Tour Divide Basics

[Majcolo]

Ride faster, of course!

[Mathewsen]

Sweet Dreams...I am internally debating my sleep system.  Bivy, Bivy +, Tarp, even a light Tent.  I am familiar with the +/-  of each, depending on needs and goals...I know it’s a nebulous question with many variables, but any thoughts, comments?

Sweet dreams IS a nebulous question--as in, "cloudlike". Too tired to dream early on and by the end you're "overtrained", HR is elevated, and sleep can be fitful, dominated by visions of turning cranks dancing in your head'. Think sweat-lodges.

Regarding sleep systems, my school of thought (mind you, it's one of several) is that consequences of under-equipage in extreme weather on the Divide are less punishing than they may seem. Because the idea is to complete the route as fast as your body and mind will let you, when i bump up against my sleep kit's limit to keep me dry/warm, i get up and move on. Obviously it can get really bad out there sometimes but i don't fear death or even pneumonia if i'm able to pedal on, so i accept it as part n' parcel of going fast.

It's also true that hotel stops tend to suck up a lot more time than camping. I was never more efficient than when I woke up to a 33-degree morning, ate a handful of chocolate covered espresso beans for breakfast and packed up my bike. I tended to dawdle a lot in hotels, especially if they had a washer/dryer or one of those waffle-making buffets.

Yes, yes. Efficiency = easier overall (on the balance). Though motels can help mask the pain at times. like you say, it is a trapping. I challenge folks in 2010 to see if they can do the whole route on one motel rejuve.

this is going to be a tough one for me when i get there... music, books, or no?

Regarding "No", this might be a little out there, but in Nietzsche's work, On the Geneaology of Morality, his third treatise deals with what it means to be an Ascetic for various groups like artists, philosophers, priests, saints, etc. To the philosopher (which us self-supporters kind of like to think of ourselves) he wrote, it's the "sense and instinct for the most favorable conditions of higher spirituality". If true, then ascetic Divide ride or not, go with whatever conditions you believe will be most favorable for "higher spirituality". If that means hip-hop pumping in your ear--or nothingness--then so be it. This can also be said for other trappings of the Divide like motels and the yearn for clean clothes or even calling home daily. If it takes you to that higher place, then it's good, right?

[bmike-vt]

Yes. I meant it as tough as I tend to like quiet... But I have no way to wrap my mind around 3,4+ weeks. Zazen is one thing TD is something else. I have experience with the former for short stints. Generally I like the sound of me and my enviro - whether work or play.

Have to test it out this year on multi day riding...

Nice post !
 

[Groundshine]

When I was staying at the Banff Y Hostel the couple of days before the race I shared a room with a number of other racers/riders.  It was incredible to see who had trained and who had not.  Would you know what I mean if I said that I could tell who was going to finish and who wasn't?     

Cool!  If I send you a picture could you tell me if I am going to finish?  Serious!

[Majcolo]

Matt Lee = the Phil Jackson of SS racing.

[Marshal]

Deep philosophical reflections on TD racing, hotel rooms and other weighty matters……..

Yesterday I was driving in the snow all day and spent some time thinking about some of TD racers prior comments.  And how each resonates in different ways.

JayP’s comment about 1st preparing body & kit but then being ‘engaged’ in the day-to-day moment vs to much pre-planning is very much how I approach multi-day racing.  (Of course I plan to be using my GPS to hopefully avoid any long extracurricular climbs like some tandem racers I read about )

Matt suggests adding additional challenges/constraints, even beyond ones the rules require.  Constraints like 1 hotel room stay, no music or calls home, all to heighten the ‘experience’.  It’s an interesting way to look at the TD race.  I find this ‘vision quest’ approach very appealing on several levels.  On the other hand I will be hard pressed to finish as is, without adding any additional restrictions.  My approach will most likely be one of ‘practicality’, attuned for my age and capabilities.

Which brings up Jill’s “credit card as needed” and don’t worry about the cost approach.  In general this seems like the way I see it, Ie: Stay with in the rules and then just do, day by day, what’s needed to finish.  
Although I don’t think hotel rooms are automatically time wasters.  One can eat, clean/wash body & gear, sleep, un-pack-re-pack etc and get going at least as fast, and in general much more efficiently, from a warm, dry, well lit room vs camp.  The hard part is of course skipping the snooze or the 6:00am waffle machine etc etc and just getting back out the door after 5-8 hrs.

Jill also mentioned John Nobile using the ultimate ‘go lite-go fast’ method of skipping the sleep system altogether, and just carry a emergency bivy.  Other than in the middle of a long, slow, &  painful climb, I am never  tempted to try going super ‘lite-fast’ for several reasons.  
First I am not fast enough to cover the required distances.  This seems like a ‘record setting, all or nothing’ approach, best suited for a top tier racer like John.  Also it would be very tempting to ‘pre-arrange’ support, ie call ahead and make reservations, just to be sure I had that room waiting after I had stretched myself to the limit just to reach said room.  
But even if I had the riding strength to race the TD this way I wouldn’t.  I like the mental comfort of carrying enough food & water and a reasonable sleep system as part of a --ride or stop, now or later as one chooses-- self sufficiency’ approach.

Anyway, it seems like there is a lot more opportunity to find a room than I had originally thought.  That knowledge does makes it more tempting to go with a minimal/lite sleep system.  On the other hand I do like the idea of riding till I can not go any farther and then setting up a fairly comfy (ie: good recovery) camp and then doing it all again the next day.  Still thinking on this one………..

Humm…now that I think about it, our ideas about a ‘fairly comfy camp’ would probably horrify most mountain bikers…..

[DaveH]

On philosophy and other navel gazing aspirations as they apply to bike racing...

JayP's post I thought was great - a lot of detail shared there, and what really comes through is the notion of a *race*.  Preparation of fitness is far more important than all else once you get to a certain level of proficiency with multi-day racing.  A high level of fitness comes hand in hand with increased confidence, and that confidence will see you through the unexpected trying times that are bound to happen.

Why add more challenges than the event already dish out?  Every race is as hard as you make it, no matter the rules, route, conditions.  The directive implicit to races is to finish in the shortest time possible.  Whatever achieves that goal within the rules, that is what the game is all about.

There is a special type of experience to be had out there, but it isn't really one that you need to seek out.  It will find you as you go about the business of goal #1.

[Marshal]

Eat to ride fast, eat to ride long………..

Along with which sleep system approach to use I am internally debating an other basic TD issue, Fueling Strategies! 

Many times I really have to work at getting get enough calories down the hatch by the end of day.  I do my best to eat during the ride and have learned to time my intake to effort, like at the base of a big climb.  But if I have pushed myself a bit too hard over the last 12-15 hours, by the end of the day I can’t seem to eat enough food. 

During my self supported multi-day events I have successfully used two solutions to this problem.

One is to wake up after about 1-3 hours of sleep and eat an extra meal.  Naturally once I have rested a bit my appetite kicks back in big time, but it’s a bit of a pain to wake up, eat and then go back to sleep.

The other is to eat hot food.  It seems I can almost always eat hot food, even when my stomach says no to everything else.  Quality restaurant food, Fast Food, convenience store microwave food, it always tastes good enough to get more down than ‘cold’ food.  Of course the problem is finding a store or restaurant at the right place and time. 

So this brings up the idea of carrying the extra weight of a small stove and cook kit.  Like any extra weight it’s a trade off but I am wondering if I personally might not actually ride longer/faster, on average, if I use a stove to help get down the calories?  I normally do not carry a stove but the idea of a rest combined with a quick hot cup of food, anywhere/anytime along the route might make sense for me. 

On the other hand if there are so many places to get a room for the night then there will be even more places to get a hot meal……..

Thoughts, Comments?

[Mathewsen]

Matt suggests adding additional challenges/constraints, even beyond ones the rules require.  Constraints like 1 hotel room stay, no music or calls home, all to heighten the ‘experience’.

A number of times I have leaked my personal preferences for how I choose to race the Divide, but I hope I don't come across as telling people how they 'ought' experience it for themselves. Primarily they're subtle hints for how to go faster, including my '1 motel room challenge'. I'm not imploring folks to 'seek out' heightened experience either, but do believe it happens to be a nice byproduct of eliminating clutter. You'll identify more with this supposed grand tour 'transcendence' by race day 11 or 12, next summer. Perhaps my ways will make more sense by then. DH is right that 'it will find you'. At the very least it will come knocking. Yet, I have seen too many people be very successful at hiding from it as well; often behind the creature comforts of trail towns. That's fine. No one says transcendence is required to finish. Certainly any which way but loose is correct enough. My point up thread re. asceticism was not that it is the answer for all, only that for each of us there are 'personal conditions' favorable for tapping into the awe of a grand tour race. It's up to each of us to figure out what those are, ipod or not. One thing's for sure: you will probably leave Banff thinking one way on many ideas/methods that you turn 180 on by Mexico.

My approach will most likely be one of ‘practicality’...

Touché. For my personality, i have come to discover simplicity to be at the root of practicality (in my Divide racing). To think practically is also to be mindful of the disadvantages of one's methods. This is important for making the adjustments JayP speaks of. Just be mindful not to be rigid about your 'practicality'. to be sure, your idea of it will duly tested out there.

[re. nightly motels] This seems like a ‘record setting, all or nothing’ approach, best suited for a top tier racer like John.  Also it would be very tempting to ‘pre-arrange’ support, ie call ahead and make reservations, just to be sure I had that room waiting after I had stretched myself to the limit just to reach said room.

Sidenote: I realize it's different for other SS races but, for the record, calling ahead for a room once the race clock has begun has always been a legal part of Divide racing (GDR or TD). Any arranging from any phone takes time away from pedaling and is therefore seen as a wash advantage-wise.

Anyway, it seems like there is a lot more opportunity to find a room than I had originally thought.

I would say yes, theoretically, however, race practicality-wise, no. The slippery slope is that bird in hand is better than two in flight, so If your mentality is to seek rooms out, it will far more often be the case that you stop short of your potential than get pushed into the night looking for a room well down route. in the depths of slumming, you will find your mind makes many concessions unless you are principled on certain things. again, not saying a motel every night is wrong, but they are never positioned on route so optimally as have zero impact on your race pace.

Preparation of fitness is far more important than all else once you get to a certain level of proficiency with multi-day racing.  A high level of fitness comes hand in hand with increased confidence, and that confidence will see you through the unexpected trying times that are bound to happen.

Yep, generally true, DH. I wish I could say this was true of the avg. Divide racer. To an extent we preach amongst our choir here, so some of my caveats don't apply to all, but this is a 'TD basics' thread and last year's race packed plenty of fitness not accompanied by BPing confidence. As Divide racing (and SS in general) ages, so might that ratio grow. Such is the nature of the longest or toughest events in the world. Everest attracts gapers just cuz it's the tallest. The austerity economics i suggest are as much to temper the kitchen-sink carrying greenhorns as they are to herd SS veterans.

Why add more challenges than the event already dish out?

Sure. I think we all here agree on that fact. Where we may differ is on what exactly are the 'real' challenges to racing the Divide as fast as possible? I've been out there enough to know avoiding trappings is half the battle to achieving max speed.

[Marshal]

A number of times I have leaked my personal preferences for how I choose to race the Divide, but I hope I don't come across as telling people how they 'ought' experience it for themselves.

Keep leaking, the more I read about different approaches the better.  It seems clear, to me at least, that you are offering up your own personal experiences for examination and consideration, not 'telling'.  Most, basically all, of what you write resonates strongly with my limited experience, but what’s optimal for one can never be exactly the same for an other.  

Sidenote: I realize it's different for other SS races but, for the record, calling ahead for a room once the race clock has begun has always been a legal part of Divide racing (GDR or TD). Any arranging from any phone takes time away from pedaling and is therefore seen as a wash advantage-wise.

This is good to know, I hadn’t really looked into this.



 

[Pivvay]

There are lots of rooms and even more hot meals as you said. I think I personally would bring a tarptent before I brought a stove at the TD, not that either is really necessary. At least the former lets my "mind" feel like it can hide from storms rolling out from shelter found along the way that you're currently hiding in. The key, sort of what Matt said, is not that you have what you need but that you're mentally okay with giving up what you have to continue forward, be that a hotel room, a bathroom roof, a payphone spot, etc.

There are a few sections where a hot meal is scarce but that's the exception not the norm for sure. JP knows where every one is though. That boy EATS!

FWIW, Kurt started with a stove and mailed it home.

[JayP]

Eating is a discipline in itself. Learn it if you want to feel good and be successful!!!

All or nothing atitude without a sleeping system, to me, is silly. If you don't care about the nothing, so be it. When I start something I want to finish, regardless. I am sure my sub 2 lbs of sleeping system does not slow me down, and oh boy what a level of security, safety, and another way of leaving an open ended strategy along the way.

Rooms - I/We have slept outside next to hotels, even on there door steps, more so then giving in to the check in. It becomes pricey and is not efficient no matter how you do it. You can refresh yourself and your systems without the check in.

Creature comforts - Do what makes you feel good but also use those comforts to your advantage, don't take advantage. Also, with the things people miss, miss them it is natural, be prepared for that, ultimately you will be faster and maybe even appreciate that missed thing/person more.

When you make that call to your missed one, limited info is best. To much info makes you think to much. When I was solo, I was on a mission, pretty clear, and when I called my wife it was very quick and simple. Just enough to hear her voice, with no race info discussed. I like not knowing where others are, makes me ride my ride not someone elses.

Be resourceful, creative and simple!!! Love what your doing and enjoy it, one is very lucky to be able to do such a thing.

[bmike-vt]

jayp - what sleep system are you using? i'm thinking bivy or tarp... but currently hammock...

[naked indian]

I love this thread.

Just taking Notes, not saying anything, LOL.

but great thread, great info!

[Marshal]

There are lots of rooms and even more hot meals as you said. I think I personally would bring a tarptent before I brought a stove at the TD, not that either is really necessary. At least the former lets my "mind" feel like it can hide from storms rolling out from shelter found along the way that you're currently hiding in. The key, sort of what Matt said, is not that you have what you need but that you're mentally okay with giving up what you have to continue forward, be that a hotel room, a bathroom roof, a payphone spot, etc.

There are a few sections where a hot meal is scarce but that's the exception not the norm for sure. JP knows where every one is though. That boy EATS!

FWIW, Kurt started with a stove and mailed it home.

The more I read about actual TD experiences the more persuasive the full on ‘lite & fast’ gear kit approach becomes. 

My original thinking has been that perhaps I could carry a bit more kit for the TD vs say my  09 CTR kit.  Partially because the TD route is both less technical and longer, but also because I am attracted to the additional independence and isolation a more substantial kit would give me.  But the more I read about all the ‘room and meal’ opportunities the more tempting it is to rely more heavily on them (as back-up) vs my kit. 

I do think a lite & fast kit for a older, slower, mid-back of the pack vs a top tier racer might include a bit more contingency items.  The resulting additional time on the trail may necessitate a bit more food & water capability, maybe an extra base layer etc. 

But if I go all out with a lite & fast kit, with the bigger frame bag for my new HT bike (frame is to ship next week!!!) I might even be able to use your ‘back-pack in my pocket trick’.  It would be nice to ditch the back pack.

[Pivvay]

The big question is with the kit you decide on: It's getting dark, it rained earlier so it's cold and threatening more rain but it's only 8pm. Do you roll out of town to keep riding since you just finished a meal and resupply? Is there an item you did or could have brought that would make you comfortable with continuing on vs staying in town?

That's the question. If a 1lbs down bag vs an emergency bivy gets me (personally) back on the trail then I think the extra weight is worth it and makes you faster. Everyone has different fears and reasons to hesitate, those who have raced multidays have a big advantage from this point of view because you've got a little taste of what those are. And some guys are just super tough! I'm not sure I can really be included in that category.

[Majcolo]

The resulting additional time on the trail may necessitate a bit more food & water capability, maybe an extra base layer etc.

This is true. To a certain extent the front of the pack guys can go lighter because they are faster, which means less hours between resupply opportunities and less risk of being caught in a sketchy situation, i.e. above treeline in a storm.

The big question is with the kit you decide on: It's getting dark, it rained earlier so it's cold and threatening more rain but it's only 8pm. Do you roll out of town to keep riding since you just finished a meal and resupply? Is there an item you did or could have brought that would make you comfortable with continuing on vs staying in town?

That's the question. If a 1lbs down bag vs an emergency bivy gets me (personally) back on the trail then I think the extra weight is worth it and makes you faster. Everyone has different fears and reasons to hesitate, those who have raced multidays have a big advantage from this point of view because you've got a little taste of what those are. And some guys are just super tough! I'm not sure I can really be included in that category.

I definitely don't fall into the super tough category, but guys that showed me the ropes trained me to leave anything behind that would tempt me to stop pedaling. Hopefully I'll be able to put that strategy to the test in 2011.

[Mathewsen]

The big question is with the kit you decide on: It's getting dark, it rained earlier so it's cold and threatening more rain but it's only 8pm. Do you roll out of town to keep riding since you just finished a meal and resupply? Is there an item you did or could have brought that would make you comfortable with continuing on vs staying in town?

That's the question. If a 1lbs down bag vs an emergency bivy gets me (personally) back on the trail then I think the extra weight is worth it and makes you faster. Everyone has different fears and reasons to hesitate, those who have raced multidays have a big advantage from this point of view because you've got a little taste of what those are. And some guys are just super tough! I'm not sure I can really be included in that category.

Marshal, the GDMBR is not the CTR. There is very little opp. to get caught above treeline.

IMHO, the toughness Chris speaks of is displayed at the moment one is confronted with the option to motel it; at the 'choice' junctures (usually in towns). If you make it past this and out of town, the survival part down route in the backcountry will take care of itself--no matter how not conducive to good sleep or resupply it might be. You have no choice, really. You bivy. You cope. Part of toughness is great physical strength/endurance but just as important is the unwillingness to be swayed/influenced from gobbling miles no matter what. This is where my talk on unclutter and no concessions come from. Eliminate the 'tough' choices and you have no choice but to be tough--because ultimately we all have that capacity. And therein lies the beginning of the 'heightened experience' and one of the more beautiful elements of racing a grand tour. Ask of yourself earnestly with faith to go bigger than you've ever thought possible. When/if you respond and break through to the next level, the possibilities seem endless. As the Italians say, it's Belissimo!

Marshal, one last thing regarding mental. I am hereby calling you and anyone else out that tries to cite their age as a factor in their 'choices' on how to race a grand tour. I would like you to stop it. And get that nonsense out of your head. It's you against the course. period. Not you on an age curve, but you on a toughness curve. Cool?

[Pivvay]

Matt is 100% right on the "choice" thing.

The issue is not leaving something at home that might keep you from pedaling. It's bringing what you need to get out of town as quickly as possible and keep pedaling. This is certainly a Divide specific "thing" more than the CTR.

[Marshal]

Eating is a discipline in itself. Learn it if you want to feel good and be successful!!!

I really like your TD comments, this one also really hits home.

So true, and eating discipline is a entire thread in itself!!

Unfortunately I have learned from my multi-day experiences that I have much less lee way about getting down the required calories than most.  I think this issue relates a bit to a personal medical condition I have.  But mostly it relates to my lower LT and conditioning level.  I am a usually a bit less ‘trained’ than many who do these events but also have much less inherent/genetic capability.  Hence I am more easily pushed to the ‘edge’ physically and thus I can shut down my digestive system much easier than many.  Being well trained is key to being able to eat and I can control that, but I will always have a lower inherent capability—hence the hot food fix.  

I may be way off base here but I think the less technical nature of the TD route (vs the typical ST with hike-a-bike required routes I have done) will play to my advantage.  I hope I will be able to better control my effort/output and hence stay closer, but to the right side of that ‘edge’ where I overextend and shut down the stomach