Tour Divide 2013

[BobM]

Hi Ed,

Well, that sucks!  Hopefully an extra year of training and practice rides will reap benefits in 2014. Take care and get healed.

[JeffOYB]

So what's the reason for no official TD website? Why is the URL / domain / name dead? I forget if I ever knew...

Also, I wonder why the site is still listed as the official contact on Wiki when it hasn't been active in 2 years now...

[phil_rad]

Hi guys,

This is a difficult post to make. After a year of planning and preparing to tackle the Divide in 2013, injury has ended my hopes before I could even make the start line. I managed to dislocate my right kneecap during a heavy week of training at the beginning of April. Although I've done everything in my power over the last few weeks to try and recover, I've had to face the reality that my knee is not yet up to full-power efforts on local training rides, let alone tackling the Divide.

Throughout my years riding bikes I've been relatively lucky in avoiding injuries, so although the timing of this one is bitterly disappointing, I have to try and be philosophical about it. I see this injury as a setback: my desire and drive to pedal the Great Divide is as strong as ever and I will endeavor to line up in 2014.

I wish all the 2013 riders the best in their efforts — I will be watching your blue dots attentively, wishing I was riding alongside you. Until next year,

Ed

Ed,

I'm sorry to hear that. Hope you recover soon and continue your quest to ride the divide. Maybe we'll meet next year, I'm thinking about giving it one more try.

Cheers
Phil

[LenzMan]

Hello there, Tour Divid-ers...
For those of you who don't know, I am Kirsten...I run Brush Mountain Lodge in Slater, Co...just over half way when you are southbound...

I've been watching the start list stack up and it looks like another exciting year!!
So, with that in mind, I thought i'd drop a note here and let you all know that I am back on the mountain, and I will be here for the race again this year.  Matthew and his family will not be here...sorry for those of you who are disappointed!

Anyhow...some things about what I have up here...
There are cabins for rent, as well as a couple of campsites.  Showers, and laundry are available as well...
I will have food...burgers usually, or breakfast...and veggie options when i can...
The meals are by donation, so please come prepared to pay what it's worth to you.  We accept credit cards now, but we prefer cash...(who doesn't?) (:

If you are coming in late (if your spot is on, i'll see you coming)...I will do my best to stay up and feed you...however, if you are pushing up here really really late, i will likely leave you a note with directions to a bed, and see you in the morning...(:

If you have any questions, please feel free to post here or p/m me and i'll answer em as best i can...

Best of luck to you all,
See you half way!!

Kristen, I look forward to meeting you, spending money, eating your food and drinking you beer.... last year, this stop was a gift from the Gods.... see you in a little over a month +....

[mtbcast]

Episode 139 is up! The NUE Wildcat 100 starts this weekend, Tour de Fat comes to Atlanta, and we talk to Eric Foster about his Tour Divide 2013 race prep!

http://mtbcast.com/site2/2013/05/09/mtbcast-episode-139/

[Done]

So what's the reason for no official TD website? Why is the URL / domain / name dead? I forget if I ever knew...

Also, I wonder why the site is still listed as the official contact on Wiki when it hasn't been active in 2 years now...

As far as I know, there has never been a public response to this question. Seems like the site went mostly silent around the last time that Matthew Lee raced the Tour Divide. He was the guy behind the race and the site, so the easy guess is that he just doesn't have time for it anymore. Understandable considering how much work it must have taken--and he's got kids, work, etc.

Maybe it's time for someone from the "next generation" to get something going. Qualifications would seem to include an intimate knowledge of the route, abundant time and energy, reasonable web skills, eagerness to work for free, a level head, and a thick skin. Lots of people probably have two or three of these these characteristics, but few have them all!

[BobM]

As far as I know, there has never been a public response to this question. Seems like the site went mostly silent around the last time that Matthew Lee raced the Tour Divide. He was the guy behind the race and the site, so the easy guess is that he just doesn't have time for it anymore. Understandable considering how much work it must have taken--and he's got kids, work, etc.

Maybe it's time for someone from the "next generation" to get something going. Qualifications would seem to include an intimate knowledge of the route, abundant time and energy, reasonable web skills, eagerness to work for free, a level head, and a thick skin. Lots of people probably have two or three of these these characteristics, but few have them all!

The Tour Divide is still Mathew Lee's race, although anyone is welcome to start a new tour or race if they like.

[Done]

The Tour Divide is still Mathew Lee's race, although anyone is welcome to start a new tour or race if they like.

Sort of. Matthew Lee actually took a then-current race, the GDMBR, and expanded it to include the Canadian section. The route was actually established by the Adventure Cycling Association, not by Mike or Matthew. Further, the first racer was actually Stamstad. In short, Matthew Lee is just the latest "owner" of a tradition--and probably not the last.

But I'm not saying that anyone should take anything away from Matthew Lee without his blessing. Rather, if he's done with the website and the like, there is a precedent (which Matthew reinforced himself) for someone to take it to the next level.

[BobM]

Sort of. Matthew Lee actually took a then-current race, the GDMBR, and expanded it to include the Canadian. The route was actually established by the Adventure Cycling Association, not by Mike or Matthew. Further, the first racer was actually Stamstad. In short, Matthew Lee is just the latest "owner" of a tradition--and probably not the last.

But I'm not saying that anyone should take anything away from Matthew Lee without his blessing. Rather, if he's done with the website and the like, there is a precedent (which Matthew reinforced himself) for someone to take to the next level.

The GDMBR is the route, not a race.  The Great Divide Race is the GDR, which technically still exists and is/was run by Mike Curiak and Pete Basinger.  When Matthew campaigned (rather persistently) for inclusion of the Canadian section of the GDMBR, Mike pretty much told him if he didn't like it to go start his own race, which he did - the Tour Divide.

The first person to do a time trial of the ACA route was indeed Stamstad, but not as a race.  Mike Curiak also attempted a time trial before launching the GDR.

[BobM]

As to why the Tour Divide site is silent - only Matthew can answer for certain, but it seems that Parks Canada was beginning to wonder what this race was that ran on their trails without paying the $1,500 fee for an Environmental Assessment (which wouldn't even guarantee a permit being issued), and it also sounds like some National Forest Supervisors were "interested" since any organized event of more than 75 people also needs a permit to run on National Forest land.

[Done]

The GDMBR is the route, not a race.  The Great Divide Race is the GDR, which technically still exists and is/was run by Mike Curiak and Pete Basinger.  When Matthew campaigned (rather persistently) for inclusion of the Canadian section of the GDMBR, Mike pretty much told him if he didn't like it to go start his own race, which he did - the Tour Divide.

The first person to do a time trial of the ACA route was indeed Stamstad, but not as a race.  Mike Curiak also attempted a time trial before launching the GDR.

I think that we agree. Time-trails have, and continue to be, a part of the race. That's why JP's effort established a new record, even though it was a time trial. Likewise, Stamstad and Curiak both raced in the same style.

But all of this is pretty irrelevant, except for the question of what the future of the race should look like. It seems to me that if an organizer stops organizing, than someone else should be welcome to step up. This is already happening in many respects, in that the the Google doc sign-up wasn't established by Matthew. And the rules are now archived on the web--not maintained by Matthew. Finishes are no longer recorded by Matthew or anyone else--except for course records which now live on bikepacking.net.

All that I'm saying is that if Matthew Lee is finished, or if he remains publicly mute and abandons the website, then others will perpetuate the event--as is already occurring. Is that a bad thing?

[Jilleo]

I think that we agree. Time-trails have, and continue to be, a part of the race. That's why JP's effort established a new record, even though it was a time trial. Likewise, Stamstad and Curiak both raced in the same style.

But all of this is pretty irrelevant, except for the question of what the future of the race should look like. It seems to me that if an organizer stops organizing, than someone else should be welcome to step up. This is already happening in many respects, in that the the Google doc sign-up wasn't established by Matthew. And the rules are now archived on the web--not maintained by Matthew. Finishes are no longer recorded by Matthew or anyone else--except for course records which now live on bikepacking.net.

All that I'm saying is that if Matthew Lee is finished, or if he remains publicly mute and abandons the website, then others will perpetuate the event--as is already occurring. Is that a bad thing?

I think you answered your own question. There doesn't need to be any race "organizer." The Tour Divide is motoring along just fine as it is, with a big group ride in mid-June and various time-trials outside the main event. I think of it more as a Fastest Known Time endeavor, with a similar community, forum-based tracking, and ethics code.

As the above poster mentioned, there are too many permitting issues and other problems to preclude an official event on the GDMBR. Anyone who puts their name on such an endeavor is just asking for legal scrutiny, whether they collect any money or not. You know what went down with the KTR in 2007. Time trials on that route have quietly taken place ever since with no laws broken. It seems as though that's the best course of action for Divide racing as well.

[Christopher R. Bennett]

The rules state:

There is no finish time cut-off, however, current convention considers a competitive Divide Route finish time as approximately 155% of course record times. Currently this = 25days (~110 mi/day) for men, and 29.5 days (93 mi/day) for women.

Jay's record setting ride in 2012 was 15 days, 16 hours and 24 minutes. If we apply the 155% 'rule' to this, I calculate the new finish time cut off for men to be 24 days, 7 h and 25 min. So not to be too much of pedant, say 24 days, 8 h.

Ezster did it in 19 days, 3 h and 35 min. Which comes out at 29 days, 16 h and 21 minutes, so the 29.5 days seems to still apply.

Thoughts?

[mtbcast]

FWIW, the site is down due to a some technical issues. My understanding is that KMonty has been out of the US and is now back to address it.

[BobM]

The rules state:

There is no finish time cut-off, however, current convention considers a competitive Divide Route finish time as approximately 155% of course record times. Currently this = 25days (~110 mi/day) for men, and 29.5 days (93 mi/day) for women.

Jay's record setting ride in 2012 was 15 days, 16 hours and 24 minutes. If we apply the 155% 'rule' to this, I calculate the new finish time cut off for men to be 24 days, 7 h and 25 min. So not to be too much of pedant, say 24 days, 8 h.

Ezster did it in 19 days, 3 h and 35 min. Which comes out at 29 days, 16 h and 21 minutes, so the 29.5 days seems to still apply.

Thoughts?

Hi Chris,

Well, the first sentence in the rule answers the question in your subject line - "There is no finish time cutoff."  As to the benchmark number, yes it looks like it may have changed (although the text says "approximately").

[mtbcast]

I wouldn't read too much into Matthew not being as vocal. I've been in contact with him and I know he's working with Kevin on the website issue. Sometimes you don't hear but he's getting route issues etc. nailed down. But Jill makes a good point in that you have to be very careful not to make this seem like an fully organized event because of legal issues. The idea is a framework for the race is laid out for consideration in the results and a grand depart date is available.

[Christopher R. Bennett]

I wouldn't read too much into Matthew not being as vocal. I've been in contact with him and I know he's working with Kevin on the website issue. Sometimes you don't hear but he's getting route issues etc. nailed down. But Jill makes a good point in that you have to be very careful not to make this seem like an fully organized event because of legal issues. The idea is a framework for the race is laid out for consideration in the results and a grand depart date is available.

There is an added advantage to it not being an 'official' race. Ollie told me that his health insurance covered his stay in hospital after the race last year because there was no entry fee, start list, etc. It's just a bunch of people riding to Mexico/Canada as fast as they can!

[Longtrailahead]

Legal issues, who said anything about a race, official or not? We're just a bunch of mountain bikers agreeing on getting together for a long ride through the countryside right? Yeaaaa that's the ticket 

[BobM]

www.tourdivide.org is now password protected "by invitation only" (as of a couple minutes ago).  Anyone know what's up?

[JayP]

and why does there need to be an organizer? seems like there is plenty of information floating about to go do what anybody wants to do and if there intention is for it to be public then Trackleaders can pick that end up if you so incline to hire them for there service. and if people want to leave on the same date then that will happen through these outlets.
am i missing something? what is it that people are looking for from an organizer that you can't figure out right now - through others and the archived material?
i don't think it matters at this point if the website goes stale and there is no one person to ask curious questions too. it will carry on just fine without.