past near Pinedale/Atlantic City then jumped on Craig'S wheel for a couple of days without any apparent discomfort. Craig departs and next bloke along is Jesse C so he goes domestique lead out man yesterday and today for Jesse.

Conspiracy theory? Is this some British strategy ...does the guy talk a lot, cause distractions, lulls the chasers into a false sense of disillusionment...   

No lead out, they were cycling side by side. Anyway Jesse is Australian and Craig Canadian.

Kerrin has a plane to catch and a job to get back to and intended to hang with Jesse as long as he could to speed his process to the finish.

Some people like Mike are happy cycling alone, others like company, it is very common for rides to come through in groups, you find one or more people who are going at the same pace as you or thereabouts and stick with them. These groups form and reform down the route.

I think Craig would still be in it if he had been able to hang with Mike.

[ComoDepot]

I really think this is more of a race against yourself. There are no prizes, no grandstands in Antelope Wells, and no fat checks waiting at the finish line for the "winner" of the grand depart. I listened to Billy Rice's explanation last night and I think he put it really well. Basically, the race is you against your goal, not against the other riders. If I set out to do it in 21 days, and I do it in 19, then in my mind, I just won. Yes it's a race, and let's not forget that, but I think everyone is a little lost on exactly who or what their opponent is.

Absolutely, just to finish it is a major accomplishment.

I paid more attention last year to the expected times that each person put down and the time taken to get here. Usually the number of days to get here was about how long they had put down for the whole course.

There seem to be many serious contenders who never get this far, wondered whether that was down to the inevitable fact that most will not be able to match initial high expectations. Those with a more realistic attitude seem more likely to finish.

[TooSlow]

It seems unjust to tell riders finishing in 28 days "your effort doesn't count". This event is growing in popularity, which inevitably causes growing pains.

Why not have separate classifications for finishers? Insane, Competitive, Honorable & Turtle.

If the increased number of participants is a problem, then have two (or more) Grand Departs. Everyone aiming for at least a Competitive finish leave on one day. Everyone else, the next.

[mosibiker]

It’s got me thinking.  Thoughts but not many answers.

I’d love to do the TD and maybe I might.  I’d want to do it as a personal challenge to ride the course, unsupported in the best time I could.  I’m 50 and do some 10/15day alpine tours unsupported but no way could ever go as fast as many of the TD front 10 guys and probably couldn’t do it within 1.5 times Mike Halls time.

What I would want to do though is line up at Banff and experience it.  Being in the back 50% I would hope for good camaraderie and a sense of different but shared achievement to the guys who you might see one day, spend an hour with then see again 5 days later at a lodge or diner.  Of course I wouldn’t see Mike Hall or Craig anytime after 5 minutes from the start and that’s fine.  I would see guys from all over the world and share a purpose.  I know I can do ITT any time but maybe that’s not enough of what I want.  Maybe TD is the only way a guy from the other side of the world can get this experiance?

Is it fair that I can’t have that?  Would my ride really detract from the top 10 guys who never saw me after Banff?  Are the guys who are doing it this year for a kids charity, who may well be ‘timed out’ on the 1.5x rule to be discouraged from taking part?

C

Exactly what I have been thinking!

[mathieu]

Any cut-off time creates an arbitrary category of failure. It's funny how everybody's idea of a cut-off time is something they think they can comfortably achieve themselves (see Mathieu's formula!).

No, I am in favor of the '150% of record time' cutoff.
My formula was just to show what pace is realistic. There are no long and strenuous hike-a-bikes on the GDMBR route. But 120 miles a day isn't comfy. This is precisely the point: racers go roughly 12 hours on a day and recreational riders maybe 6-8 hrs. The prospect of the hardships from riding 12 hours each day during 25 consecutive days deterred me from starting in the TD'11.

I don't know RYK. He might well  be a very likeable person, but at average 60 miles per day he is not racing! He is not different from tens of tourers who are out now on the GDMBR. If more of his kind of attitude join the start field, the TD may well get to close.

[Newfydog]

For perspective, the route was originally mapped by Mike McCoy.  He wrote a very nice guidebook for riding the route, reasonable days with good campsites.  
Some riders go faster than his recommended stages, many go slower.  His time frame?  62 Days.

[RonDog]

I would be in favor of a pre-stated challenging time-cutoff... If because of age you cannot compete on a level playing field for all, there is a dignified response: retirement. It happens naturally.

I actually prefer the cutoff that Larry Hipskind mentioned during his callin, "one step ahead of the grim reaper."
Us old guys like a challenge too.

[PretendGentleman]

I've been busy, and have now found the time to put up some images from the start. I did a 6 day casual trip ending when the TD started, the first 2+ days  riding to elksford. On the way back up I deviated from the course and went into kananaskis country via elbow lake pass, which was the most beautiful place I've ever seen. Just prior to the pass, I encountered many road bikers enjoying route 40 that was closed to cars for another 24 hours or so. A funny site to see roadies winding down the middle of a smoothly paved road with no worries of cars. I haven't been too compelled by the thought of 12+ hours in the saddle.  I'm a strong single track rider with my greatest strengths in technical riding as a result of many years as a semi-pro freestyle bmx rider. All this talk, however is building a compulsion, and I may try the trans north georgia race in late August as a result of following this year's TD.












and a bit off topic: here's elbow lake

[richNYC]

I've been following this race since 2007, on and off, and it's interesting to watch how it's subtly changing in nature. Always loved "watching" it (or listening to call-ins and podcasts before SPOT trackers) and have the utmost respect for all the racers.

I kind of get the idea of folks worrying about time limits for their efforts to count at the end but I think that misses the point of the true nature of this race, and this still is a race, self-supported, in the wilderness, relying on your own power and stamina pushing your own limits. As such I think the most participants know it is between them and the route itself: getting out there, eat, sleep and RIDE, and knowing deep inside that they gave it their best... Any kind of worrying about 'official' (whatever that means in this race) ranking outside of maybe winning it, getting top 3 in a given year, or breaking a record, is at best 'mis-guided'...

I may sound a little bit too harsh but if you are doing this race worrying that your effort won't be recognized because you fall outside of the current 2x record time limit, I think you need to re-evaluate if the race is what you signed up for, or if you get at all what the race is about... I just don't get the whole 'fairness' (or 'validation') thing. If you participate, and complete it, no matter where your name shows up, no matter what anybody tells you, no matter if you are included in 'official' records, you know yourself if you gave it your best and nobody can take that away from you;) It doesn't need to be validated by anybody else. 

What I am getting at is that this race started as a simple way to get out there, have fun outdoors (or suffer, depending how you look at it, lol) and measure yourself against the elements, your fellow riders, but mostly against yourself. All this talk about easing up on time limits, different group/age categories is just "diluting" what this race is about. You can always tour it (or fast-tour it) and still have memorable experiences, enjoy the camaraderie of fellow cyclists and raise money for charities. Plenty of people are doing it every year on the Divide route without participating in the race.

Just my opinion, FWIW;)

[elobeck]

OMG.....is that Crazy Larry WITHOUT the "24 Hours of Adrenalin" jacket??

[Majcolo]

I think it's important TD remain without many categories. It's not intended to be a mainstream race like triathlons catering to 'age groupers'. If one doesn't want to be compared directly with the elite riders in a grand depart, then one should pick another time to ITT the route.

The desire to avoid comparison to the elite riders is not a sentiment I've seen expressed anywhere.

The idea is that it would add another level of challenge, opportunity and enjoyment to the race for the serious recreational rider that right now only the pros or semi-pros get to enjoy.

I'm too old, my lifestyle and responsibilities do not permit, and I probably do not possess the genetic potential to challenge an elite pro or semi-pro rider, but I'd like to think I could be competitive with other amateur riders in my category.

An analogy is that when I raced the local town series in Vail almost 20 years ago I enjoyed watching and being part of the beginner and sport class races as much as the expert and pro classes. It's also interesting that people ask about these sorts of stats on this forum every year already.

Just a thought. I have a few weeks blocked out in my calendar to be at the Grand Depart to celebrate my 50th birthday either way.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Angler]

Finally, got Ralph Yukon Kruass' photo up, who looks to be official Red Caboose of the SoBo's 2013.  And he is looking pretty good!  Despite all the rain [.51"] he made it to Lincoln last night.

[mikepro]

Thanks for all the pics Angler!  Looking forward to NoBo rider pics next.

Looking at the blue dots this morning (and the one yellow KW dot), it's clear that a sub-20-day day is some rare-ified air, with only 12 riders faster at this point, 13 counting NoBo C$.  That's roughly equivalent to or slightly less than 10% of the start group.

[Family Guy]

@ Mrs NH - I love your TD update! It's also really good to hear how other blue-dotters are getting on in other parts of the world.

Apologies if this is not really appropriate for this forum and at risk of edging dangerously close to yet another mum forum (i promise - no more), I attach a picture of James Olsen's niece. Feeling neglected with someone else getting all the attention at the moment, she's got a new t-shirt that she hopes will attract her mum's (and Grandparent's!) attention again..

[mtbcast]

Drew McIntosh called in from Colter Bay Village. Richard Costello called in from Mack’s Inn. Rick Aston called in from from Sawtelle Resort. And Peter Kraft Sr. called in from Colter Bay.
http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/td13/

[Angler]

There are those moments that totally surprise you, yet let you know, you're doing something right.  Just now I stepped around the building and  found this message on the cycling board.  As the town of Ovando MT, we're flying high right now.  Marc, whoever you are, Thank You!!