Tour Divide 2010

[the_mc5]

Jeff: see reply #468 re: trackleaders symbology - http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,836.msg10756.html#msg10756

[JeffOYB]

It may complicate things, but like the Tandem class, there might be a pairs class, so that riders can choose the "buddy system" for this race. I don't think I will be inclined to be out there absolutely alone. It exceeds my risk tolerance. And, I expect the solos will still hold the course record. I think you can still obey all existing rules and still decide to stick together with someone or a group.

To me it looks like racers do this very often as it is. Maybe it could be a Class, too, though. Neat idea. Now, I'd think that plans/paces could change on a route like this, would they be obliged to stay together? As it is, it looks like riders sometimes change partners or groups.

I'm no rule expert but I also wonder about drafting. Maybe a Buddy Class could allow it? Offhand, I think I'd like the idea of riding with folks but wouldn't want to have to have a "keep away from me" mindset. In the headwinds across the basins, whew, taking turns only makes sense. I've done TT's but have never ridden among a sizeable group without drafting, so I don't know what being savvy about such a rule would be like. If it's wet, muddy or dusty maybe everyone tends to keep a bit of distance, who knows.

Buddies could also perhaps share equipment for lighter loads. ? I recall Jeff of Carousel saying that was a big part of his own interest in UL touring: the social aspect that came with sharing stuff to improve the experience of both.

Of course, buddying would have its own challenge! One could get tired of their twin...

[JeffOYB]

I'm wondering what helps overall average speed the most in a long nonstop enduro event...

I'm thinking that "keeping moving" might be the biggest factor. Like, in Matthew's recent video interview at the TD homepage he's in Salida, CO, and mentions that his last shower was in Montana. I'm guessing that slower riders are showering more often, for instance. Laugh if you like but it adds up, I bet!

If someone keeps all stops to a minimum -- gets food without fuss or dawdle -- cold food/coffee instead of stove on trail -- sleeps minimally and packs/unpacks with seamless flow (SEALs train to go from sleeping in tent to on trail again in, like, a minute) -- maintains bike in an efficient way (quick tube changes, or use a way that prevents flats) -- doesn't stop to take pics or to use the phone (? ...ride'n'chat) -- they'd certainly save hours a day. That adds up fast!

I've heard this from other enduro types and I've had century rides work out this way (a slow guy who kept rolling always beats my fast pal and I cause we stop for lunch and breaks). Verlen Kruger is a canoeist who promoted long nonstop paddling and his rule was "keep it moving."

[BobM]

To me it looks like racers do this very often as it is. Maybe it could be a Class, too, though. Neat idea. Now, I'd think that plans/paces could change on a route like this, would they be obliged to stay together? As it is, it looks like riders sometimes change partners or groups.

I'm no rule expert but I also wonder about drafting. Maybe a Buddy Class could allow it? Offhand, I think I'd like the idea of riding with folks but wouldn't want to have to have a "keep away from me" mindset. In the headwinds across the basins, whew, taking turns only makes sense. I've done TT's but have never ridden among a sizeable group without drafting, so I don't know what being savvy about such a rule would be like. If it's wet, muddy or dusty maybe everyone tends to keep a bit of distance, who knows.

Buddies could also perhaps share equipment for lighter loads. ? I recall Jeff of Carousel saying that was a big part of his own interest in UL touring: the social aspect that came with sharing stuff to improve the experience of both.

Of course, buddying would have its own challenge! One could get tired of their twin...

Don't forget that the route is public and the maps/cues are commercially available, so literally anyone can race the route any way they like or even organize their own race.  Personally I would love to see what the time would be for a fully-supported racer, just as a comparison to self-supported racing.

Bob

[krefs]

A friend of mine just sent me a couple links about a fire in northern NM that has resulted in the closure of at least two forest roads that are part of the GDR.  The South Fork fire is burning on what looks to be Polvadera Mesa on the north side of the Jemez Mountains.  This is just south of Abiquiu.  FR 27 south of the Abiquiu Land Trust (edge of the reservation) is closed, as is FR 144 between FR 27 and FR 31.  The course follows FR 27 south to FR 144 and turns west onto FR 144.  From what I can tell, at least 30 miles of the GDR are officially closed here.  The fire is 45% contained as of last night, but the fire crews are not really actually battling the flames, instead opting to set up a broad perimeter around the fire.  So it's unclear what the situation might be like in a day and a half when Matthew arrives in Abiquiu.

A few links for more information:

http://nmfireinfo.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/sf-national-forest-fire-information-tecolote-and-south-fork-fires/#more-1140

http://www.inciweb.org/incident/1985/

[BobM]

Last I checked the maps Blaine was 70 miles behind Matthew.  I wonder if Mr. Lee feels the pressure; that's only a half day at their pace so one mechanical could allow a change of leaders.

[BobM]

About Kurt's info about the current fire conditions...
Remember a couple years ago when the road crew near Togwatee required cyclists to ride in a vehicle for a dozen miles through the construction zone.  It created a small drama about perseverance, integrity, and all the other things this race brings to the surface.  IIRC, the rules clarification that resulted from the confusion is that racers are permitted to violate the "must ride every mile" rule if doing so would be a violation of the law, i.e. if the highway patrol has set up a roadblock and tells you to either detour or ride in a vehicle, then you ought to do as the highway patrol has directed and you won't be relegated for it.
Presumably the same logic applies to roads closed by a fire crew, right?
AmyL

PS - and please no supported-racer category.  Although this race is by, for, and about racers, it also has the side effect of publicizing the good work that ACA does for bicyclists of all sorts, including the use of bicycles as an alternative to fossil-fuel-consuming modes of transport.  A race that encourages yet more vehicular use would conflict with the whole ethic of bicycles and bicycle travel.  My two cents are worth nothing on this topic, but I had to get it off my chest.

Hi Amy,

From the FAQs, in response to a question from Erik L about fire closures:

"When faced with route closure a conscientious Divide racer tries to ride the maximum amount of official GDMBR possible (within reason), detouring at the last possible safe opportunity, rejoining at the earliest safe opportunity."

Also, my comment "Personally I would love to see what the time would be for a fully-supported racer, just as a comparison to self-supported racing." did not refer to this or any race, it was merely wondering out loud about how much of a "disadvantage" the self-support aspect is.  Personally, I don't think a fully supported racer would be able to cut that much off the record given the average mileage posted by the winners over the years.

Bob

[robinb]

Also, my comment "Personally I would love to see what the time would be for a fully-supported racer, just as a comparison to self-supported racing." did not refer to this or any race, it was merely wondering out loud about how much of a "disadvantage" the self-support aspect is.  Personally, I don't think a fully supported racer would be able to cut that much off the record given the average mileage posted by the winners over the years.

Being supported would be day and night difference for time. my guess would be sub 15 days.  Just not having a fully loaded bike of ~40lbs (incl food and water) allows one to climb 25-50% faster - and there is alot of climbing on the route.  add being able to have a proper diet, good water, good sleep, massage, no navigation issues, no need to go off route for re-supplies, no mechanicals and a fully tuned bike at all times - you would have a RAAM like pace of 18-22hrs of ride time a day.

But that's the beauty of the self-supported - all that other stuff BESIDES the riding that you have to deal with.

[Done]

But that's the beauty of the self-supported - all that other stuff BESIDES the riding that you have to deal with.

I'll be doing my first self-supported MTB race this summer, and the self-supported ethos is what attracted me. The logistics, planning, etc. make for more than just a test of physical stamina and strength. So, I couldn't agree with you more. Nothing wrong with supported events, but self-supported activities are simply more of an adventure!

[JeffOYB]

Nothing is wrong with supported events... But...

They introduce an iron-clad barrier between social classes. That is, support is hugely expensive. Po' folk couldn't participate.

Self-support emphasizes holism over specialization -- another angle that, to me, widens the access to more social classes. I may well be wrong/off, but to me it seems that getting an elite, refined hone is more expensive than mastering a wide range of basic skills.

I suppose the whole thing is socially limited in a way, as Extreme Events are unwise for those without safety nets and thus rarely considered. Yet sometimes such people have a fine appreciation for the sacrifice and possibly could see the achievement as part of an important life path/stage. Usually one thinks of pro-sport as a way out of the ghetto or the sticks, and amateurism as the home of the privileged, but I'm not sure that's always the case. It's tricky stuff.

Anyway, I personally could never even fantasize about a supported effort, but I do indulge in my own small self-supported efforts and ponder bigger ones. And I typically can't afford any kind of entry fees nowadays.

To me self-supported touring of all kinds is democratic, and open to youth. While supported activity seems very much graying and affluent.

I'd love to see the hosteling/huts movement revive in the USA.

Then there's the whole FOOTPRINT issue that others mention. Low impact is where it's at. Ride to the trailhead, if ya can, man. (Makes me pine for more TRAINS.)

[bruce.b]

   Doing this race supported would ruin pretty much everything about it that appeals to me. I have no interest in seeing how fast it could be done that way.
   I love it how it is, just show up and ride with as few rules as possible with everyone equal and completely on their own.
   
   The issue of the environmental footprint a supported attempt would have also matters to me. I personally find it absurd to have a motor vehicle follow a bicycle on a tour or race. It defeats the purpose for me.

   bruce.b

[JeffOYB]

I find that pro bike racers are often very much into cars and motorcycles.

Several champs have gone on to rally racing and more. (Lemond tried Formula, I recall, and Stephen Roche got into rallying. I think an ex-pro may have recently had a bad rally crash.)

Some of my old pro roadie pals never rode, and never now ride, a bike for casual fun or utility/errands/commute. Hard for me to imagine. They can relate more to NASCAR and other pro-sports, it seems, than to the idea of using the bike as a tool for liberation. ...But they do appreciate fuel economy, I'll add.

I like moto's, too -- they have their place -- I even consider them as part of my "adventure rig." But I can also see that "smaller is better." A wilderness setting begs for low impact.

I note that there's a cross-USA trail route that motorcycle clubs have mapped and set up -- but my impression is that moto's rather ruin a trail for any other use, making the soil loose and deep. (Snowmobiles do the same in winter.) Horses can also make a trail tough for other users. I think when ya see the options that the vote naturally goes to low impact.

[afinemess]

I hope self-support will someday become the standard for both road and MTB ultra endurance events. It's just much more in synch with the ethics of bicycling culture - and getting a spare wheel on within 30 seconds of flatting just isn't that important during a multi-day race. The full support offered to RAAM riders helps to make the event as much a sleep deprivation contest as a bike race.

RAAM actually disallows self-support, requiring a follow vehicle at night - due to a self-supported rider being severely injured by a truck while night riding sometime back in the '80s.  And the need for a support team does indeed make RAAM expensive to ride. Most solo riders spend somewhere in the neighborhood of 20k. While safety is important, I hope they will someday take a fresh look at the issue.

The TD is certainly demonstrating that self-supported racing can be at least as interesting to follow, and fun to do, as supported racing.

[SueF]

I am staying near Abiquiu, NM and watching race progress. Want to see the racers pass through and would like to know in advance how they will detour around the Southfork fire. What's the best way to stay updated on route change?

[krefs]

A decision on an 'official' detour will be made shortly.  Apparently more forest roads in that area have been closed, so options are limited.  Look for info from Kevin Montgomery in the very near future, which I assume will be posted here and on the MTBCast message.  

[jmather]

Very sad news about Dave B. in the comments on the update page:

http://tourdivide.org/blog2010/fire_warning#comments

It's been an exciting race but I'm at a loss for words over this event.

[Preston]

We are deeply saddened at the loss of Dave Blumenthal.  He touched our lives so much these past two weeks and we didn't know him personally.  But came to know, very quickly,  what a wonderful, sensitive, kind man he was and still is!!  We were blessed to watch his amazing stamina and listen to his callins that were so fun and informative.  Our hearts go out to his wife, daughter and family.  May the Good Lord Bless and keep you.

Our prayers are with the family and ALL of the riders for a safe journey.
Warmly,
The Prestons'  (Dave Preston's parents)  Our Dave loved riding with him.

[Done]

Fewer events in life are more tragic than that of a young child losing a parent. The last entry in Dave's blog brings tears to my eyes: "She will miss me in ways an adult cannot truly appreciate, and I hope that our love will not be weakened by my absence." (http://type2fun.wordpress.com/)

I didn't know Dave or his family, but his last blog post reveals a compassionate, insightful, and loving man. I don't know how his daughter and wife will survive without him, but I hope that their memories of Dave will grant them a lifetime of comfort once the pain of his death begins to fade.

[mtbcast]

It's truly sad, especially for a young family. I hope some consolation can be found in that Dave was doing what he loved to do. He was challenging himself. We're all made better people by such challenges and Dave no doubt had such a great appreciation for life and his family from the challenges he encountered on his adventures.

[Von Petrol]

I feel so sad.

Colen Gereffi