Tour Divide 2010

[northofbeyond]

Wow, this is exciting. Look how many dots there are heading into Wyoming. Excellent race!

[fneilsimms]

The race has become big enough in terms of participation that maybe in the future there should be consideration of setting up an impartial referee or panel of refs (not participating in the race) to weigh in on any DQ decisions, so an organizer/racer like Matthew is not put in the awkward position of having to make a ruling. The ref could make a quick ruling and get word to the affected racer so he or she would know where they stand right away...

[afinemess]

For the record ... I don't think I know better than Matthew Lee, or any of you, what the rules "should" be for your race - and I haven't called for the rules to be bent for the benefit of anyone in this year's race. You could have a rule that a name is drawn out of a hat each day and that person is DQed. Anyone who raced would obviously have agreed to it, so it would be completely "fair to everyone." I'm not arguing with that.

I just asked if someone could give me an explanation for why the rule about traveling forward by motor vehicle on the course exists and explained why I didn't understand it. I'm still waiting for a serious response to that.

If I had looked on this board and seen people saying that Lobeck should be DQed because he accepted a ride in a car and that was against the rules because this is a self-supported BIKE race, that would have made sense to me and I would never have posted here. But when I read that accepting the ride to go and get his bike fixed was fine, but that he should be DQed because of the route the car took, that just sounds asinine. And while I don't think the rules should be made for the benefit of people, like me, who follow the race on the Internet, I don't see how it would hurt to explain the reasons for them to us. If Matthew Lee has a good reason for this rule, that's great. I'd like to know what it is.

[cbillman]

  Aidan Harding is having a great ride! He's up near the front of the race on his singlespeed. The rest of the SS riders look to be pretty close together.
   Go, go, go!
   bruce.b

Unfortunately, single-speeder Pete Faeth has called it quits in Polaris. Read about the bike cop's quest from his local paper. Neat story. Hope he's not too down.

Looks like the remaining three SSers are Harding (who is booking it), Billman (who better call in soon, maybe from Lima hopefully) and the always upbeat Mountain Turtle.

[bruce.b]

   I'm sorry to hear about Pete. I always looked for him when I checked the leaderboard.
   bruce.b

[ksb]

Someone referred to the "basin" that ML is crossing. Can some of the past riders describe the terrain for some of the current riders. I was looking thru the photos on the TD site and was wondering ML is in the flat, rollers in WY while others are still slogging thru more rugged terrain.

[northofbeyond]

I just asked if someone could give me an explanation for why the rule about traveling forward by motor vehicle on the course exists and explained why I didn't understand it. I'm still waiting for a serious response to that.

What do you mean an explanation -- it's a rule. The riders are supposed to be familiar with the rules if they want to be considered for having a time assigned to their completion. We could pick apart every rule, but that's not the point. The rules are there to even out the playing field.

Erik broke down close to a town, and was able to hitch a ride and arrange to have parts sent quickly and grab a ride back to his bike to get back on the trail relatively soon. But what about someone who has a breakdown farther from a town, can't find anyone to drive them anywhere, has to walk to find help, maybe walk back to their bike, etc. Should the serendipity of Eric being close to a town and taking advantage of car travel give him an edge over someone without all this trail magic? It makes sense to me that the intent of the rule is to keep it fair.

It sucks to have mechanical problems, but that's part of the whole.

[afinemess]

I'm sorry. I thought this was a board for discussing the TD. If the rules need no explanation, or if the reasons are none of my business, please forgive me for having asked.

[juliewnc]

Someone referred to the "basin" that ML is crossing. Can some of the past riders describe the terrain for some of the current riders. I was looking thru the photos on the TD site and was wondering ML is in the flat, rollers in WY while others are still slogging thru more rugged terrain.

Well, flat is a relative term. After crossing the Big Sandy you have to climb a thousand feet or so up to the Divide. It is certainly not as tough as the Montana mountains, but it sure isn't easy either. It's hot and the road is sandier, which can present a whole new host of challenges. And unless you're crossing a stream or river (which isn't often) there are next to no trees between Pinedale and Rawlins. Hills are shorter, but they are there and this section takes its toll in different ways. It's an amazing stretch though and well worth seeing.

Julie

[SimonK]

Someone referred to the "basin" that ML is crossing. Can some of the past riders describe the terrain for some of the current riders. I was looking thru the photos on the TD site and was wondering ML is in the flat, rollers in WY while others are still slogging thru more rugged terrain.

The heat and isolation aside, the Basin is pretty straight forward. The hills are pretty minor and the track surface isn't difficult (aside from the odd corrugation, perhaps). I think there might even be a prevailing wind that is of help. Looks like Matt is timing it well for a night ride through the Basin, so I suspect it'll be one of the easiest parts of the whole race for him.

Baring some sort of disaster, I'd say Matt is looking good for the win.

As for the rules debate - you have to ask yourself if their was any unfair advantage gained. Nope. Are any of the racers offended by the use of a car in that situation? Nope.
Even the UCI aren't slaves to the rules (remember Lance shortcutting the course through the corn field - that was a breach of the rules, but they quite rightly let it slide).

[looper]

How do you naysayers know that Erik did not take an alternative route to get to Lima as the rule indicate to be legal?  were you in the car?  have you spoken to Erik?

Besides that the rule does not refer to what the rider is to do if there is no alternative route you may cross the route in order to get to the town when necessary when there is no alternative this becomes necessary.  Based on the description of what the were riding before his breakdown I doubt there was a possibility of going backward because what they had just come over would not be drivable.  

The official people involved Mathew and the race coverage seem to be still covering Erik so I think that indicates that mathew felt that his solution to his problem was reasonable and not putting him at an advantage, the point of the rule.

for those of you who feel extra strong about following rules and not open to the fact that there is always room for a different interpretation please stop watching Erik's Dot.  pretend he does not exist. the rest can keep watching and enjoying his effort.  

[jose]

Man, this rules discussion sure is a buzz kill. Maybe you guys should start a new "To DQ or Not to DQ Erik" thread, and go nuts in there.

I realize that its not frivolous discussion (in as much as an internet forum thread on a bunch of mtb yahoos racing across the Rockies isn't frivolous). The tension between "letter of the law" vs "spirit of the law" is important in driving the evolution of the rules, and ultimately, maintaining the integrity of the competition.

But for those just simply trying to follow the action and enjoy TD 2010, its making this thread a yawner.

[Von Petrol]

Great Basin

[Von Petrol]

Bruce G. 2009 in the Great Basin

[bruce.b]

>>Man, this rules discussion sure is a buzz kill.<<

   You're right. I apologize for for multiple posts on the subject and won't post about it again.

    So, about the Great Basin. What's the weather like and how will it impact the racers? Headwinds?
    How about Matt possibly lining up to do a night crossing? Is that about the heat and sun only? For anyone who's ridden it how about a brief (or longer) report on what it's like?

    bruce.b

[NorCalFan]

A couple more photos of the starting line in Banff:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/akallus/sets/72157624168506709/

Congrats to everyone who's ridden any part of this race.

[cbillman]

Thanks for the additional images.

This one shows my brother's brief lead over Matt Lee. 

[NorCalFan]

Matthew does look scared
I hope the other Mr. Billman is feeling good out there!

[ksb]

Even the UCI aren't slaves to the rules (remember Lance shortcutting the course through the corn field - that was a breach of the rules, but they quite rightly let it slide).
[/quote]

Actually the UCI/TDF rules state that a racer cannot cut the course AND gain advantage. Lance, by some stroke of luck, managed to rejoin the race/the field with the same riders that he was with before his detour (arguably slightly further back) and therefore (and fortunately for all involved) was not in disregard of the rules.

[Manabezho]

Hi Guys:  I'm new to the forum but have been closely following this years race & especially following the progress of Kent Peterson the Mountain Turtle.  What great call-ins & what a terrific attitude.  I've know Kent since childhood so I happen to know he's an old dude like me, 51 years good.  I wonder if any other 50+ riders have completed the Tour Divide race before.  Does anyone know?  Thanks,  David