Tour Divide 2009

[richNYC]

Well said 700se... Couldn't have made a better case myself.

[walkre73]

I think you miss the self supported factor of this event . If you need to be rescued in anyway you are definitely not going to finish on your own power . The injury or sickness or major failure of bike will in most cases take you out of the race . I do not see your point of circumstance other than a federal bailout .

[Marshal]

Why does a temporary advancement matter though? Once again, if the rider restarts at the same point here is no advantage to be gained.

Ok, I will take a crack at answering your question….

Say you decide to ‘game’ the race by ‘arranging’ a friend, spouse etc to pull you off the route, run you into major town ( side, front, back).  Once there you get your bike rebuilt while getting a massage, fresh dry gear, all your favorite drink & food etc etc.  Hop back in the car and sleep while you are driven back to the exact same spot where you ‘left’ the trail.

Ok hopefully all can see how this would be a “advantage”

Now let’s see how the simple “rule” is meant to prevent temptation from the weak among us:
1: Forward: you can not move ‘forward’ on the route by vehicle so—no advantage, no temptation

2: Back: if you go ‘back’ in a vehicle you now have to re-ride—you just lost your ill gotten advantage

3: Side: if you go to the “side” you most likely did so at a spot where other racers could also conveniently exit-re-enter the route (note the rule about not going to your house if its on/side of the route)

In short to exit the route for any reason involves a ‘penalty’ not an advantage. Rather than come up with 100 to the nth degree number of ‘rules to cover all the possible scenarios for ‘off route’ we have a basic one, based more on your honor than a book of rules.

In all seriousness, if any out there thinks they can come up with a ‘better’ more ‘fair’ more ‘agreed on’ {off route rule} post it up for review and discussion

And finally think about this—all who say they are ‘racing’ the TD or GD have consented to abide by the published rules, even if you do not agree 100% with each & every one of them!!

edit:
Oh—and btw, this discussion comes up every year, I think each and every one of us ‘self-supported’ nuts had to think about and ponder the rules a bit before we could really appreciate and understand all their implications.  If you are new to this type of ‘race’ you might re-read some of the prior years discussions/arguments/name calling/peace making threads, for most of us it just takes awhile to fully get your head wrapped around the full concept

[SandSurfer]

You're talking about basically dishonest people.  When Matt says "Riding the route in it's entirety is the spirit of the event...but being tired/ill, getting a ride back to a hotel with a shower and a bed, and then getting a ride back to where you left of is not," actually as long as the hotel isn't on the route, this is ok.  Someone who's point is to do the route honestly gains no advantage by hitching back to a town and then hitching back to the spot they were picked up than someone who hitches to a town off route and then back.

The Pandora's Box is already open by creating the situation where you think, "hmm, my bike needs a major repair.  I better make sure the shop I go to isn't on the route, so that I can legally come back to the spot I leave the route."  Again, also what constitutes "rejoining the route"?  The route only goes through the outskirts of Helena and Butte, so is anywhere in those towns considered "on the route"?  I'm 10 miles short of Butte with a major repair needed.  I can legally get a ride backwards to Helena, then reride the route.  I can legally get a ride to Bozeman, then back to where I started.  I can't get a ride into Butte and then go back to where I started.   This rule is anything but simple.

You want a simple rule: Any ride given by a vehicle must be given by a true stranger and be serendipitous.  If you get a ride from a spot on the route, you may go back to that spot.  If you walked backward on the route, too bad.  You must restart the route precisely where you left.

So this rule prevents the type of manipulation I described above and Matt's description of someone creeping ahead of where they left off.  Also, the rule now givees those who try to "game the race" as you say an easy way to do so.  Those people will always be around.  The rule as I've written it removes that.

I haven't done one of these events (I live on the other side of the country), but I've been following this type of riding/racing since the beginning.  I intend to pre-ride a route that will likely host such an event in the future.  I think healthy debate on the what this type of event means is good.  Obviously neither of us is going to change the other's mind, which is fine.

[eMcK]

Keeping an open mind and debating these things are a good thing. No one, including me is bringing these topics up to be critical of Matt or anyone else involved in planning this race.

SandSurfer brings up the points I was trying to make. The rule as it stands does not serve to eliminate the gray area of getting a ride, in fact I'd argue it makes it worse.

I can think of a number of ways to skirt the letter of this rule as it stands. Making the rule that the route is reentered where it was left and no friends/family pickups would simplify the rule.

Cheaters are always going to cheat (and haters are always gonna hate). Making the rules as simple as possible for those who strive to follow them would seem to make more sense than complicating things in an attempted to referee an un-officiated event.

If it is any help to know where I'm coming from, I've put on a self-supported race with similar rules for the last 4 years.

Perhaps this needs its own thread?

[SandSurfer]

To change the topic back to the race itself, Jay and Tracey have finally caught Kurt and Chris.  They are all in Steamboat.  The race for second is getting exciting.  I'm having too much fun following this event.

[Kevin Montgomery]

Please note that this post has nothing to do with the official Tour Divide opinion on the matter of the rules.

trail717 basically has it right.  I'm just going to say that a big consideration is not being able to go forward is the price you pay for comfort.  Take Cricket for example: she felt like she needed to spend the night in a hotel but was not near a hotel.  This is a reality of the route and what makes the race so challenging.  If people can easily get rides to and from places, it takes an element of the challenge away from the race: knowing that you have to re-ride a section will really make you reconsider getting a ride back to town to catch some ZZZs.

Additionally, I do not believe it is reasonable to ban all auto-transport.  For example, when Jamie busted his tire, it was not easy for him to advance back to Lima.  I don't recall if he received a ride or not, but that is a good example of how a ride would be helpful.  There are places on the route that are legitimately remote.  There is no reason to DQ someone because they, say, broke their frame and didn't want to walk 75+ miles back to town.  That said, whatever "emergency" justified moving off or backwards along the route should have been corrected by the time they are ready to rejoin the route.  Therefore, there is no good mechanical or health reason they cannot pedal that distance again.

In light of the point above, an argument could be made that all auto-transport back towards the route should be banned (again, you went to town to solve and issue so you can pedal back to the route).  However, I believe that it might be too difficult to manage that rule (loophole: say Town A is 50 miles from the route and Town B is 20 miles from the route but further south.  A racer goes to Town A to discover they do not have what they need.  Would going to Town B be a violation?).

All the said, I think the rule needs to be more specific about what happens when you are transported back "near" the route.  Cricket's example is a case of that... she was transported back to Butte but likely not back to "the route."  Clearly the penumbras of the rule indicate that being transported back to Butte would be sufficient as "back to the route" but, ultimately, it was not explicit.

[DaNM]

I went out and harassed the tourists again today.

[hungry gnome]

I am on the edge of my seat.  The race has finally begun.  Kurt has pulled away and apears to be chasing Matt.      

[700see.]

I am on the edge of my seat.  The race has finally begun.  Kurt has pulled away and apears to be chasing Matt.

This is a great year and a great field! One problem can change everything too!

[DaveH]

I'm not so sure about Kurt leaving Chris behind.  15+ hour stop and I know Plesko hates to be alone... 

Indeed this race is about to get interesting.  When Kurt was down here for Camp Lynda in January I was super impressed with his laid back, easy going manner, and ability to hammer for hours.  Kurt and Chris made strange riding partners - purely from the geared vs. SS aspect.  Chris would likely have been faster on the hills while Kurt would have been faster most everywhere else.  To stay together *seems* like it would have slowed them both down.  Riding solo they can seek their own flow.

Let'r rip boys!

[DaNM]

 Let`er rip indeed. Got some good footage of the of spirited tandem as well.
 I will re-edit the M. Lee film and get Jay and Tracey on here  in a few days when things play out.
  I`m looking at Boreas pass as I type. Big old thunderheads boiling up. From my 20 mile view there`s no electricity or water coming from the sky as of 2;30 pm. Park County`s weather looks unsettled. I just checked the SPOTS, Chris and the pair are high on the pass, I check my binoculars and I think they are dry, but It keep getting darker as i type.
 Jay said they hit 55mph on dirt
 
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZySGwHaVJX8&feature=channel_page

[MrsPivvay]

I'm not so sure about Kurt leaving Chris behind.  15+ hour stop and I know Plesko hates to be alone... 

Yeah, Chris stopped last night in Kremmling while Kurt decided to push on toward Breck.  Chris called me last night to see if I wanted to drive the two hours up to visit him in Kremmling and get to have breakfast together, so of course I drove up to see him.  He said that he and Kurt were super bummed to part ways, but Chris was really tired and knew his body needed some real food and a decent night's sleep, while Kurt is trying to make a deadline in Salida.  By the time Chris left lunch in Breck this afternoon, he was looking 100% more refreshed and ready to tackle the rest of the course.  We'll see if they end up hooking back up in Salida tonight or not... it'll all depend how quickly Kurt can bust out the pass over to Salida...

[hungry gnome]

I'm not so sure about Kurt leaving Chris behind.  15+ hour stop and I know Plesko hates to be alone... 

It doesn't look like he will be riding alone for long!  He is inching ever closer to Matt.  Ohhh the drama!

When they came down for the AZT it was clear that they were good friends.  It is not that I thought that they would ride better solo, but rather that they needed to kick up the pace.     

[Marshal]

6:30 pm Wed, I see KR making a big push to catch ML, go guys go..........

[richNYC]

This so much fun to follow;) Rooting for Joe to get inside top 5...

DaNM, thanks for sharing the Youtube clip. Matthew's is keeping his calm coolness, as always;)

[DaveH]

Awesome commentary on the ACA pics of the event.  This one http://www.adventurecycling.org/gdrgallery2009/gallery15.cfm is LOL good:

At this point, these guys were flying. Matthew Lee — who admitted the night before the race that the demands of a new child and organizing the race had taken their toll and that he did not expect to ride particularly well — would continue to fly, pulling away from the pack on day two. Chris Plesko, riding as light as anyone in the race (he’s carrying only the bedroll on his handlebars, a seat bag, frame bags, a few mystery items in his three jersey pockets, and whatever he’s stowing in his cheeks), also maintained a record-pace on his, uh, rigid singlespeed. It’s not clear how this is possible. It also appears that he is carrying his camera inside his stomach, which might help explain why he and Matthew are the only two racers not wearing backpacks.

[DaveC]

Awesome commentary on the ACA pics of the event.  This one http://www.adventurecycling.org/gdrgallery2009/gallery15.cfm is LOL good:

WTF?!

I'm BBQing at a AC staff members house tomorrow, will be sure to give her shit for that.

[walkre73]

I saw there gear up close and personal and they are only carrying air .

[Marshal]

wonder if Kurt turned his Spot off, you think??