tents and bivys and towns, oh my...

[eec]

I just finished up reading through the old TDR Basics thread and one topic that was brought up got me rethinking my sleep system, AGAIN.
Someone said to pack the system that will get you through town, at night, in bad weather, etc., instead of bailing and staying in a motel. My plan is to camp as much as possible, and my initial system was a UL 1-P tent + bag. I've now changed it to bivy + bag. The bivy is a tad lighter and easier to set up. It's tolerable in cold/cool temps, but is fairly intolerable in warmer temps. So I've been thinking of sending the bivy home and having the tent at a PO drop (where?).

BUT, when I think about which system would get me to push through town, it begs the question: ease of set up, or comfort? The bivy seems easier to set up when it's late and I'm tired, or the weather is bad, but the tent would be more comfortable.

What is it that gets you guys/gals to push through town?

edit: this was meant to be posted in the TDR Prep thread, so if it can be moved, please do so.

[Ailuropoda]

I never regretted having a tent, in my case a Tarptent Rainbow.    Sure, it takes me about five minutes to set up when I'm tired but it it very light (less than two pounds) and provided complete protection from the elements.  I slept very comfortably in it during rainy nights.   And it is big enough to sit up in, get in and out of clothes, and deploy the sleep system (blow up the mat).     It could easily sleep two people who were either married or really good friends.   

Maybe it weighs a pound more than a bivvy.

I just like to be comfortable at night.  On my next attempt in 2019 I am going to ruthlessly trim weight from my gear (and going Northbound will help) but I'm going to take the tent. 

[THE LONG RANGER]

I moved full-time bivy because of the TD, and in 7 years, haven't looked back. The only change I've made really is the addition of a simple waterproof tarp, and moving from a bivy that's mostly waterproof, to one that's mostly not - this stops me from waking up soaked in my own perspiration. The idea is that if you don't need to put up the tarp: DON'T. Even without a tarp, it usually wasn't impossible to find some sort of natural shelter (pine trees) to keep the worst of it from hitting me. If you're trying to move fast, I really think this is the way to go. If the weather is completely terrible, a choice could be to just ride right through it, until shelter is found/the weather lets up - that's sort of the Blitzkrieg way of going about things. My bivy is 200 grams, and the tarp is 300 grams.

If you go SB, the weather will get increasingly more warmer and drier, so if you think you require a shelter, I would bring it for the beginning, with an eye to mail it back ~Salida or so. Same with the sleeping bag - start with maybe a  an additional sleeping bag liner, then decide if the extra heat it gives you is required, or even wanted. But, if you want to go really fast, just suffer at the beginning.

[Majcolo]

Just remember when you're pushing that hard for that long, time off the bike needs to be recovery time. If you can't sleep, you can't recover. Don't rely on a system that won't let you get good rest, even if you're only off the bike for a couple of hours.

Test well before you decide.

[ascar_larkinyar]

I carry a bivy and a lightweight net.  I can use both or either.  Options for comfort and different temps.

[eec]

I carry a bivy and a lightweight net.  I can use both or either.  Options for comfort and different temps.

Can you elaborate on the "lightweight net"?

[wolfmansbro]

I've never really understood the argument against Bivy's for bike packing. Sure a tent is a nice luxury item, but this is technically a "race." You are not hanging out in your tent playing card games or reading a book. Whenever I Bikepack I will bring a Bivy, but more often than not it is used as a ground cloth. If it's not raining I'm not in the bivy, just the sleeping bag. If it starts to rain you crawl into the bivy for a couple hours before starting to move again. Now if you are off on some uncharted ride, more expedition style I can understand it but something like the tour divide that has endless beta it's easy to calculate how far the next warm shelter is and just keep moving.

I guess living in a desert environment has change my perception over the years but that's just my .02.

[dh024]

I've never really understood the argument against Bivy's for bike packing. Sure a tent is a nice luxury item, but this is technically a "race." You are not hanging out in your tent playing card games or reading a book. Whenever I Bikepack I will bring a Bivy, but more often than not it is used as a ground cloth. If it's not raining I'm not in the bivy, just the sleeping bag. If it starts to rain you crawl into the bivy for a couple hours before starting to move again. Now if you are off on some uncharted ride, more expedition style I can understand it but something like the tour divide that has endless beta it's easy to calculate how far the next warm shelter is and just keep moving.

I guess living in a desert environment has change my perception over the years but that's just my .02.

It may have a lot to do with the region you bikepack in. A tarp and bivy are probably great if you live in the southwest, but up here in Canada, you need a tent for most of the summer to escape the bugs.

Given that a tarp and bivy setup weighs almost as much as an ultralight tent these days, I suspect the choice of shelter has a lot to do with conditions more than anything (rather than weight or pack size as a primary consideration).

[eec]

It may have a lot to do with the region you bikepack in. A tarp and bivy are probably great if you live in the southwest, but up here in Canada, you need a tent for most of the summer to escape the bugs.

Given that a tarp and bivy setup weighs almost as much as an ultralight tent these days, I suspect the choice of shelter has a lot to do with conditions more than anything (rather than weight or pack size as a primary consideration).

I would also throw in temps. I'm fine in a bivy if temps are 50 and below, but in warmer temps it gets unbearable.

[ascar_larkinyar]

Can you elaborate on the "lightweight net"?

https://www.rei.com/product/729007/mombasa-outback-travel-net-double?CAWELAID=120217890000831282&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15724358560&CATCI=aud-54816614184:pla-126976954840&cm_mmc=PLA_Google|404_9998|7290070015|none|8e79778e-62cb-4485-8074-785ba5c97210|aud-54816614184:pla-126976954840&lsft=cm_mmc:PLA_Google_LIA|404_9998|7290070015|none|8e79778e-62cb-4485-8074-785ba5c97210|aud-54816614184:pla-126976954840&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzMDTBRDDARIsABX4AWwd9puaLc3djFfevbrm7ExQodmLa5wW0ACGNze3yEsxvERuBtqB6ekaAp-FEALw_wcB


It's not this one, but close to it.  Weighs nothing and be setup in different ways.  I just tuck it in under my mat or bivy.  Did I mention I hate mosquitoes.

[wolfmansbro]

we are talking "ultra racing" here right?

[eec]

we are talking "ultra racing" here right?

Speaking for myself, I'm talking "racing". I wouldn't put my goal of 23 days into the "ultra racing" category, but I'll still be racing.

[Majcolo]

we are talking "ultra racing" here right?

There's a performance ROI on rest in a long race. It's not just muscle and connective tissue that need recovery - the brain and endocrine system need to recover too.

Everyone has their own capacity to operate on limited sleep just like they have their own VO2 max or anaerobic threshold. The people that can tolerate very little sleep will always have a huge advantage in the longer races, and people with a lower tolerance for missing sleep will be faster with "enough" high quality rest.

It's all down to individual risk tolerance and knowing your limits. Is it worth the incremental risk of a DNF to save a pound of gear weight if you're not racing for the win? Everyone has to answer that for themselves.

[Woodland]

This is one of the those endless debates that can really only be answered on an individual level by testing.

I used a bivy on my first CTR mostly because I was convinced by reading so many forums favoring bivys in the ultra racing community (I didn't have much experience). But I hated it. It poured rain a couple nights and I spent the whole night trying to keep the opening from filling up the bivy. I used the MSR AC bivy, but probably could have benefited from a bivy with a pole or adding a tarp to my kit. But like someone else has said a bivy and a tarp get pretty close to the weight of a tarptent.

Someone also mentioned it comes down to conditions and this could be accurate too. I used the same bivy on the AZT a couple years ago and loved it.

For me it comes down to security. I really don't like the feeling of having no 'shelter' with a bivy. Even if I am spending only 4 hours in my tent, having that down time out of the elements matters to me more than the weight saved from carrying a bivy.

I think you can still be an ultra-racer and carry a tent. It's just not as cool