TDR 2012

[DocTrike]

@T-Race, how was it on the tandem, was there any sections that were hike and bike or that were not feasible for the tandem, what training did you do together to get use to riding the tandem? One video on Youtube suggested you only had a month to get use to the bike.

I am considering a tandem for 2013.

[T-Race]

Riding the tandem was fun! It was all ridable. Good luck!

[DenisVTT]

So has anybody made a start list for 2012 (based on this thread, or some other source)? Any idea how many riders are in right now? How many SoBos? Nobos?

Maybe we should do a shared Googledoc like Justin did for the 2011 results. If enough people are interested, I'll make one.

[BobM]

So has anybody made a start list for 2012 (based on this thread, or some other source)? Any idea how many riders are in right now? How many SoBos? Nobos?

Maybe we should do a shared Googledoc like Justin did for the 2011 results. If enough people are interested, I'll make one.

Does anyone have any idea whether Matthew is going to be updating the TD website, producing a start list, etc?  It would be a shame to duplicate efforts.

[elobeck]

Cool. This is grassroots crowd sourcing. It is too bad that TD admin is maintaining radio silence. There are a lot of people who put in solid efforts last year and would like to know how they stacked up against their fellow racers. It is probable that sorting through the quagmire of routes, directions, and times has proved somewhat overwhelming. Solid effort on Justin's part to plant the seed.

[DenisVTT]

Does anyone have any idea whether Matthew is going to be updating the TD website, producing a start list, etc?  It would be a shame to duplicate efforts.

I have no idea. So far it looks like Matthew is occasionally lurking on this forum but has not actively participated in quite a long time (since last TD?). Let's not forget that he's got a one year old baby. We're less than 3 months away from the GD, I think it's time to talk about Plan B.

As far as efforts, all I would do is a shared spreadsheet with titles, and declared TD starters would complete it themselves (with their names, whether they're SoBo or NoBo, and whether they're GD or ITT.) I ain't going through all 13 pages of this thread (which most of the time doesn't even have the names of the riders, just their forum handles).

[BobM]

I have no idea. So far it looks like Matthew is occasionally lurking on this forum but has not actively participated in quite a long time (since last TD?). Let's not forget that he's got a one year old baby. We're less than 3 months away from the GD, I think it's time to talk about Plan B.

As far as efforts, all I would do is a shared spreadsheet with titles, and declared TD starters would complete it themselves (with their names, whether they're SoBo or NoBo, and whether they're GD or ITT.) I ain't going through all 13 pages of this thread (which most of the time doesn't even have the names of the riders, just their forum handles).

Sounds great!  When it's ready you should also post an announcement of it in the TD LOI thread.

Conspiracy theorists all agree that Matthew is keeping silent in order to escape Forest Service and Canada Parks scrutiny.  "Race, what race??"

[phil_rad]

So has anybody made a start list for 2012 (based on this thread, or some other source)? Any idea how many riders are in right now? How many SoBos? Nobos?

Maybe we should do a shared Googledoc like Justin did for the 2011 results. If enough people are interested, I'll make one.

Denis, that sounds good, do it. :-)

What about Spot coverage? I've got my own. I Guess (hope)  Scott Morris will take care of that.

[DenisVTT]

There you go:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ami9kLAhoE7GdHNKN2xQSTA4T0JiRmMxaUJlc01UbEE

This is a shared document for anyone with the link. If you're in for 2012, just enter your info. I'll occasionally sort the list, do a count, etc...

[DocTrike]

Still researching any technical or difficult areas of the route for a crank forward Mt.trike. I keep hearing about Cross bikes, single speeds, pugs, rigid XC bikes. and a route that was designed for heavy touring bikes and wonder how those machines could do it if it is so technical or challenging.

Please point me to any sections where I might encounter an issue so I can research or go check it out in person.

[DocTrike]

Still researching any technical or difficult areas of the route for a crank forward Mt.trike. I keep hearing about Cross bikes, single speeds, pugs, rigid XC bikes. and a route that was designed for heavy touring bikes and wonder how those machines could do it if it is so technical or challenging.

Please point me to any sections where I might encounter an issue so I can research or go check it out in person.

[DenisVTT]

Still researching any technical or difficult areas of the route for a crank forward Mt.trike. I keep hearing about Cross bikes, single speeds, pugs, rigid XC bikes. and a route that was designed for heavy touring bikes and wonder how those machines could do it if it is so technical or challenging.

Please point me to any sections where I might encounter an issue so I can research or go check it out in person.

Doc, the TD route isn't very technical.

It is, however, challenging!

Sections that could be considered technical include Fleecer Ridge (unless you're on a DH bike and you're crazy, you ain't riding that - but that's about half a mile), the CDT alternate north of Pinos Altos (11 miles of singletrack, not extremely technical but more technical than the rest of the route) and that's really all I can think of. Maybe add some rough terrain along the Spray Lakes Reservoir just south of Banff, and similar terrain here and there in the Gila Wilderness. Also a long climb (if SoBo) with loose sand north of Abiquiu.

The challenges however are countless:

- The climbs can be really, really long (Indiana Pass for example is a 25-mile climb)
- Some of the climbs are steep. Most aren't, but some are.
- There's a lot of washboard
- There are sections that can be under snow. In 2011, we had two 5-mile+ sections of deep snow. No way you ride a bike in that, you have to push. And it ain't flat.
- You probably will see snow on the ground, but you may also see snow falling from the sky. It happened to me in late June just north of Breckenridge, CO.
- There are sections with peanut-butter like mud. You may have to push your bike. Or carry it. For miles!
- 2 deserts and 1 wilderness section with no or little services. (Wyoming high desert: 140 miles without anything - Gila Wilderness: 175 miles with one Coke machine (may or may not work) - Chihuahuan Desert between Silver City and AW: few services, very, very hot weather)
- Days with lots of wind
- Thunder, lightning, hail! In Wyoming, that can be for several days.
- Cold weather, extremely hot weather.
- Rain. Sometimes lots of it. For days!
- Grizzlies, black bears, wolves, mountain lions, rattlesnakes, scorpions....
- Mosquitoes. You stop a couple of minutes in some parts of Montana and they eat you alive. Forget being eaten by grizzlies, you have a much better chance of being eaten by mosquitoes!  
- Dogs. They can be anywhere on the route, but particularly in the south. They can run with you for half a mile. I try to kick them while still pedaling, but I don't know how you do that on a trike.
- Altitude (once you reach the middle of Colorado, you're gonna be above 7,000 ft most of the rest of the way, with summits at 12,000 ft.
- Did I mention lots of washboard? Or climbing?

One thing you can count on: when you get to any kind of difficulty, there will likely be miles and miles of it. For example, you don't just get a mile or two of washboarded road, and then it gets better. You get 40 f*cking miles of it  . The good news is that when you get to a smooth section, it can also be pretty long.

[DocTrike]

@DenisVTT Thx that is what I wanted to know! None of those are things I haven't encountered in my previous travels and rides. Although I don't know if I could go 170 miles without a Soda that would suck! Is there anywhere on the route that would be impassible due to width or multi-track configuration? If so can you describe it? I don't need to have all wheels on the trail, I regularly ride with one wheel in the scrub. Sometimes one wheel in the scrub and one dangling off a the edge of 6000 foot drop.

[DenisVTT]

@DenisVTT Thx that is what I wanted to know! None of those are things I haven't encountered in my previous travels and rides. Although I don't know if I could go 170 miles without a Soda that would suck! Is there anywhere on the route that would be impassible due to trikes width or multi-track configuration? If so can you describe it? I don't need to have all wheels on the trail, I regularly ride with one wheel in the scrub. Sometimes one wheel in the scrub and one dangling off a the edge of 6000 foot drop.

The trike is outside max width of 30" same as allot of DH mountain bike bars. My track width of paired wheels can be anywhere from 27"-30" depending on hubs, wheel build, and trike geometry. Some geometry's with tires 2.1" or more can be as wide as 34".

The CDT Alternate singletrack is fairly narrow but I think you should manage most of it. There are 3 sections that come to mind for difficulty keeping both your wheels on the ground and keep some grip:

- north of Abiquiu. Very loose, sandy trail with deep ruts. I went down it last year (I was NoBo) so I can't say for sure but it seems like some parts were so loose I'm not really sure people could ride it going up (on a regular bike).
- the 40-mile rail trail in Idaho. Very loose gravel and deep ruts, along with heavy washboard
- just north of the Brush Mountain lodge, deep ruts in loose dirt. There are other sections like that here and there, that one is the one I remember most.

[DocTrike]

@denisVTT thanks that's what I was looking for. I don't think the ruts or sandy/loose conditions will be an issue I have done allot of riding in sand on beaches and in Bali and Java (Indonesia). Loose gravel on an ascent would be the enemy of anything where you don't sit over the rear wheel, some crank forwards will have issues with that in extreme conditions.



This is great info and far more informative than reading the maps and cue sheets.

[sluttyduck]

I would say going down richmond is not going to be fun.
Off and on snow drifts, small saplings at shin height(to a mountain biker), very narrow, and loose rocks

[Thumby]

A trike on the CDT would be horrible.  It really is a very narrow hiking trail, with a very steep intro.  Much of it where I walked, my wheels were on the trail while my feet were off on the steep slope. Often, it's likely the trail is narrower than the trike is wide, with doozy of a first step down.  Fleecer too, the downhill (SB) would be treacherous but I'm sure you'd find a way to do it.  Random acts of forestry (felled trees across the trail) would be a good workout.  We had a lot of that in Montana, waist-high works in progress.  
My 2 cents on the technical aspect, not trike specific:  Most of TD is not very technical.  But where it is technical, it can be enough to cause an unprepared rider major headaches.  

[sheilar]

Ditto CDT! Really narrow off camber and off trail is cactus territory. All of that is after you have carried, pushed or thrown your bike ahead of you up the virtual wall near the CDT start.
sr

[DocTrike]

I have been talking with several race finishers, Adventure Cycling, and Scott at GDR about trail conditions so Far I have heard that there would be on restrictions on the trail by width. It was my understanding according to the ACA this trail was mapped for touting bikes with trailers. In fact I was sured by an organizer that a sociable tandem would have no issues that beast is 48 inches wide.

Luckily I am looking at a very light bikes under 24 pounds dry and easy to carry, I do it all the time in Asia through bamboo woods.

Has the route deviated from its origins now?

[rooster14]

just updated my info to the TD startlist on google docs.  cant wait to see you all there!