Tour Divide 2013

[BigPoppa]

Hey,

I posted this over in the "question and answer" section of the forum, but I figured I'd ask here as well. I've been looking at getting a new sleep system together before tackling the Tour Divide next June and I've narrowed my bivy selection down to a couple of options:

Nemo GoGo Elite (~600g)
MSR Alpine Bivy (450g)

After a few bad experiences with mosquitos hiking and biking in northern Norway, as well as the Rockies, I'm pretty set on a bivy having some kind of bug netting. Plus, it has to be waterproof as I'm not convinced by tarps — at the end of a long day on the bike I want a shelter I can roll into without too much messing around. I should add that I'm based in the UK, so any other suggestions would have to be available here. What I'd really like to know is whether you guys think that the weight penalty associated with the GoGo is worth the extra comfort / weather protection? Thanks in advance,

Ed

Do you mean the Outdoor Research Alpine bivy? I don't see an MSR bivy by that name online.

The Alpine bivy wouldn't be a bad choice. I have a version that is a bit lighter (the highland bivy I think). I use it for outings where I want to be comfortable but not uber light weight.

The Nemo gets good reviews but I don't have personal experience.

There is a big advantage for having a weatherproof system. You can leave a town in any weather, no matter how late at night and be confident that you can sleep well. BUT the advantage of that system is only going to be as good as it's owner. As in, sure you COULD go out into the pouring rain but WILL you? If you think that you won't leave town at least 80% of the time, the extra weight just isn't worth it.

Only you can answer.

[pickupel]

Hey,

Thanks for the info. Sorry, I got the name of the MSR bivy wrong — been spending too much time looking at different bits of kit online — I meant the MSR AC Bivy. I've looked at the OR Alpine bivy and it looks great, but it's just a bit too heavy for my liking. I've got quite extensive experience with cycle touring, having done several in excess of 2 months in length and I tend to camp out 99% of the time — but that is with a weatherproof tent.

I tend to use a bivy (currently cheap, heavy military issue) on shorter trips of 1-5 days in length and don't have issues camping out then, but I think I would start to feel it after a week of persistent bad weather — which I know is a possibility on the Divide. At the moment I'm leaning toward the GoGo, purely because I know how much recovery value there is in a good night's sleep over a bad one. I know game plans change, but I plan on camping out around 90% of the Divide.

Ed

[BigPoppa]

I would NOT go with the MSR. That thing doesn't breath at all. I tried it in an REI once and started getting the feeling of humidity after just a few minutes. Blech! I can't even imagine what that would do to a down bag after a whole night...

The divide is a different sort of animal. There are tons of places with overhangs and lots of trees to sleep under. You just gotta be sneaky.... Which isn't easy to do on little sleep!
 

[BobM]

I would NOT go with the MSR. That thing doesn't breath at all. I tried it in an REI once and started getting the feeling of humidity after just a few minutes. Blech! I can't even imagine what that would do to a down bag after a whole night...

The divide is a different sort of animal. There are tons of places with overhangs and lots of trees to sleep under. You just gotta be sneaky.... Which isn't easy to do on little sleep!
 

Concrete outhouses are as good as motel rooms.

[pickupel]

Thanks for the advice — that is exactly the kind of info I was looking for! It's pretty hard to try a range of equipment in the UK as we don't have a chain like REI, the outdoor stores we do have tend to have a pretty limited stock. It's good to hear that the MSR would have been a mistake. The other bivy I was thinking of was a RAB Alpine bivy (name is right this time!), it's eVENT and I hear it breaths pretty well, the only downside is it doesn't have a bug net. Do you think that a bug net is essential on the divide — how bad do the mosquitos tend to be?

I'm not too bothered by insects in general ... unless of course they're biting my face!

[Foster]

Concrete outhouses are as good as motel rooms.

I slept in one of those on whitefish pass.  I was so glad to see one of those after being followed by a black bear for a half mile.  That bear hung out outside all night but there was no way he was getting in.

[BigPoppa]

Thanks for the advice — that is exactly the kind of info I was looking for! It's pretty hard to try a range of equipment in the UK as we don't have a chain like REI, the outdoor stores we do have tend to have a pretty limited stock. It's good to hear that the MSR would have been a mistake. The other bivy I was thinking of was a RAB Alpine bivy (name is right this time!), it's eVENT and I hear it breaths pretty well, the only downside is it doesn't have a bug net. Do you think that a bug net is essential on the divide — how bad do the mosquitos tend to be?

I'm not too bothered by insects in general ... unless of course they're biting my face!

My first TD I used a bivy called the VAPR by backpackinglight.com They don't sell products anymore but it has a water proof silnylon bottom and a breathable momentum 90 top with a net opening in the head area. I still got some condensation but I would say it was pretty minimal for a bivy.

Event might work pretty well, depending on how warm you like to sleep and what the water vapor level is outside the bivy.

I'm from Alaska. I must say that I was pretty underwhelmed by the mosquito levels on the trail. I never had a problem sleeping but then again, my bivy was bug proof.

For my second attempt I'm going to bring a small tarp and a small ground sheet. I won't use a bivy but I will have a mosquito headset just to assure that I can sleep like a baby if the mosquitos get particularly bad.

[BobM]

My first TD I used a bivy called the VAPR by backpackinglight.com They don't sell products anymore but it has a water proof silnylon bottom and a breathable momentum 90 top with a net opening in the head area. I still got some condensation but I would say it was pretty minimal for a bivy.

Event might work pretty well, depending on how warm you like to sleep and what the water vapor level is outside the bivy.

I'm from Alaska. I must say that I was pretty underwhelmed by the mosquito levels on the trail. I never had a problem sleeping but then again, my bivy was bug proof.

For my second attempt I'm going to bring a small tarp and a small ground sheet. I won't use a bivy but I will have a mosquito headset just to assure that I can sleep like a baby if the mosquitos get particularly bad.

Yeah, but aren't you the guy who was passing out in your own videos at the end of the day?  Didn't look like sleep was a problem!

[sthig]

I brought this on the TNGA
https://www.bigagnes.com/Products/Detail/Tent/ThreeWireBivySack
and never used it because the only time I really slept was

1. in the back of my SUV (when I got to Mulberry Gap, it was parked at the halfway point)
2. in a parking lot on rocks

I was a little pissed because of having to wag around those tent poles and bivy sack and I never used it - but I really did FEEL like I was going to use it.

[hikernks]

It ain't cheap, but looks to be about the best Bivy I've seen.  eVent on top and cuben fiber for the bottom.

http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=173

The site also has other UL products that look to be pretty useful.  Just wish I could get my hands on one of the RD UL prototypes.  Think RD Viscasha made from cuben fiber.  Nice!

Side note - I'm in no way affiliated with the linked site, just thought it looked like a great concept.

[pickupel]

Thanks for the links guys. I love the look of the MLD eVENT bivy — I think it ticks all my boxes. The only rub is that I'd have to ship from the US and while I'm happy to pay shipping, experience suggests that I'd get stung with import duties. Although, if I can't find anything UK side that's as good I might just have to go for it.

The worst mosquitos I've ever experienced were in northern Norway — they made the ones in Scotland look like a joke — so maybe they won't be as much of an issue on the Divide as I've been anticipating. A mosquito head net and a breathable eVENT bivy could be the way ahead if I can't find a bivy with a net built in. 

[Mauro_N]

ED, have you looked at the RAB Survival zone divvy bag, simple light (320g) and waterproof. All that is needed is to wear a head net and its good to go for any condition the divide can through at it.

PS: Im just outside of Birmingham

[stappy]

Interesting bivy discussion. BigPoppa is one of my gear geeking heroes, I'd echo his sentiments. My complete sleep system this year, a non waterproof 7oz Titanium Goat Ptarmigan bivy and a 20oz Western Mountaineering Summerlite mummy bag, no pad. I did spend 6 nights indoors but was brave enough to head out of Eureka at 6pm in the cold and rain with not much hope for shelter until Whitefish. I spent that night in the Tuchuck campground outhouse on the backside of the Whitefish divide, thanks Erik L. for the tip. I was always pretty confident that something to curl under could be found. Do you every notice the dry shadows under ponderosa pine trees in a rain storm? I did had to live with a bit more uncertainty than Ollie, with his z-packs sub pound tent.

Have you guys seen this? Gets you pumped for divide racing. Any takers, fakers, future world record breakers out there?

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Jay-Petervary-Tour-Divide-Record-Ride-video-2012.html

[kcampagna]

Interesting bivy discussion. BigPoppa is one of my gear geeking heroes, I'd echo his sentiments. My complete sleep system this year, a non waterproof 7oz Titanium Goat Ptarmigan bivy and a 20oz Western Mountaineering Summerlite mummy bag, no pad. I did spend 6 nights indoors but was brave enough to head out of Eureka at 6pm in the cold and rain with not much hope for shelter until Whitefish. I spent that night in the Tuchuck campground outhouse on the backside of the Whitefish divide, thanks Erik L. for the tip. I was always pretty confident that something to curl under could be found. Do you every notice the dry shadows under ponderosa pine trees in a rain storm? I did had to live with a bit more uncertainty than Ollie, with his z-packs sub pound tent.

Have you guys seen this? Gets you pumped for divide racing. Any takers, fakers, future world record breakers out there?

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Jay-Petervary-Tour-Divide-Record-Ride-video-2012.html

awesome video!!!

[Mental-Miles]

I do have the MLD event/cuben Bivy ... as far as I used it (about 15 times) it is comfortable, breathable and waterproove ... I got XL-Version with space to put my pad in and I use a sheet under it just to make sure not to destroy the cuben.

But it is not an ultra light weight part: 4XX gr.

[hikernks]

MM - Thanks for the opinion.  Their regular eVent bivy is 12 ounces.  That's pretty darn lightweight to me, especially given the breathability of the eVent fabric.  In your opinion, how well would it hold up without a groundsheet?

[phil_rad]

I have used both ultra light one man tents and bivy's, both with good results. If the weather is dry then no doubt, I'd go for a bivy. On an event like the TDR where you WILL get wet and nasty weather I would personally go with a ultra light tent. More piece of mind, no added stress of having to look for a sheltered sleeping spot. If the weather down south turns hot and dry then you can always send it home and switch to a bivy.
Like everything else that has to do with gear for bikepacking races, this is also a highly personal choice. All I can say is get out in the bad weather and test, test, test. :-)
I really like Ollie's approach this year; he proved that you don't have to go all out weight weenie to go fast, I know his kit was really light but he could have gone even lighter.

[the tortoise]

Some tents are as light or lighter than a bivy. Zpacks tents get great reviews and are under a pound!
I use a tarptent notch and it is 30 ounces with poles, stakes and stuff sack.
I made a tyvek bivy and it is light and super small, but that will only get used if the weather looks good.

[BigPoppa]

Interesting bivy discussion. BigPoppa is one of my gear geeking heroes, I'd echo his sentiments. My complete sleep system this year, a non waterproof 7oz Titanium Goat Ptarmigan bivy and a 20oz Western Mountaineering Summerlite mummy bag, no pad. I did spend 6 nights indoors but was brave enough to head out of Eureka at 6pm in the cold and rain with not much hope for shelter until Whitefish. I spent that night in the Tuchuck campground outhouse on the backside of the Whitefish divide, thanks Erik L. for the tip. I was always pretty confident that something to curl under could be found. Do you every notice the dry shadows under ponderosa pine trees in a rain storm? I did had to live with a bit more uncertainty than Ollie, with his z-packs sub pound tent.

Have you guys seen this? Gets you pumped for divide racing. Any takers, fakers, future world record breakers out there?

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Jay-Petervary-Tour-Divide-Record-Ride-video-2012.html

Awwww schucks.....

Hopefully what I have in store for my next kit will blow your mind too!

[pickupel]

Thanks again for the help guys. I think I'm going to go with the RAB Alpine bivy — I've heard enough good things about eVENT to be confident in it's breathability. The added weight over the RAB Survival Zone (~150g) will be worth it to me when it comes to wet weather performance. I think the GoGo looks great for what it is, but I think it's just a bit too heavy for use during a race — even one as long as the TD. The RAB bivy doesn't have a mosquito net built in, but I think if I take a mosquito head net that will do the trick (thanks Mauro for the tip). I'll be able to get plenty of experience of how it copes in the rain during the coming British winter!

Also, thanks Stappy for the video — proved to be good inspiration for putting in a big ride in the cold today!