The Spirit of the Tour Divide

[HughieP]

Something I haven't seen mentioned in any discussion of the "Spirit of the Tour Divide" is the use/over-use of stimulants to assist riders. I find it rather strange when nitpickers are bringing up subjects like drafting and other assistance rules "Advancing (forward) on the route by any means other than one's own pedal power is strictly prohibited. No drafting. Use of any type of air scoop or umbrella sail intended to harness wind power is also prohibited." yet looking the other way when bags of pills are packed in kits. I have to say I was a little taken aback when I watched Ride the Divide and saw Mike Dion's stash of blue pills. In a recent photo layout in Outside magazine with someone's kit laid out, a bag of (caffeine??) pills is clearly seen. Constant Red Bull? 5 hour energy drinks? Caffeine pills? Why don't I see those on anyone's gear list? They appear to be essentials nowadays. Is that the elephant in the room that no one likes to talk about?

Yeah, but I don't know. The blue pills are ibuprofen I think, not stimulants but still something I suspect you shouldn't have too many of. Simple non prescription stuff available to all and not giving anyone an unfair advantage nor putting anyone's life at risk. Caffeine probably fits in the same basket. I suspect and am happy to be proved wrong but a caffeine fuelled strategy isn't going to be sustainable for the full trip. You will go too far into deficit. Better let your body have its natural rhythms and pedal all you can. Maybe if you wanted to ride through the night when you hit the New Mexico heat?

I strongly considered packing caffeine pills I saw in the supermarket in Banff on Thursday evening after beers with the crew. All the usual stuff about people packing for their fears. Some people are scared of bears, I was scared of caffeine withdrawal. I am a serious coffee drinker at home and knew that I was not going to be near a coffee pot most mornings. This really worried me as I usually have the withdrawal headache pretty early in the day if my addiction isn't fed. As it was everything else is hurting anyway so I can't recall having any noticeable caffeine withdrawal symptoms. I don't drink red bull or pepsi or any of the energy drinks, just not my thing. If your body isn't used to those things, half way down the divide isn't the place to start experimenting. I drank lots of what the diners were calling coffee whenever I had the chance but that was the only caffeine ingested.
 

[ABfolder]

My typical drug use, in descending order of use or importance

Caffeine
•   Pepsi (many times in a bladder with ice)
•   Red Bull (1 or 2 per day--at resupply stops)
•   Pills (several times in a typical multi day)
Aleve (varies from 1-3 per day to none)
Orajel (as saddle sore develop usage goes up)

It’s questionable how much impact they have on my performance but the impact is real.

Any reason you go with Aleve (Naproxen) instead of Advil (Ibuprofen)?

I'm just curious as to what the survival rate would be -- as well as the TD race times -- without the use of a steady input of stimulants (or sleeping pills in some cases as mentioned in Jill Homer's book). In other words, what would the Tour Divide look like without those props? Saddle sore medication would be considered neutral -- although the beneficial impact is definitely there.

[THE LONG RANGER]

Some of the pills may have been probiotics as well - an attempt to thwart the displeasures of all those gas station burritos.

People also pack some salt tablets as well

Be very careful with pain killers, as benign as you think they are. I love me some Alleve at the right place, at the right time (nothing works better for altitude-related headaches for me!), but tolerance goes up quickly and the stuff is not good for your liver, I believe.

Re: Caffeine. I'm a huge caffeine consumer, but before these types of races, I take it easy, in an attempt to not go caffeine withdraw while on the course, as well as having the effect of coffee be a little more potent. I've never done caffeine pills, but this summer had some pretty good times using something like Hammer Nutrition Perpetuum, mixed with just instant coffee (if I wanted to). Kinda tasty and a lot less pricey than downing cup after cup along the way. Caffeine though is not something you want to overdo - I sorta like to think of it as borrowing future time - it just screws up your sleep/wake rythm too too much on something like the TD, to be a little to rambunctious about things.

I'm hoping people aren't taking straight up amphetamines on course. At that point, you gotta ask yourself what you're doing, and why.

Lots of people also pack things like antibiotics or even altitude sickness meds. I usually have some drops for my eyes, as my contacts just don't come out of my eyes in any intelligent schedule. Don't tell my optometrist!
 

[Done]

I have to say I was a little taken aback when I watched Ride the Divide and saw Mike Dion's stash of blue pills.

Little blue pills, eh? Gotta be Viagra. Definitely against the rules, as that certainly wouldn't qualify as self-support.

[Buttermilk]

Little blue pills, eh? Gotta be Viagra. Definitely against the rules, as that certainly wouldn't qualify as self-support.

nice one Toby.
I've been lurking in this topic a while and that post got me to chime in. Very useful discussion I might add.
carry on...back to my coffee...

[Marshal]

Any reason you go with Aleve (Naproxen) instead of Advil (Ibuprofen)?

I'm just curious as to what the survival rate would be -- as well as the TD race times -- without the use of a steady input of stimulants (or sleeping pills in some cases as mentioned in Jill Homer's book). In other words, what would the Tour Divide look like without those props? Saddle sore medication would be considered neutral -- although the beneficial impact is definitely there.

ABfolder,
Do we as racers try to adhere to some artificial standard or race in a manner that will achieve our best finish time?
In my mind it’s sort of silly to try to use someone else’s personal race style or form for one’s own race strategy. Why compromise your race effort?  Just to adhere to someone else’s personal concept of race etiquette?  

I would hope fellow racers follow the published rules.  But at the end of the day I am not overly concerned who uses what drugs, where they sleep, how they navigate, how many gears their bike has, how much or little gear they carry, if they do or do not eat meat and on and on.  With the exception of proven performance enhancing drugs like EPO or Testosterone these other things comprise one personal race style or form, IE their individual race strategy(s) and not rule adherence.  

With the above in mind:

Aleve vs Advil---Aleve lasts longer and ‘some’ research indicates it’s more effective for inflammation (muscle soreness) relief.

Other drugs I have carried and used at various times include Geronimo Cream, generic antibiotics, Hydrocortisone cream, tinidazole, metamucil fiber, Preparation H, docusate sodium, sun screen, chap stick and eye drops.  

Drugs I have not used in a multi-day include alcohol, marijuana, EPO, testosterone builders, amphetamines, asthma inhalers or antihistamines.

As to the impact level drugs have on the number of finishers or their finish times who can really say. But I suspect most racers use some form of ‘drugs’, for various reasons, including performance enhancement, during most multi day self-supported races.  
And they do have impact? Yes, to some degree
Do I worry to much about it? No, not really  

[ABfolder]

Aleve vs Advil---Aleve lasts longer and ‘some’ research indicates it’s more effective for inflammation (muscle soreness) relief.  

I asked only because Advil has less side effects for old fellas like us -- especially on the heart attack/stroke scoreboard. Aleve lasts longer and is shown to be slightly more effective but I'd stick with the Advil myself.

Now back to the "stimulants" discussion: If you were racing a horse cross-country against a bunch of other riders -- and you were all supposedly operating on a level playing field -- would it not be within reason to assume there would be rules against drugging an animal with stimulants when its energy levels were flagging?

The following example isn't a case of using stimulants -- and I'm not picking on anyone here -- but let's look at Mike Hall's run in 2013.

By day three Mike was essentially done. He was being hit with a severe pollen allergy and was ready to throw in the towel. Here's what he said in his blog: "I still had the Loretadine that I’d bought in Lincoln that I hadn’t taken.  I had taken a combination of decongestants that had no effect but at the time I was cautious about mixing too many meds in my state.  By the time I was in Helena I dug them out and took them with breakfast.  The result was phenomenal, the diagnosis unquestionable and the anxiety blown away completely.  My race was turned around in a matter of half an hour.  I was virtually reborn – in body and in mind and the power I had on tap seemed limitless.  The climb up to Lava mountain was a joy and when a storm rolled in across the ridge I was only too happy to race it through the singletrack before it could dump its contents into the soft sandy technical trail.  I was firmly back in the race, the chase was on now to find Craig and I felt like I had horsepower to spare."

Loratadine is the antihistamine sold under the brand name Claritin. Half an hour and he's running on Premium Unleaded again. I find no fault with Mike using that stuff -- he had no choice in order to function. But what if the rest of the field including Stappler were being affected as well but to a minor degree that they coughed/brushed off? They may have been running on Regular Unleaded with no antihistamines to upgrade the fuel. Again, this is only an example and I'm not pointing the finger at anyone. It merely shows the potential power of any sort of drug use -- even over-the-counter items. From near dead to racing thoroughbred in 30 minutes flat. Pretty impressive improvement!

[HughieP]

We aren't feeding the totally legal commercially available in every gas station stimulants to horses. Some of the riders take them, others don't. I am more than happy for others to indulge when they think they feel the need but they will never be a regular part of my regimen. It's like taking more out of the tank than is there. Pay back happens. Not just the borrowing from the future but you also have to drink more fluids which means carrying more water.

I am an early morning person and felt much better out there climbing into my bivy when the sun went down and grabbing as much sleep as I could. I know that others pulled huge efforts with late into the night rides possibly with the assistance of caffeine but I was up bright and early pushing out more kilometres in the morning sunlight while they slept. Neither approach is right or wrong and I don't think the caffeine fiends are grabbing any huge advantage.

I just had a quick look at what USADA has to say about caffeine and note that caffeine is part of the monitoring program and as such is specifically not banned.

[bmike-vt]

If it's available over the counter, or a rider has a script, why does it matter? Part of knowing your body is knowing what to do when things go south. If someone gets hurt or is hurting - they should be able to forage for the goods / services / meds along the way to keep riding. Unless the team motobike is riding up alongside with IV bags I can't see how normal, over the counter stuff would cause an issue.

Claritin is hardly a performance enhancer. But it can make a fundamental thing thar we all need to to easier - breathing. Someone suffering from asthma or allergies or altitude sickness can be in a real bad spot.

Mike Hall could drop me before we got out of the Y parking lot, even if I was on a motorcycle. The fact that he sorted out what he needed, and rebounded should likely be attributed to him training and riding in all sort of shit conditions - weather, health, pain, etc. and knowing what to do to keep going.

Now, of his claritan was juiced we can talk about calling in WADA and having mandatory piss tests atop every mountain pass....  But I doubt it.

[ABfolder]

Claritin is hardly a performance enhancer.

I think you need to read Mike's own words again. To make it easier to understand, substitute the phrase "performance enhancing drug" where he writes "Loretadine". Again his words: "I was virtually reborn...the power I had on tap seemed limitless." That appears to be more than a mere breathing boost.

My point is this and it's in line with Marshal's thoughts: You really should be racing for yourself following the published rules. I doubt that Marshal (in his wildest dreams) is delusional enough to think he's ever going to win the TD. He'd have to roll over at least a dozen riders with major mechanicals, health problems or accidents to beat them to Antelope Wells. Could he shave off a couple of days on his own time? Certainly -- that's what Forest Baker did on his second go at the route. And to me, that's the Spirit of the Tour Divide. You should be riding against yourself, which is what Stamstad did originally. In my view, though, the cleaner/purer you do it, the better. Hauling along a full bag of pills -- whether Viagra or caffeine -- seems to be stretching the concept somewhat. Claritin for allergies and other OTC drugs should be fine but even they might give an edge to someone if others in the field are not aware of their benefits.

[richpips]

I think you need to read Mike's own words again. To make it easier to understand, substitute the phrase "performance enhancing drug" where he writes "Loretadine". Again his words: "I was virtually reborn...the power I had on tap seemed limitless." That appears to be more than a mere breathing boost.

Have you seen the video he shot before he took his performance enhancing drug?

If you have, shame on you.

http://youtu.be/4X36Orf8cEs

 

[mountainjah]

Hauling along a full bag of pills -- whether Viagra or caffeine -- seems to be stretching the concept somewhat. Claritin for allergies and other OTC drugs should be fine but even they might give an edge to someone if others in the field are not aware of their benefits.

Sounds like style preference to me. And what about the herb? Can I only utilize it on CT? Not sure I'd call it "performance enhancing" but it addresses many of the OTC maladies mentioned previously.  

After stepping away for a trip, it's good to see the dialogue continuing. (Albeit, a pretty typical BP.net thread- good conversation-great counter points- fuck you Toby- good conversation- great counter points- fuck you Toby....and around we go!)

Let's not lose sight of this thread's original spirit and drift away from what's been a valuable conversation. We've mentioned starting a "greatest relegations of all time" thread, maybe a drug thread too?

[bmike-vt]

Claritin for allergies and other OTC drugs should be fine but even they might give an edge to someone if others in the field are not aware of their benefits.

Should we limit the budget and frame materials and choice of gear too? Seriously... I can't compete with someone who can drop $6k or $8k+ on a carbon or ti featherweight bike and wheels and another $3k on the lightest weight gear... + the time off to ride.

Is a dyno light OK, because I can ride all night without worrying about batteries? Or does everyone need to be using the same 150 lumen headlamp strapped to the bars and a 2) AA flashlight strapped to the helmet?

Can I ride in wool and not tell others how it works pretty well when cold and wet?

How do you handle folks who live at sea level and folks who live at altitude?

Can I bring a first aid kit, assuming I know how to use it? Is that an advantage if I get hurt? What about knowing basic bike maintenance? It is clearly an advantage if someone doesn't understand basic bike maintenance and I do...

If someone doesn't know how to take care of their body - including pain management, asthma, allergies, etc. etc. - then thats for them to figure out - just like a rookie won't likely know where the best water or sleep stops are, much less the course.


Regarding antihistamines, this is from Livestrong (ha! a drug reference on live strong!: http://www.livestrong.com/article/324137-antihistamines-exercise/

(other links out there)

Expert Insight
A report in the March 1993 of the journal "Sports Medicine" indicated that athletes suffering from seasonal allergies -- such as rhinitis, which may impair breathing during exercise -- have a choice of antihistamine medications to reduce symptoms and improve athletic performance. Medications that cause drowsiness and sedation are less desirable for athletes, because they may slow a person down. Newer types of antihistamine do not have sedating effects. The study stated that there was no apparent effect on exercise performance when antihistamines were taken by an athlete without symptoms relating to histamine. Therefore, antihistamines cannot be considered performance-enhancing.

Warning
Many antihistamines cause significant drowsiness, so as an athlete, consider whether you will be safe to drive to and from a race if you plan to take antihistamines beforehand...

I agree, ride it for yourself. This whole thread is moot then. Declare an ITT, line up, ride as hard / fast as you can following the published rules. Submit your GPX track and SPOT tracking. All other riders be damned - do it yourself, follow the rules.

[Done]

That appears to be more than a mere breathing boost.

While I have no inside knowledge on Mike's actual medical condition, it sounds like he was suffering from some form of hyper-active airway disorder. As an asthmatic, I can relate to his experience. If you can't breathe, you can't move. If you want to understand what it feels like, try going for a ride while breathing through a drinking straw. Yes, you can still probably ride--barely. Remove the straw, and you'll feel like superman.

A lot of research and work has been done by major sports to determine what constitutes a performance-enhancing drug, and under what conditions various drugs are deemed acceptable. Rather than re-invent the wheel, maybe it is easier to go with the flow and follow the well-worn protocols that have been established by the Olympics, etc. Don't shoot EPO or steroids, and don't pop amphetamines. If you need something to control asthma, diabetes, etc., whether it's an over-the-counter antihistamine, prescribed cortisone, or insulin, then take it. Drink Red Bull if that's your thing, stick with water if it's not.

[ABfolder]

Have you seen the video he shot before he took his performance enhancing drug?

If you have, shame on you.

http://youtu.be/4X36Orf8cEs

 

In fact I have seen it which is why I brought the subject up. It's quite obvious that Mike was on his last legs and absolutely needed that Claritin. What you don't seem to be picking up is the fact that other riders from outside the Wild West region might be afflicted with the same pollen/dust allergy and not know it. They might be penalized with a 20% hit on their performance due to that unknown, never-before-encountered allergy and chalk the effect up to lack of sleep or exhaustion on the Tour. I lived in Australia for 5 years and discovered exactly what Toby described myself as a first-class, never-before asthmatic -- it was like sucking air through a straw. In the parts of North America that I've traipsed through, I've never had the same problem. So if you're doing the reverse, and coming from outside the riding region from the four corners of the earth, you could quickly develop an allergy to something and not know it, especially if it doesn't hit you as hard as it hit Mike. Regardless of what anyone says, in that case Claritin is indeed a performance-enhancing drug. You need it to continue at your normal pace. I don't have any problem with anyone using it -- but realize that a portion of the field with slight allergic reactions may be handicapped because they are not aware of its benefits. Locals living in the region -- or others who have already developed allergies or asthma -- know enough to self-medicate.

The comments about bike weight/material etc are just as relevant. That's another area where the playing field may not be as level as it first appears. Ride the TD for yourself under the published rules but even then know that it isn't the same as doing it back in 2004 due to group dynamics, access to race activity, blue dot junkie "trail magic" etc. The larger the Tour Divide becomes the more it morphs into something it never was -- and was never meant to be. (Or so Mike Curiak thinks...)

[Eszter]

But clearly Mike has the experience to recognize an issue and treat it. If others were to travel/race/gather the experiences like he has, they'd be able to recognize symptoms of an allergy issue.

Someone who's had a achilles issue in the past knows how to treat it better than someone who hasn't, and I'm pretty sure 90% of people out on the Divide have an Achilles flare-up at some point. Should we outlaw ace bandages because some people don't have the first-aid knowledge to use them properly?

Bringing pills adds weight to a kit. Bring too many, and they'll take up a lot of space. Bringing a full first aid kit takes up space and weight. Maybe having them are actually a hinderance, especially if you don't have to use them.

We build experience and decide what we need and don't need. If you don't have the experience to make the right decisions on how to treat issues that come up, that's no one's fault but yours.

[ABfolder]

But clearly Mike has the experience to recognize an issue and treat it.

He had one prior episode with an allergy issue. That was it -- but again it was severe enough to draw his attention to it. When I was in Australia it took me a fair bit of time until I realized what was affecting me -- and only because of its growing severity. You could be carrying a race handicap due to a regional allergy issue and not even know it. Such is life.

[ScottM]

I remember my allergist saying taking Claritin is like taking a non-alcoholic beer to get drunk.

It's probably the least potent of anti-histamines.  It might be good for placebo effect, though!

[ABfolder]

I remember my allergist saying taking Claritin is like taking a non-alcoholic beer to get drunk.

It's probably the least potent of anti-histamines.  It might be good for placebo effect, though!

I think it depends on the person -- which is why there's a variety of side effects, some completely the opposite of others. For Mike it obviously worked to its full power because the day before he was having a hard time pushing his bike uphill, let alone riding it. After taking the stuff and waiting a half hour for it to kick in, bingo, race on!

[Done]

For Mike it obviously worked to its full power because the day before he was having a hard time pushing his bike uphill, let alone riding it. After taking the stuff and waiting a half hour for it to kick in, bingo, race on!

Yes, he got his lungs back. That's a good thing--and absolutely fair.