Tour Divide 2017 Race Preparation

[jmarshall312]

Any weather savvy racers/list members have snow - weather projections?  I understand that a lot can/will happen between now and the GD but I am curious what ppl are thinking.  I have to admit I am not familiar with the tools to make an educated prediction.

Jason

[GrizzlyAdam]

https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/snow/snow_map.html

[Iowagriz]

https://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/snow/snow_map.html

This^^^^  from that link, choose one of the links in the middle of the page (under Snow).  For example, these links under Snow Depth, Current:

For Graves Creek, just outside of Eureka and on the route:  https://wcc.sc.egov.usda.gov/reportGenerator/view/customSingleStationReport/daily/500:MT:SNTL%7cid=%22%22%7cname/-29,0/WTEQ::value,WTEQ::median_1981,WTEQ::pctOfMedian_1981,SNWD::value,PREC::value,PREC::average_1981,PREC::pctOfAverage_1981,TMAX::value,TMIN::value,TAVG::value?fitToScreen=false

You can really geek out and using the satellite view of the above map, see exactly where this is on the route.  Quick comparison to the online TDR map, this is 3.5 miles from the summit of Whitefish Divide and 937feet lower in elevation.  Currently showing 33 inches of snow depth.

Stahl Peak is the other nearby snotel site.  However, it is approx. 700 feet higher in elevation.  If I remember past years, I wonder if it is north facing, it seems to always showing much more snow.

[Flinch]

A lot more snow than average in Wyoming, and a bit more than average in Montana. Not sure of snow in Canada.

Wyoming snowpack map http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/data/water/wcs/gis/maps/wy_swepctnormal_update.pdf
Note that the route goes through the Wind River range (Togwotee and Union Passes) that sit at 199 percent of normal snow.

Togwotee Pass historic and present snow data: https://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/snow/snowplot.cgi?TOGW4
Note that the snow depth is roughly the same as in 2011, a major snow year.

Montana snowpack: http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/data/water/wcs/gis/maps/mt_swepctnormal_update.pdf
Route goes through the Flathead, passes of mention include Whitefish, Red Meadow Lake, Stemple, and Richmond.

This topic gets kicked around every year, and snow melt for the next 7 weeks will tell. If too much melt (as in Idaho lowlands presently) then flooding, if not enough, then reroutes around some passes possible, ala 2011 for example. In 2011 the race (no Canadian Flathead Valley), veered from going over Whitefish Pass to cutting through to Lower Whitefish Lake, then around Richmond Pass, modified on Stemple Pass, around Togwotee/Union to going through Jackson , to Pinedale - not an ACA alternate route!

While 'fun' to speculate, normally reroutes will not be decided upon until late - so no panic if you don't hear from Matthew or Scott until even a few days/hours before the race. I would familiarize myself with the ACA alternate route from Sparwood-Fernie-Rooseville (nice and fast - fairly flat- had to take it in 2013 due to flooding), in case the Canadian Flathead is snowed in. I make my own GPS routes from Google Earth for the ACA alternates, and save them separately just in case. Or get the latest Shimano Dogsled!

Personally I am anticipating reroutes. It's still a race!

On the other hand, the news that Josh is racing made my heart sink: now I've got to settle for SECOND place - drat! 

Glen

[gotchile]

Over!  Done!  No more!!  No one should line up!  That way some middle-aged, out of shape, has-been with bad knees and a rubber duck zip tied to his bike might have a chance of getting pie first.

10th anniversary of the TD is this year.

Just gets better with age.

But you'll poke your eye out!

[eec]

Over!  Done!  No more!!  No one should line up!  That way some middle-aged, out of shape, has-been with bad knees and a rubber duck zip tied to his bike might have a chance of getting pie first.

you mean I have a chance at getting first dibs on pie?

[PMalcolm]

Or get the latest Shimano Dogsled!

Campag, surely?

[KO]

Don't know if this is already posted and I just missed it, but when or where do I reserve a Spot tracker for the race?  Also, anyone using just gps waypoints and no map?  I have the second edition of the Cycling the Great Divide book and thinking of just copying the narratives and adding the updates since the book printed and using that along with my gps rather than having to stop and unfold and refold the map often. Good idea or should I fork over for $100 for all 6 Great Divide maps along with my gps?

[BobM]

Don't know if this is already posted and I just missed it, but when or where do I reserve a Spot tracker for the race?  Also, anyone using just gps waypoints and no map?  I have the second edition of the Cycling the Great Divide book and thinking of just copying the narratives and adding the updates since the book printed and using that along with my gps rather than having to stop and unfold and refold the map often. Good idea or should I fork over for $100 for all 6 Great Divide maps along with my gps?

The maps are (IMO) the least necessary navigation aid.  Cues are nice, GPS track is great, compiling a list of services with phone numbers is good.  The maps are most useful for giving you a sense of where you are in relation to upcoming things on the route and also have services listed.  Most people (I think) who bring the maps mostly unfold them at the end of the day to plan the next day's goals.

EDIT:  I should add that the maps have almost no detail off the exact route, even a few miles.

[KO]

The maps are (IMO) the least necessary navigation aid.  Cues are nice, GPS track is great, compiling a list of services with phone numbers is good.  The maps are most useful for giving you a sense of where you are in relation to upcoming things on the route and also have services listed.  Most people (I think) who bring the maps mostly unfold them at the end of the day to plan the next day's goals.

EDIT:  I should add that the maps have almost no detail off the exact route, even a few miles.

That's what I figured about the map.  For the CT I've always used the trail databook and that worked great but I don't see databook for Great Divide.  Maybe it's time someone made one.  Also, I've only previously used a Garmin Edge 305 and 500 before just to gather info about my rides.  I just got a eTrex 30x so this will be my first time trying to follow waypoints.  Pretty straightforward I assume?

[BobM]

That's what I figured about the map.  For the CT I've always used the trail databook and that worked great but I don't see databook for Great Divide.  Maybe it's time someone made one.  Also, I've only previously used a Garmin Edge 305 and 500 before just to gather info about my rides.  I just got a eTrex 30x so this will be my first time trying to follow waypoints.  Pretty straightforward I assume?

Not sure what a databook looks like, but the ACA cues are cheap and can be adapted to your needs.

I don't know much about the pros and cons of the various GPS units except to say that unless you have a super-duper one, you need to be sure to load the 10,000 data point file rather than the complete file or your route will end near Butte.

You don't exactly follow waypoints so much as stay on the loaded track.

[bakerjw]

Last year was an adventure of a lifetime where I mainly rode just to see what it was like out on the route. In looking back, I realize that I was drastically unprepared in some ways and quite well off in others.

Like Bonnie, I will never be a fast rider, but I believe slow and steady goes a long way. If my body holds out, I hope that it can drag my mind along with it.

As far as maps and such go. One of the best things IMHO are the terrain profiles. It gives an idea of what you will be facing in the next day or so.

[GrizzlyAdam]

If you've got the eTrex 30x, use the TD17 track (which is yet to be released). Waypoints are nice, but you'll appreciate the simplicity of a line drawn on the screen. Just follow the line. I use waypoints for things like camp grounds, gas stations, known water sources, etc.

[threepin]

for those wondering about snow, check out the stahl peak averages and year to date. Basically the snowpack relative to normal has been increasing lately due to a wet and cool april. Right now there is more swe than 2008 but a good bit less than 2011 (our 2 biggest years lately). What is more important though is the steepness  of the slope of the melt snowpack stays near max till almost mid may then goes to zero by 7/1. You can see how the weather close to the race date (and even the race date itself) can really change the remaining snow. We had an early melt for low elevations then for mid and high elevations it really slowed down. Right now the upper whitefish rd is largely clear of snow to what is called the taylor creek rd, about 5 miles up from the pavement at whitefish lake, this seems to me about normal. Last year i rode to red meadow pass sometime around memorial day, usually for that to be snow free you are looking at the beginning of july.
For the person who wondered about using stahl peak vs graves creek, graves though on the route goes to zero early so it doesn't give info in the critical time period. Stahl ,though higher and a little north is a good indicator because both whitefish pass and red meadow pass are snow machine routes so the snow is packed and melts slower. red meadow pass is in a snowier place than the others so though lower the snow accumulates more and lasts longer.

[THE LONG RANGER]

I'm happy to check parts of the trail in CO, but my gut feeling is that things will be pretty clear down here 

[KO]

Not sure what a databook looks like, but the ACA cues are cheap and can be adapted to your needs.

I don't know much about the pros and cons of the various GPS units except to say that unless you have a super-duper one, you need to be sure to load the 10,000 data point file rather than the complete file or your route will end near Butte.

You don't exactly follow waypoints so much as stay on the loaded track.

The CT databook is just a really small lightweight, convenient book broken up in the 28 segments and it has the only necessary info you need such as cues, elevation profile and map.

[Iowagriz]

Thanks for the update Threepin!  I've been trying to remember your user name from past intel.  I figured someone from Whitefish had tried to ride up that road by now.  I know from other local WF buddies that the lower snow had melted quickly and they seemed to be out early on the MTB and road rides.

But....I also saw video of snow flurries in the Flathead valley in the past few days

[Snowbd2u]

Best not to worry about the snow..... As you have 2745 miles or so between Banff and Antelope wells. Whatever it is, you will just deal with it as it comes. One day at a time. Move forward and have fun! My guess is..... You will have some snow to deal with, But that's part of the adventure.

[bakerjw]

Whatever it is, you will just deal with it as it comes. One day at a time.

Do this or lose your mind.

The mental game will get you if you allow it.

[threepin]

Thanks for the update Threepin!  I've been trying to remember your user name from past intel.  I figured someone from Whitefish had tried to ride up that road by now.  I know from other local WF buddies that the lower snow had melted quickly and they seemed to be out early on the MTB and road rides.

But....I also saw video of snow flurries in the Flathead valley in the past few days

no problem griz
its been miserable here for the last six weeks or so, i just checked and stahl peak went up 3 inches of swe in the last three days.
Poured here off and on today.
If i was to bet i would guess this will end up being the snowiest year without official re routes- not nearly the lower level snow of 2011 but seems likely it will exceed 2008 in snow cover.
But that's just my WAG worth exactly what i was paid for it

cheers