Tour Divide and grizzlies?

[DenisVTT]

So that post from pro_out made in the SoBo/Nobo thread had me wonder about what specific precautions I should take about grizzlies and bears. My plan is usually to ride with somebody else and be faster than the other guy but unfortunately this is a solo race 

I already have a bear bell, but that's it. Do I need a bear spray? The sales guy at REI said it was useless (an aggressive bear would already be on you by the time you got it out.) What do people usually do to avoid bad encounters in grizz country? Also, I saw this map from Matt Lee but I'm not too sure what "high probability" means. Like several times a day?

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&oe=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&msid=200334849650645495946.00047e45e4239031f00c3&start=0&num=200&sll=46.7248,-112.807617&sspn=1.269004,2.221985&z=7

Tips and advice welcome. Thanks.

[Done]

If you want to travel and sleep in bear country, read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Bear-Attacks-Causes-Avoidance-revised/dp/158574557X/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1

[russmcb]

Any interest in summing up the top 8 points from the book, Toby?  ;-)

[Done]

Any interest in summing up the top 8 points from the book, Toby?  ;-)

After taking a couple of stabs at this, I keep failing to distill it down into something concise and accurate enough to post. If you don't want to buy the book, check to see if your library has it (they probably do, it's pretty popular). Despite its size, it's actually a fun and entertaining read. I grew up in Jasper National Park, where there a lot of bears, and I credit the book with helping me sort out bear encounters many times. Absolutely worth a few hours of reading time.

[pbasinger]

I would carry bear spray for the Montana and Canada section.  No question. 

I was just talking to the author of Mark of the Grizzly who was updating his book to include mountain bike encounters and he mentioned that hunters, photographers and mountain bikers are the groups at highest risk of being attacked in bear country.  Mostly because we are quiet and tend to travel alone.

I'm not sure how many violent encounters could have been prevented with bear spray, but I doubt having it could make things any worse.

Making a lot of noise and just paying attention is probably your best defense, but I'd pack some spray also.

P

[DenisVTT]

I was just talking to the author of Mark of the Grizzly who was updating his book to include mountain bike encounters and he mentioned that hunters, photographers and mountain bikers are the groups at highest risk of being attacked in bear country.  Mostly because we are quiet and tend to travel alone.

Has there ever been any close call that anyone knows of for TD racers?

To TD veterans: what's your experience? How many sightings? How close? What did you do when it happened?

[Slowerthensnot]

Ahhh the dinner bell and human jerky seasoning....

on my sb starts i've seen them each time, and 2 griz cubs outside hellena mt in 2007

on my NB start in 2009 saw a black bear in NM....

Bear spray comparison - Proof!!!

neither look all that effective to me... But if you need a false sense of security, go for it

I've never carried anything but i follow these rules in bear country..... dont eat where you sleep, make noise,  keep food sealed tight, dont camp where the bears could be humanized, IE campgrounds with trash, towns with open dumpsters ect...

And be ready to fight with bike, gear, sticks, rocks ect.... if attacked

[EMathy]

I've got a couple of small dry bags for just that purpose (keeping food sealed tight at night). Plus if I am feeling motivated they can be tied to a rope and slung over a branch out of reach of critters.

Personally, I'll be doing my damndest not to sleep out in bear country, especially considering the amount of snow everyone keeps getting. Call me crazy, but more snow generally means harsher conditions for the wild life, including said bears. That worries me a ton. Well, that and hiking up and down every dang pass between Banff and southern Colorado.

[DenisVTT]

Call me crazy, but more snow generally means harsher conditions for the wild life, including said bears. That worries me a ton.

Well, another reason to go NoBo: by the time you get there, the bears will have been well fed eating SoBoers and whatnot.  

[mr cowboy]

having grown up in montana and looking at Matthew's map i'd say it looks right. like others have mentioned make noise. especially on blind corners or dense areas. sing out loud ring your bells....just make some noise.  not to put another scare into you but be on the look out for mountain lions as well. though they tend to avoid people they are all over the state. i've seen a couple while on rides near missoula. very cool but a bit spooky - again be loud especially if a cat is in your vision. make yourself appear large hop off your bike and pick it up.  my first encounter i saw the cat as i was cresting a hill. at first i didn't see it's head or tail and saw a brown tannish body and believed it to possibly be a deer. as soon as i was almost at the top of the hill i saw the head and tail. it was staring directly at me from about 100 yards away. like i said thrilling but un nerving at the same time.

[6thElement]

Does anyone else find Denis' avatar picture ironic in relation to this thread

[russmcb]

My buddy was mauled by a grizzly in Yellowstone some years ago; he was lost in thought hiking, not making any noise and surprised a mama and cubs.  He was able to hike out 18 miles, albeit bleeding profusely.  Me, I'm a LOT more worried about pick-up trucks than bears or mtn lions. 

[DaveC]

I backpack solo in Griz country all the time. 

1) Get and read the book Toby recommended.  Seriously, don't be lazy/lame and a worry wort.
2) Carry spray.  Has a pretty good record.
3) Make noise going around blind turns.  Your bear bell will do nothing.  An air horn is more along the lines of what might be useful.

I'd worry about surprising mom and cubs cooking around a turn at 20 mph, not one coming after you in the night trying to steal twizzlers.

[Jilleo]

I'd worry about surprising mom and cubs cooking around a turn at 20 mph, not one coming after you in the night trying to steal twizzlers.

Precisely. People spend way too much psychological energy fretting about camping in bear country when cycling in bear country is much more dangerous, statistically and practically.

[DenisVTT]

Does anyone else find Denis' avatar picture ironic in relation to this thread

Gotta make noise... 

[Marshal]

while moving along on my bike--my bear whistle worked to move 2 out of 3 TDR bears off the road
one I had to yell at to get it's attention (man did it jump when it eventualy saw me coming)
all 3 worked hard to get out of my area once they became aware of me

I used the whistle constantly in Canada and MT--so I may have also moved some 'never seen' bears

I had spray mounted in such a way so I could draw it, arm it and fire it one handed while moving (i practiced with a inert load)--I only carried it to Wy and of course never used it

my advice is to get and use a whistle--one that you can blow without excessive effort

I have mixed feelings about spray--if its not reachable then I feel it's just extra weight --mounted the way I had it I think it might have been effective in 'some' encounter situations but certainly not all

I worked hard not to camp out in Matt's red and yellow bear zone areas--not a big deal but I did not want the stress and extra effort-time to camp correctly in bear areas

[phil_rad]

I also saw too bears (black) last year. The first one by the wigwam river (canada); he/she was beating feet to get the heck outa dodge. It was almost like a black fash; what was that?
The second one was in Mt. going up red meadow lakes, this one was sniffing at something on the side of the road, once he/she took notice of me it vanished like a flash! I mean panic, get the f..k out! I had to laugh, nervously.
I think if you are alert and aware of what is around, and don't do anything stupid, you'll be allright. also make noise, lots of it!
Take a bell, a good whistle and if it makes you feel better, spray. All I had was a bell and a whistle.

[mikepro]

Add one more to list of "did not take spray".  I only rode with whistle around my neck.  No bell either.  Riding near other riders with bells proved to me that bells are not loud enough at bike speeds.  Blew my whistle while riding only once - in the dense singletrack area in the stretch between  and Holland Lake.

Spooked 2 small brown/black bears in CAN, but no Grizz sightings.  Sharing stories with a few other racers both during and after indicated that Grizz were active in the Union Pass, WY area, although all was quiet during my morning ride through there.

Personally speaking, the threat from cows, cars/trucks, and rabid dogs (in that order), were much more real than threat from bear.

[Nathan Jones]

My view of threats on the divide in the following order.

1. cars, just because they weigh so much
2. cows, THEY ARE EVERYWHERE
3. cats, bears, wolves (I saw a lone wolf at my camp and a baby bear cub)

Cows really irritate me though, they are everywhere and you just want them to MOOOOOOOOOOOOVE!  

[DenisVTT]

My view of threats on the divide in the following order.

1. cars, just because they weigh so much
2. cows, THEY ARE EVERYWHERE
3. cats, bears, wolves (I saw a lone wolf at my camp and a baby bear cub)

Cows really irritate me though, they are everywhere and you just want them to MOOOOOOOOOOOOVE!  

That's it, I'm buying cow spray!