Tour Divide Basics

[SuzM]

Phil - I'm having the same kind of debate myself, except my decision is between a super light no-frills bivy, and a heavier bivy that has a couple small poles and makes a nice canopy overhead to protect from rain and/or bugs. 

I'm starting to lean towards the lightweight one, it's probably a pound lighter then the other, plus I wouldn't have to worry about the poles breaking or carrying them... it's a tough call though, that little bit of extra comfort would be nice to have.  But as my list gets longer and the start gets closer, I'm thinking I'm going to sacrifice the comfort :-)  I'm pretty sure it was Matthew Lee who said something like if it's that nasty out and you can't sleep you should just get up and keep riding anyways, right?   

[phil_rad]

Thats right, he did say that. Maybe I should go with the bivy. Which one's are you looking at? I've been checking out the rei minimalist bivy sack, I just got my dividend and there's 20% off for members. ;-) It weighs about half of what my tent does.

[SuzM]

The REI minimalist is actually the one I have and will most likely be bringing.  It's very simplistic, obviously, and super light.  The only thing I've noticed about it is that it doesn't seem to breathe too well, i seem to get a good amount of condensation inside by morning.  However, from what i have heard this is an inevitable problem with most bivy bags of this type.  I also am always worried about being cold while I sleep, so I probably don't keep the zippers open as much as I should... 

[Marshal]

After settling my internal debate between bivy vs tent I went for a Titanium Goat Bivy. 
http://www.titaniumgoat.com/Bivy.html

I got it with optional bug netting and side zip.  It arrived the other day and it’s light and packs small.  I can tell I will need to be ‘gentle’ with it as the material is very thin and light. 

Note I have/like a REI minimalist bivy and used it on the AZT and lots of bikepacking trips  The REI bivy is about the same cost as a Goat, twice as heavy, not as packable.  And it’s main weakness is that it only covers your head with a bug net.  So rain protection is my big issue with this particular bivy.  You can get by in light rain by turning on your side and scrunching up the opening, or you can use a rain tarp of some type (but then you might as well get a tent imo).   On the other hand I found the REI to be extremely tough, no need for a ground sheet with this bivy, very easy to get in and out of with all the zippers and if you position a opening for inhale/exhale only minor/normal condensation. 

The REI bivy is now my tough ‘camping’ bivy (with a tarp in rainy conditions) and the Goat is my fragile, go-light, ‘damm the torpedoes’ race bivy.


Note on ‘warmth’:
imo , all else being equal, your choice of sleep pad with have a much greater impact on warmth than your bivy choice.

[SuzM]

I've had my minimalist for at least a few years now, and mine has a head covering that you can zip up to be completely covered from rain.  Weird.  I wonder why they would have changed it to just a bug net, that seems odd.  Anyways, I'll be using my rebate to purchase my Neo-Air pad, dang those things are expensive!   

[Marshal]

I've had my minimalist for at least a few years now, and mine has a head covering that you can zip up to be completely covered from rain.  Weird.  I wonder why they would have changed it to just a bug net, that seems odd.  Anyways, I'll be using my rebate to purchase my Neo-Air pad, dang those things are expensive!   

Ha, If mine (about 3 yrs old) had such a cover I would never have gone looking.  REI's web seems to show the coverless design.....

[daveB]

Shelter is the one element I keep hemming and hawing over.

One theory is to combine a bug bivy with a light tarp.
http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=55
Bivy+tarp total weight in the 12-13 oz range.

Or I might make some odd hybrid thing that's a bit lighter and lower, hence better in wind. 

[BobM]

Hi Phil,

I think it goes back to some of the previous thoughts about "what will it take to get you past the motel and down the road."

I have never used a bivy bag and the thought does not appeal to me.  I think if I took a bivy I would find plenty of excuses to motel it - bugs, rain, etc.  I've tented for 44 years now in all kinds of conditions and I know that for me, the tent will be what I need to get down the road, even if it is heavier.

Bob

[wdlandparker]

the main adavantage to a bivy over tarp/tent IMO is that they take up a lot less space and require virtually no energy to set up, perfect after a long day

[Marshal]

I think it goes back to some of the previous thoughts about "what will it take to get you past the motel and down the road."

This was basically my internal debate also. 

In fact I was ready to go with a tent, to the point I was waiting for a return call to place my order.   

However in the interim, the more I studied the route, with its many types of supplemental shelter along the way, the more I felt I could get by with the skimpy bivy.  I hope to ride past most of the motels, on into the dark & scary night and then get away with it, from a shelter/rain point of view. 

On the other hand if my body needs a warm dry room for recovery I will get the room(s). 

But I hope to find something to enhance my bivy on most/rainy nights and plan to just deal with one or two unlucky nights.  Part of the ‘experience’ and all that stuff…….

[JMeiser]

If I rode it again I'd ditch the bivy and use a UL tarp.  It can be pitched in a soft rain keep the moisture down just a bit...more of a psychological boost than an actual use, but more versatile than a bivy.

[BobM]

OK - cut it out!  You're confusing me! 

Geez - now I'm thinking a bivy bag under a fir tree or a gazebo or an abandoned gas station (or in a Montana Hilton) might work and would save me a couple of pounds.  Now I just need to decide whether to spend the money and try it out. Hmmmm.... maybe buy a bivy from an outfit with a liberal return policy and try it a couple of nights in my woods.

Thanks guys.  If this works out the climbs will be a (very) little easier.

P.S.  Joe Meiser seems to have a dry sense of humor, so I'm not sure if his tarp-only post is for real or he's just trying to see if anyone will bite. 

[JayP]

If I rode it again I'd ditch the bivy and use a UL tarp.  It can be pitched in a soft rain keep the moisture down just a bit...more of a psychological boost than an actual use, but more versatile than a bivy.

i second a tarp. roll yourself up in your tarp and you are now in your bivy. and when just drapped over you it breathes more butter, yep more butter! and for you home tinkers, sew some velcro to the edges to make a taco type bivy... as said above more versatile. and if it is not raining you don't even need it. in 07' i never once used my bivy, in 09' we used our tarp every night.

[sherpaxc]

How big of a tarp?  Get one too big and it's a hassle to get set up, to small and not enough coverage.  What would you folks with experience with them recommend?  The only experience I have with a tarp is under a hammock and I've used it once as a stand alone shelter.  It was Ginormous and I wouldn't want to deal with that every night.

[phil_rad]

I think David Nice said it best about gear,  " how much do you want to suffer?". It can go both ways in my opinion.

Now that the snow is gone, its time to get out and do some gear testing.
 
Again, thanks for all the good advice and tips.

[JMeiser]

P.S.  Joe Meiser seems to have a dry sense of humor, so I'm not sure if his tarp-only post is for real or he's just trying to see if anyone will bite.

Thanks for the feedback Bob!   

I've been dry in this thread (the singletrack comment?), but I'm serious about the tarp and other feedback I've provided.  It was really tough to roll out of towns at dusk and even harder to pass up a forest service shelter (concrete pit toilet) in the dark.  The last night on the trail in the Gila I spent the night next to a concrete picnic table, planning on climbing under if it started to rain.  I was a bit shell shocked at the chance of rain after being stuck in it and the mud most of time.

My 2010 setup includes a Mountain Laurel Designs Grace Solo Tarp.  I've used it a couple of times now and enjoy the flexibility.  I don't carry poles for it, I just use down branches and trees.  I typically pitch the head end by lashing it to a live tree (this could be a fence post in the high country, just make sure it's not live, don't want to get a jolt).  The foot end is held up by a branch.  Using 4-8 stakes I can pin it down to keep out the wind and rain.  If the terrain is rocky I'd just lash some larger rocks to the guy lines to hold it.  Of course all this is unnecessary if the stars are out or another shelter is available.

Keep it light, versatile, and simple.  Adhering to these things will pay dividends on the trail.  I cut 5 lbs. of gear before I got to Idaho.  I just didn't need it all.

[phil_rad]

 

I've been dry in this thread (the singletrack comment?)

Yeah, I fell for that one! ;-)

[forest_on_bike]

Joe, since you dealt with so much rain, were you happy with your rain pants and jacket? Which ones did you use?

For pants, I'm looking at Shower Pass Club Convertible or Storm. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

[JMeiser]

  I wore a Gore brand rain jacket and Showers Pass pants made with Event.  It was interesting to feel the difference between the two of these fabrics over the course of the race.  The inside of the jacket was coated and felt slimy when wet with condensation and perspiration, whereas the pants have a lightly fleeced feel and would absorb that moisture.

I had the pants shortened to a, just below the knee, knicker length.  My local outdoor shop shortened them and added a Velcro flap to cinch them up and keep them out of the wheel and drivetrain.  This was absolutely perfect! 

Both of these items were in the 200-250g range, light, but not so light as not to be durable.  Some riders wore hoods, I don't care for them.  To be honest I typically don't wear or bring rain gear on day rides.  I'd rather be wet and dry out naturally.  I wear a lot of wool clothing up here in the north and I wear it year round.  It regulates well and doesn't stink as bad after days in the saddle. 

[BobM]

Thanks for the feedback Bob!

No, Thank YOU,Joe!!  And thanks to all the other veterans who are taking the time to both provide nuanced insight and, when necessary, state the obvious.

My hang-up regarding shelter comes from nights spent "sleeping" out sans tent in warm mosquito weather, which we may well have this year on route.  The last thing I need after a long day on the bike is 6 hours of slapping myself, and when it's warm, cinching down the hood is not a very good option either.

Then again, as Matthew has said, once you get out there you will survive with whatever you have.