TD`13 Race Discussion

[Jonathan]

. I'm sure we'd get hell for it, but hey...

Makes sense. It's a bike race.

[Nathan Jones]

Am I right that it looks like Mike's moving slow?  Is it just sandy as all get out there or something?  I have trouble believing he's just plain tired and disoriented despite a little bit of backtracking.

[vmjim]

I'm old and slow and when I do the TD again, I doing the Grand Depart with all the riders. I will be courteous to all the other riders, and give them 10 minute head start like last time.  But no time limit rule is going to stop me from riding the TD again.  The TD is about finding one own limit, not riding to someone else's limit.

[lonefrontranger]

Am I right that it looks like Mike's moving slow?  Is it just sandy as all get out there or something?  I have trouble believing he's just plain tired and disoriented despite a little bit of backtracking.

that area is very heavily wooded and steep backcountry. Looks like his SPOT is just hinky in the tree coverage.

[JRA]

I'm old and slow and when I do the TD again, I doing the Grand Depart with all the riders. I will be courteous to all the other riders, and give them 10 minute head start like last time.  But no time limit rule is going to stop me from riding the TD again.  The TD is about finding one own limit, not riding to someone else's limit.

I tend to agree.  
It would be between me, my bike and the course.  And if I did or didn't make a blue dot on a screen, it really wouldn't matter much to me.  

Regardless - 25 days seems pretty liberal if the winners are doing it in 15 or less.  I don't know of any other sport where finishing that far behind the leader would be considered "competitive".

ETA: Don't get me wrong, I think it's a hell of an achievement for anyone who completes the route.

[mtbcast]

Cjell Money called in from Helena. Fred Arden called in from Rawlins. Eric Foster called in from Steamboat Springs. And Drew McIntosh called in from Rawlins.
http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/td13/

FWIW, Eric comments about the saline on his call.

[Jilleo]

Regardless - 25 days seems pretty liberal if the winners are doing it in 15 or less.  I don't know of any other sport where finishing that far behind the leader would be considered "competitive".

Most ultramarathons generally fall into the 2x winning time range — meaning a 100-miler with a cutoff of 30 hours often has a ~15-hour winner, 36 hours and an ~18-hour winner, and 48 hours with a ~24-hour winner. In these races, there is usually a large percentage of the field, often greater than 50 percent, who finish within 5-6 hours of the cut-off, 10+ hours after the winner. For most of the runners, just finishing the race is the achievement they're aiming for, but finishing under the cut-off is a huge part of that. That's why we enter races rather than just go out and hike the trails on our own time. The parameters prompt us to push ourselves harder and really test our limits. I have been timed out of races, told to go home at mile 80 of a 100 miler, and it sucks. But I learn something every time, and have a richer experience for trying.

So, speaking as someone who fought really hard and barely made it under 25 days myself in my own TD go-around, I think a 25-day "cut-off" is fair. If I ever go back, I know I can do better. I'd guess a lot of us could.

[Briansong]

There you have it. The saline deal in this thread has had an effect on a competitor. I feel for Eric, he now has something also to deal with besides the course, the conditions and his seat post clamp. If he felt the need to comment, it's weighing on his mind.

Steve

[Angler]

Looks like Cjell Money will hit Ovando tomorrow......hope hope hope that he doesn't continue on and blow us off so I can't get a photo op.  The interesting this is we have 75 riders from Adventure Cycling arriving around 2 pm for the night and it would be so cool to have them greet him.  But I fear he will be long gone by then.  You listening Cjell?  Slow up!  :-)

[JRA]

Most ultramarathons generally fall into the 2x winning time range — meaning a 100-miler with a cutoff of 30 hours often has a ~15-hour winner, 36 hours and an ~18-hour winner, and 48 hours with a ~24-hour winner. In these races, there is usually a large percentage of the field, often greater than 50 percent, who finish within 5-6 hours of the cut-off, 10+ hours after the winner. For most of the runners, just finishing the race is the achievement they're aiming for, but finishing under the cut-off is a huge part of that. That's why we enter races rather than just go out and hike the trails on our own time. The parameters prompt us to push ourselves harder and really test our limits. I have been timed out of races, told to go home at mile 80 of a 100 miler, and it sucks. But I learn something every time, and have a richer experience for trying.

So, speaking as someone who fought really hard and barely made it under 25 days myself in my own TD go-around, I think a 25-day "cut-off" is fair. If I ever go back, I know I can do better. I'd guess a lot of us could.

Again, I have the utmost respect for anyone who completes this course, and doing it in 25 days is a phenomenal achievement IMO.  But meeting an arbitrary cutoff for a mass-start event and actually being competitive are not one and the same in my mind.

[dp]

The TD is about finding one own limit, not riding to someone else's limit.

Exactly.  Seems like a lot of this discussion of times and cutoffs and Spot dots would matter more to those of us on the sidelines than it would to someone out there cranking away day after day.

[Majcolo]

I'm sure we'd get hell for it, but hey...

I don't think that's a bad idea. As Jill mentioned most organized ultras have cutoffs to be considered a finisher. This race is certainly less organized than most, but there is a great community that has grown up around it that has tremendous value.

I personally prefer age groups (or some other creative category system) without a cutoff because I'd hate to see the Larry Hipskinds of the world discouraged from participating, but I understand your point of view. Establishing 25 days (or whatever number) as the honorable time for completing the TD is a fine idea.

As an aside, I just did the math on the miles per day requirements for my own edification and planning. I had no intention of restarting this debate in this thread and I think you and Scott do a great job.

[Russ Kipp]

Thanks to all the TD riders that stopped by Montana High Country Lodge this year.  I had a problem with my personal computer so I was unable to post any photos for a week but will catch up now.  Also was busy guiding fishermen.  Please let me know if I have mislabeled any photos and I will correct them.  Congratulations to all the TD riders!  # 1

[Russ Kipp]

Thanks to all the TD riders that stopped by Montana High Country Lodge this year.  # 2

[SlowDave]

All you need to know about roads in NM can be learned by looking at the windshield of a car from NM.  As I recall there is a mother of a hill right toward the end of the reroute before the long down hill.  It starts at the ruins of the old town.  Last time I was down there was several years ago after a nasty flash flood and it was a mess.

I think the idea of rando like controls with a cut off is a good one.  Those time limits even though very liberal really keep you moving.

Sorry to hear Eric is stressing over some of the things said here.  These guys have enough on their plates without having to deal with that kind of stuff.  Just because you think something doesn't mean it should be blasted all over the internet.  Restraint should be our guiding principal at such times.

[Russ Kipp]

Thanks to all the TD riders that stopped by Montana High Country Lodge this year.  # 3

[Russ Kipp]

Thanks to all the TD riders that stopped by Montana High Country Lodge this year.  # 4

[Russ Kipp]

Thanks to all the TD riders that stopped by Montana High Country Lodge this year.  # 5

[ComoDepot]

I am reminded of many years ago when I used to to the London to rides.

The London to Brighton is limited to I think 30,000. Many more just do it, it is all on public roads.

If memory serves me right the official start is at 6am so the fast movers would be back in London before many had started.

So what?

[Russ Kipp]

Thanks to all the TD riders that stopped by Montana High Country Lodge this year.  # 6