Tour Divide 2013

[BobM]

Hey...I was reading through the rules for the Tour Divide again since I'm racing come June and I just noticed a change (since I initially read them in 2011) in the rules for the Tour Divide.  If you haven't read the lately here's what I believe to be a change (if this has been discussed already, I missed it).  Note the term ANY direction:

4a. In the event of a serious mechanical that renders a bike unrideable, a rider may hitchhike[3] by motor vehicle in ANY direction to repair the problem. The location of the incident must be well-documented by SPOT tracker or other GPS logger. A rider may also receive assistance returning back to the exact location of breakdown to begin forward progress. Again, the entire incident, from breakdown to return to the trail must be well-documented by GPS.

I notice that that change appeared a few months ago.  Since Rules changes are not highlighted in any way it pays to re-read them.  The "times to be considered competitive" have been updated as well.

Bob

[robinb]

Hey...I was reading through the rules for the Tour Divide again since I'm racing come June and I just noticed a change (since I initially read them in 2011) in the rules for the Tour Divide.  If you haven't read the lately here's what I believe to be a change (if this has been discussed already, I missed it).  Note the term ANY direction:

4a. In the event of a serious mechanical that renders a bike unrideable, a rider may hitchhike[3] by motor vehicle in ANY direction to repair the problem. The location of the incident must be well-documented by SPOT tracker or other GPS logger. A rider may also receive assistance returning back to the exact location of breakdown to begin forward progress. Again, the entire incident, from breakdown to return to the trail must be well-documented by GPS.

Having a closer look at this line "A rider may also receive assistance returning back to the exact location of breakdown to begin forward progress" is this now allowing - once your bicycle is repaired - one to move FORWARD (not on your own power) on the route to return to the breakdown point?

robin

[BobM]

Having a closer look at this line "A rider may also receive assistance returning back to the exact location of breakdown to begin forward progress" is this now allowing - once your bicycle is repaired - one to move FORWARD (not on your own power) on the route to return to the breakdown point?

robin

Looks like at the point of breakdown you can go anywhere you like by any means, get the situation fixed, and get transported back to the point of breakdown by whatever means.  At that point you resume your race, with only the time penalty incurred in getting the repairs made.

[Cosmo K]

I read it as, you can move in any direction for repair as long as you return to the exact location, using commercially available services or hitchhiking, to restart.  You must keep your spot on during this time (or keep your gps running if you don't have a spot).  Seems pretty clear.

[robinb]

I agree its clear - when you are broken down to the point of an unridable bike, you are now allowed to move forward on the route to get repairs. (previously unallowed).

What I am not convinced of however is - once you have gotten the said repairs you are allowed to move forward (assuming you went backwards on route for the repairs) on the route via car or some other form of transport that is NOT your bike to the point of breakdown (again, previously not allowed).  This to me is a bigger rule change than the other.

If forward travel not under your own power is now allowed in both pre and post repair, I'm sure a certain Aidan Harding wishes this was in place in 2011.

robin

[stappy]

Aidan in 2011 and Erik Lobeck in 2010 perhaps even more so. I chatted briefly with ML last year at brush mountain lodge about it. You are correct the rule has changed, you can move forward on the course not under your own power. I believe it is restricted to mechanicals.

[Striker]

Looking over the Snow Depth maps for the year compared to last year.  Here is the map for this year.  Best I can tell is that for the same time last year the depths look about the same.  So what will this mean for hike-a-bike or potential reroutes?

[BobM]

Looking over the Snow Depth maps for the year compared to last year.  Here is the map for this year.  Best I can tell is that for the same time last year the depths look about the same.  So what will this mean for hike-a-bike or potential reroutes?

Depends on the Spring melt and the early Summer melt/rain.  Last year it poured for a week prior to the race in Banff.  The Smith-Dorrien was closed between Goat Creek Trailhead and Canmore due to washouts.  The route was flooded and washed out in places.  The gravel roads were soft.  Elk Pass was snow/mud/water for most of its length.  Flathead Pass had 2 miles of snow on the climb and 3 miles on the descent.  Cabin Pass was almost completely clear of snow but was muddy in places.  There were a few miles of snow on Galton Pass.

[THE LONG RANGER]

Depends on the Spring melt and the early Summer melt/rain.  Last year it poured for a week prior to the race in Banff.  The Smith-Dorrien was closed between Goat Creek Trailhead and Canmore due to washouts.  The route was flooded and washed out in places.  The gravel roads were soft.  Elk Pass was snow/mud/water for most of its length.  Flathead Pass had 2 miles of snow on the climb and 3 miles on the descent.  Cabin Pass was almost completely clear of snow but was muddy in places.  There were a few miles of snow on Galton Pass.

Pure unadulterated fun.

Yeah as BobM, the great majority of the snow hit last year was from really recent systems. Locally, Colorado is in super drought mode, so I'd be more concerned over forest fire closures, which are a downer, once you get that far south.

If there is snow, please do yourself a favor and think about your feet. Too many strong riders had to tap out because of problems with their feet, and probably because of walking in bike shoes in the snow. If there's snow: maybe even bring a pair of old running shoes to wear on the snowier places, and to ditch at your earliest convenience (Eureka?). Anything would be better than bike shoes. A pair of Chacos would be better. Best 12 oz you could bring.

[Christopher R. Bennett]

Aidan in 2011 and Erik Lobeck in 2010 perhaps even more so. I chatted briefly with ML last year at brush mountain lodge about it. You are correct the rule has changed, you can move forward on the course not under your own power. I believe it is restricted to mechanicals.

And medical. Both myself and Justin Simoni were DQ'd in 2011 going ahead on the route to hospital, bit it's OK now in an emergency.

With regard to mechanicals, I think you need to be honest about what is a mechanical. If you trash your derailleur and are forced to ride a single speed, then this rule should not apply as you bicycle can still be ridden. However, if you bend a wheel or the hub fails and the bicycle is not rideable then you should use the rule to go to the nearest shop.  We shouldn't move too far from the original principles ...

[BobM]

And medical. Both myself and Justin Simoni were DQ'd in 2011 going ahead on the route to hospital, bit it's OK now in an emergency.

With regard to mechanicals, I think you need to be honest about what is a mechanical. If you trash your derailleur and are forced to ride a single speed, then this rule should not apply as you bicycle can still be ridden. However, if you bend a wheel or the hub fails and the bicycle is not rideable then you should use the rule to go to the nearest shop.  We shouldn't move too far from the original principles ...

Perhpas Matthew should add medical, then:

"In the event of a serious mechanical that renders a bike unrideable, a rider may hitchhike[3] by motor vehicle in ANY direction to repair the problem."

It does seem quite clear that it needs to be major as it specifies "unrideable".

[hikernks]

I think you all are looking too deep into this.  The concept behind the rule didn't change.  The only thing that changed about the rule is now you can go in any direction instead of just laterally and backwards.  By all means correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the thought process behind the decision to accept motorized transport is the same, regardless of which direction you go.  Unrideable to me means this:  if you ask yourself "Can I ride this bicycle?" and the answer is "no," then your bike is unrideable.

What is unrideable to one racer might not be to another, but if you ask yourself the above question, and honestly answer no, then to me at least, you're meeting the intent of the rule and race.  Same thing applies for medical.  I doubt every racer would be able to reduce their own dislocated hip (correct, Foster?) and continue riding.  Most would require medical transport, but obviously some don't/didn't.  If the rider asks themselves "can I continue to ride?" and the answer is "no," then again, I feel they have met the intent of the rule.

Regarding the snowpack, I was wondering if the late depart date would have any significant impact on the snow levels on the passes.  Last year's race started on the 8th.  We're starting 6 days later, on the 14th.  How much of a difference is that going to make, if any at all.

Thanks,

Matt

[sthig]

I'm just setting my wheels in kerosine and when I get to the snow I'm going to light them on fire - snow melts instantly AND I look like that ghost riding comic book fellow!

problem solved.

(boy I need sleep)

[Christopher R. Bennett]

Perhpas Matthew should add medical, then:

"In the event of a serious mechanical that renders a bike unrideable, a rider may hitchhike[3] by motor vehicle in ANY direction to repair the problem."

It does seem quite clear that it needs to be major as it specifies "unrideable".

Agree that there are different definitions of unrideable. I believe last year one rider's shifters got stuffed up by debris and he considered the bike to be unrideable and used the rule. Not acceptable given the number of (crazy) single speeders (and crazier) fixies.

[sthig]

Not acceptable given the number of (crazy) single speeders

::raises hand::

[Veetack]

I agree that inability to shift does not render a bike unridable. However, that begs the question of a mechanical that is technically rideable, but will cause significantly more damage if one were to continue on. In that case, I'm not sure I would continue to damage my bike and put myself in a worse spot. I honestly think it's a judgement call and a matter of integrity.

[the tortoise]

I agree that inability to shift does not render a bike unridable. However, that begs the question of a mechanical that is technically rideable, but will cause significantly more damage if one were to continue on. In that case, I'm not sure I would continue to damage my bike and put myself in a worse spot. I honestly think it's a judgement call and a matter of integrity.

Integrity diminishes the closer you get to the border!

[Christopher R. Bennett]

I agree that inability to shift does not render a bike unridable. However, that begs the question of a mechanical that is technically rideable, but will cause significantly more damage if one were to continue on. In that case, I'm not sure I would continue to damage my bike and put myself in a worse spot. I honestly think it's a judgement call and a matter of integrity.

Everyone needs to buy the Cordillera v 4 to see some stories of integrity. I particularly like Elena's where she rode her bike with a broken seat rail.

[Long Haul Greg]

The previous breakage rule was truly unfortunate for some.  I think the new rule is both sensible and fair without further defining what constitutes an unrideable mechanical.  I agree with others who interpret unrideable as a subjective call, based on the rider's experience, ability to self-repair, and ability to tolerate pain/discomfort.  In the end, it's a decision the individual must make at the time based on her/his racing abilities, philosophy and strategy.  If the rider suffers a mechanical, a decision to either proceed or repair will ensue.  If she/he decides it is unrideable, the rider is going to be taking on a time penalty from that point in time and space until the bike is restored to rideable condition and the ride is resumed at the breakdown point.  That agonizing choice to stop/repair or continue with the breakage is available to all, so it seems pretty fair to me.

[Longtrailahead]

Okay, I'm gonna jump in here with sort of a little on/off topic comment to the current convo being had. Just asking, but per the "Tour Divide's" official page, it states in two parts - Under rules, the particulars, section 3 it reads that "challengers must always ride 100% of the most current map edition of ACA's 'main' Great Divide Route." Section 4 states - "Advancing (forward) on the route by any means other than one's own pedal power is strictly prohibited." Okay, reading both those lines leads me to believe that without any such issues faced due to mechanicals, the ENTIRE route must be ridden totally to be officially acknowledged if finished. What I am throwing out there is what of all the pictures I've seen posted online from other riders, walking or pushing their bikes up a hill. Around or over an obsticle. What of footage shown in the film "Ride The Divide," which depicts riders pushing their bikes. Does this action of moving forward render them all officially void of their effort, even if fully finished the entire distance? As for mechanicals, it seems pretty logical I think as to what would render a mountain bike totally unrideable.