Tour Divide 2015 - race discussion thread

[Rorr]

Wow Larry that's just to deep for me!! But what about the uni dude?

[aarond]

First of all, congrats to Lael, you are awesome!  Not sure we have reached
Gender neutrality, though.  In ultra running, fast ladies beat most men
But are still a few percentage points behind the fast men, just like here.
This is also true in multi day running ultras.  I can appreciate
Ez H. Not wanting to race boys, because bottom line is men have
A lot more T than women.  So, while fast ladies can beat
Most men, so far, they usually come close but don't beat fast men.

[Jilleo]

From a biological standpoint, men are basically doped-up women. Although multi-day, self-supported races place a lot of importance on strategy, decision-making, and experience, you certainly can't discount pure physical advantage. The playing fields will never be even.

[BobM]

From a biological standpoint, men are basically doped-up women. Although multi-day, self-supported races place a lot of importance on strategy, decision-making, and experience, you certainly can't discount pure physical advantage. The playing fields will never be even.

And young men are basically doped-up old men, so how about AT LEAST a recognized senior category for 50+ competitors?

[Flinch]

There are statistics, then there are statistics...

When comparing racers as a group, best to include all differences. For example, the glaring lack in the men vs women comparison is the average age of both categories. Someone please redo the stats using age and gender, and lemme know.

The long history of Olympic competition between elite male and female athletes has pretty much empirically proved that there is a difference in the max performance between women and men - regardless of who is doped up. The idea that men are basically doped up women is (mostly) wrong. Perfect example are the East German women athletes in the years 1960-1988 who WERE doped up with testosterone...and still fell short of male record performances.

Age category - being one of the more 'age experienced' racers, I can appreciate what Bob is saying. However, his age cutoff is incorrect....should be age 64+     sorry Bob, you'll have to wait!

While there is a danger of creeping featurism in modifying the TD to include age categories, and I know what the TD Gods feel about it (can you hear Matt twitching?), we as racers can set any informal category we choose. After all, there are already categories taking into account differences in bikes and gender.

In the end, it's what you do as an individual racer anyway. If the race is only about the winner, then logically the only person who should start is that winner. All the rest stay home.

Full disclosure: I scratched this year, so in effect all the women finishers kicked my booty. Statistically, that hurts!

[taprider]

Some running events have an age graded/weighted calculation
don't know what the formula is and how it changes with distance, but as an example lets say add 0.5% per year over 35 years old (but less than 55 years old) to the overall winners time (and add exponentially greater time per year for those over 55 years old)
You would basically graph a line showing the result of the World Record holder and how he/she would get slower over the years of aging, providing that athlete kept training and preparing equally to when he/she became the record holder

So by using that formula we as individuals can compare our result to that formula/graphed line and estimate what our time would be if we were younger
For example a 75 year old finishing in twice the time of the World Record holder would be an amazing achievement, but finishing in five times the record time would still be amazing but would not be considered to be fast
you can further modify the formula for being female, under 21 years old, one-legged, on a unicycle etc.

No recognition would be reported for how individuals compare to this formula, it would just be for the entertainment of Spot Stalkers and a personal (privately recognized) carrot for racers (with the exception of if that 75 year old racer is above the formula/line, then it that case (or similar case), it should be noted by the ultra race community)

[Two Tired]

so it goes...

[BanffCrazyLarry]

so it goes...

THAT ......
Is something FUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN Y - dude ! SHeeeZZZzzzaz !
BANG on !

Yup!
So it goes!
So true!

Thanks for posting the before and after pictures of Arnold Schwarzenegger when he use to be Mr. Olympia and now a sagging wreck. One might better take heed rather than put him down as to what he is representing.


It is perplexing interesting to understand that fundamental journey that " Starts " such people to give up. However, slowly fast, it is interesting to note to see it before our eyes. SCREW up!
And US, too! Can be subject to the same outcome!

But I have adopted this philosophy that I AM "Forever" trying to implement daily.
What you put into a car engine is what your going to get out of performance. Signs and symptoms 'eventually' show.

Hence....
What you put into your body is what your going to get out of performance and mental wise. Signs and symptoms >....Well, there's the CATCH point!
You don't see the symptoms till later in life or a few years later; for some only a few months or less! Ya!

Throw in going to the Doctor for ailments; and you have someone dumb & dumber. ( I so remember the movie) I mean, we go think'n we can't fix ourselves. We become this helpless little vegetable that goes into the mommy syndrome asking "help me please....I'm sick"
Then, we listen to him ...to the extent that we don't question most Doctors as to what caused this nutrition wise? What is THAT drug going to actually do??
We just take the prescription and carry on with life. Hoping it works!? WTF
It all started with what you ate. What you chose. What happened in your brain as a result.

Study how a car engine works....you CAN fix it !!!!!
Study how a brain works ...........you CAN CAN Fix it, too!!!
Not to forget to mention your body, too!

Oh!
How those pictures triggered my mind; along with a SUPER laugh! And then.....I kinda, got all serious. Scary. I could be like him if I'm not careful FAST!

Sad.
So sad.
I too, AM programmed over the years with what my parents taught me to what 'they believed' was good for me. In (key word) "Their time! " NOT in mine!
These days we have more information at our disposal than EVER BEFORE in our history of living on earth.

I AM SOOoooo trying to undo this hypocritical way that had been engrained over the years (from ways of long gone past) (Parental learned) *society learned from my choices......and trying to rewrite the chemical memories already made in my mind. While all - the - while knowing better as I study more and more and more. Wondering " How the flying F&^% ....did I EVER get here to where I'm at today choosing some of these shitty things I do?? "
I'm so embarrassed some days with myself.

As I see we don't have enough GOOD examples in life.
Why is it cougar mothers can raise up their cubs the right way all the time EVERY time!??
And we parents / humans that have so much choice freedom of choice to chose from keep screwing it up; having such bad attitudes!?? WTF eh!?

It is only by choice that one single living person can change their lives.
Without doing the "pawn-off" I'll wait till this Friday; this next month; this next New Year's Eve to do the change; the time is "Now" for your NEW mind your trying to form to take heed and notice to your NEW way of training it!

Don't worry.
It'll get use to it quite quickly.
When you DO what ever it is you wish to change - RIGHT now!! The sooner, the better.

But there are other powers at play.
Those, the higher ups, Illuminati, a series of systems now in place SO SKEWED that is literally undermining where mankind is heading in direction for our health and environment.

GeeeZaz!
All those thoughts zipped through my mind; jusssst from seeing the 2 pictures of someone who let me know; we're all going to age. But the thing is; do we have to so quickly???


Oh!
Don't get me going.
I apologize, everyone for the tangent. But its just what was on mind that I thought I'd share; that someone benefit from; that some one might get a lift; and change. Ya, never know!?? eh.  
I now, study epigenetics, neurobiology, nutrition, and the origins of what got u to where we made that 1st decision THAT made THAT slippery slope to future bad choices. It is an interesting area of study. Interesting debating with kids and youth. Let alone adults / parents alike.

Thanks for SUCH a GREAT laugh !!!!

Enjoy your journey!  

Success does not require one to keep looking out the window,
Success only requires, you, to look in the mirror.

Man - in - the - mirror. (Michael Jackson) AT the Grammy's GREAT video! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljpl0neGk2Q

[Will on 2 Wheels]

I raced the TD on a Trek Boone 9 CX bike this year. There were pros and cons but I agree that it's just a bike race. It doesn't matter what kind of bike you do it on as long as it's only powered by the rider. I had the advantage on smoother terrain, but the rough stuff really slowed me down. That being said, I'd ride it on a CX bike again.

Hi everyone. I am absolutely loving this years TD. However...
I have a question that I'm sure many of you may have already considered.
What do you think about the use of drop bars and cyclocross bikes in what is considered a mountainbike race?
I don't know what the situation is in the US but here in the UK you are not allowed to enter MTB races using cyclocross bikes. Equally I would believe that the use of drop bars would also be frowned upon.
Please don't shoot the messenger here, I think that I am asking a valid question and I am interested in hearing other peoples opinions.
Thanks. Neil.

[flyboy]

I raced the TD on a Trek Boone 9 CX bike this year. There were pros and cons but I agree that it's just a bike race. It doesn't matter what kind of bike you do it on as long as it's only powered by the rider. I had the advantage on smoother terrain, but the rough stuff really slowed me down. That being said, I'd ride it on a CX bike again.

My feeling is that you would be crazy to do this race on flat bars. Drop bars or a Jones loop give you so many different hand positions and lets be real, this race is 99.9% dirt roads. Look at what the top three rode.
 I would be worried about the speed/impacts on CX wheels versus mtb wheels but otherwise you just need a bike that you can comfortably sit on for 15+ hours a day for three weeks. I heard that there was a nasty CX accident on Day 1 this year due wheel failure. I could be wrong but there was definitely EMS services, looking for someone,  filtering through the pack prior to Elkford.

[sfuller]

I heard that there was a nasty CX accident on Day 1 this year due wheel failure. I could be wrong but there was definitely EMS services, looking for someone,  filtering through the pack prior to Elkford.

Not sure what bike he was riding, but there was a guy that ended up with a head injury and a concussion on day 1. Ambulance and EMS navigating the mud north of Elkford in mid-afternoon and then headed back towards town well over an hour later.

[BobM]

OK, everyone, Chris Bennett NEEDS stories if we are to have a Cordillera published this year.  ANYONE can write the story of their experience of the race.  Writing the story of your experience, whether it is as finisher, DNFer, stay-at-home significant other, blue-dot junkie, or whatever, is EASY!  No writing experience is needed and Chris is a VERY easygoing editor.  Just put your race in words and send it in.  The cause could not be better; I met Dave Blumenthal in 2010 at the Y in Banff and can attest to the fact that he was an incredible human being - modest and yet amazingly accomplished.  Had he survived his crash I'm sure he would have been back the next year to compete again.  The proceeds from this publication go entirely to his young daughter's college fund and I am proud to be able to help Dave out by contributing my story.  Please send in yours as well!

[flyboy]

OK, everyone, Chris Bennett NEEDS stories if we are to have a Cordillera published this year.  ANYONE can write the story of their experience of the race.  Writing the story of your experience, whether it is as finisher, DNFer, stay-at-home significant other, blue-dot junkie, or whatever, is EASY!  No writing experience is needed and Chris is a VERY easygoing editor.  Just put your race in words and send it in.  The cause could not be better; I met Dave Blumenthal in 2010 at the Y in Banff and can attest to the fact that he was an incredible human being - modest and yet amazingly accomplished.  Had he survived his crash I'm sure he would have been back the next year to compete again.  The proceeds from this publication go entirely to his young daughter's college fund and I am proud to be able to help Dave out by contributing my story.  Please send in yours as well!

Thanks for the reminder Bob. I only just finished getting my blog up to date last night, so I can concentrate on the Cordillera now. It was a major source of information and inspiration during my preparations for this years race and I definitely want to pay it forward. Helping Linnaea out would be cool too.

[mountainbaker]

I heard that there was a nasty CX accident on Day 1 this year due wheel failure. I could be wrong but there was definitely EMS services, looking for someone,  filtering through the pack prior to Elkford.

Yep, that happened just behind us coming down off the powerline trail. Heard a crash behind me, his front wheel had come out of the fork, at speed, probably 25+ mph. He was out cold. When he came around, he didn't know where he was, etc. One of us pressed his SOS straight away, he had his cheek ripped open and there was a lot of blood on the ground. I had started raining/snowing, so people set up his bivvy etc, then a Dr (Miles) turned up and took over, and I heard later some others arrived after we had left and made a fire for him to keep warm until the EMS arrived!

Shit luck being out 7 hours into the race. Really felt bad for the guy.

[Christopher R. Bennett]

Hi All,

Just doing the editing for Volume 7 of the Cordillera. Would be grateful for any photos you could e-mail me to include: chris [at] lpcb.org. I'm particularly interested in a good group photo from the Grand Depart - but also any action photos!

We are also light on contributions this year so if you know any riders please give them a gentle (or not so gentle) nudge. There is a nice short 'interview' they can do.

Thanks in anticipation.

Regards,

Chris

P.S.  Hopefully on track to be on sale early December.

[Christopher R. Bennett]

Hi All,

Volume 7 of the Cordillera is now available for purchase from lulu.com: http://tinyurl.com/cordillera-7. This year we have some 368 pages of stories on the 2015 race, as well as the ever popular 'Gear Survey'.  There is also a new annex thanks to Wayne Wegner with the most comprehensive list of videos on the Tour Divide you could ever hope for!

As always, the funds from the book sales go to the college education fund of Linnaea Blumenthal.

Thanks to the riders who submitted their stories, Sam Newbury for the amazing cover photo, Scott Thigpen for his cover design efforts, and my proof readers David Morrison, David Phillips and Megan Dunn.

There will eventually be a Kindle version ... but please buy the hard copy as it raises almost twice the funds over the Kindle version for Linnaea.

Regards,

Chris

[BobM]

Hi All,

Volume 7 of the Cordillera is now available for purchase from lulu.com: http://tinyurl.com/cordillera-7. This year we have some 368 pages of stories on the 2015 race, as well as the ever popular 'Gear Survey'.  There is also a new annex thanks to Wayne Wegner with the most comprehensive list of videos on the Tour Divide you could ever hope for!

As always, the funds from the book sales go to the college education fund of Linnaea Blumenthal.

Thanks to the riders who submitted their stories, Sam Newbury for the amazing cover photo, Scott Thigpen for his cover design efforts, and my proof readers David Morrison, David Phillips and Megan Dunn.

There will eventually be a Kindle version ... but please buy the hard copy as it raises almost twice the funds of the Kindle version for Linnaea.

Regards,

Chris

In case anyone is having trouble, you need to take the period off the end of the url for it to work.

EDIT:  Looks like it is fixed.

[flyboy]

Great effort Chris. I am sure it is a thankless task at times for you and your assistants but I am glad you persevere. The TD is such a personal experience when you are out there but one doesn't know what is happening just a few days ahead or behind. I am looking forward to reading about other racers experiences this year.
Three books ordered here. I am hoping to get some others hooked. The Cordilera makes great bait.

Also, thanks also to Sam Newbury for the amazing cover photo, Scott Thigpen for his cover design efforts, and proof readers David Morrison, David Phillips and Megan Dunn.

Cheers
Dave

[Willreinking]

What is the youngest solo age of a racer completing the tour divide, I'm 19

[Mikebike]

What is the youngest solo age of a racer completing the tour divide, I'm 19

What is the youngest solo age of a racer completing the tour divide, I'm 19

I rode a little with a young man who was 16 or 17 this last race and I'm pretty sure he finished...but I don't remember in how many days.  I also know Peggy from Czech Republic who was 20 finished in 21 days.