Tour Divide Basics

[Marshal]

enzymes and probiotics

Dave, Matt, thanks for this topic---this is all new to me. 

Sort of stupid of me that I haven’t tried some of this stuff before for my multi-day endeavors.  Historically I have all sorts of digestive track issues. 

I will definitely be ‘testing’ some of these products as part of my TD prep over the coming months!!

I am more excited about potential improvement in this area than anything else discussed so far in this thread!!!!  Ha … Poo rules and all that stuff………

[sherpaxc]

Sorry guys, I wasn't trying to degrade the thread or anything.  Besides the knee issues that plagued me at CTR the only real issue with my body that I've had is GI issues on trail.  Getting fiber seems to be a source of concern for my tummy happiness. 

Anyway, love this thread.  I won't be at the starting line this year but hopefully in the next few.  I got to many other plans!  The world is so big and so many different adventures await...

[Mathewsen]

It would honestly be tough to make sense of it all anyway as sustainable power is sensitive to altitude.

it would be so cool to look at an entire ride file. Come on, DH. Hook us up. Be the man.

I'm not sure what Matt's love zone really is?  69% of LTHR or power at LT, and what that definition of LT is...and HR response will almost certainly fall throughout the event even though power may not.  I think for GDMBR racing PE is going to be king.

Sorry: love zone = ~69% power at LT.  69% of LTHR would be ridin' a touch too easy, me thinks. Certainly all those numbers would float...and, back to the 'heightened experience' conversation, the tuned-in rider intuits these metamorphoses and adjusts. PE (a.k.a. inner-diesel), goes sky high following the recovery phase (~day 5 for me). That's when the racing really gets fun. Even on a geared bike the inclination can be to climb out of the saddle for like 15-20 minutes at a time. You feel pretty strong (physically). And as a result, one can sometimes overdo it in that second trimester or "tri-semana", rather. Del Norte, CO often marks the point at which it catches up with me. I begin to sleep a bit more.

[Marshal]

Unknown Territory…

By the end of my CTR (7.5 days) my body/energy output had adapted and ‘changed’ from the 1st and 2nd day efforts.  It was a strange sort of feeling of having unlimited ‘diesel’ type power. This feeling really kicked in on the 6th day, I was now ‘in the zone’.  Riding for an extended period of time in that ‘zone’ will be unknown territory for me.

My training for the TD will include some 2-3 day sessions, but that does not seem to be ‘long’ enough to truly reach that diesel like zone.  edit--never fully reached that 'zone' in my two AZ 300 events, not long enough?

My current TD race strategy includes carefully ‘easing into’ this unfamiliar diesel zone.  But it never occurred to me that once there I might be able to over extend….  

Interesting thinking about that, so I guess if I am able to reach that point I will need to be aware of a whole new set of possible blunders.  

[wookieone]

Good to see a thread dedicated to the art of endurance racing, no $hiT, good stuff in here and the candid info is just  awesome! Sure beats talking about rules! Makes me wish I was racing the TD....almost

[Pivvay]

No doubt Jefe. I was just telling Marni what a gold mine this thread is!

[DaveH]

PE (a.k.a. inner-diesel), goes sky high following the recovery phase (~day 5 for me). That's when the racing really gets fun. Even on a geared bike the inclination can be to climb out of the saddle for like 15-20 minutes at a time.

Just so we're on the same page - when I referred to "PE" I meant perceived exertion, and when it goes up your legs are less happy for sure.  It sounds like you've used in a different (opposite) sense.  An important distinction to understand your post here...

[Mathewsen]

Just so we're on the same page - when I referred to "PE" I meant perceived exertion, and when it goes up your legs are less happy for sure.  It sounds like you've used in a different (opposite) sense.  An important distinction to understand your post here...

Doh. I assumed you meant PE, as in Power Endurance; an important measurement for TD. RPE, (borg's scale) would probably be a 6 (breathless but still able to talk).

I should clarify that when I speak of this tempo stuff, it is not to say that a rider doesn't have plenty of interval experience thrown in. Storms, headwinds, sprints for closing stores, etc. There's plenty else going on, but the goal is steady gunning.

[DaveH]

I should clarify that when I speak of this tempo stuff, it is not to say that a rider doesn't have plenty of interval experience thrown in. Storms, headwinds, sprints for closing stores, etc. There's plenty else going on, but the goal is steady gunning.

And to build on that notion, the power you can sustain "for a very long time" is heavily influenced by the power you can sustain for 1 hour.  There are many ways to build the power one can sustain for an hour, and unless you have unlimited time intervals, both above and below LT power, are instrumental.

The key point here is there is only so much to be gained by going long for training, sooner or later you have to go fast if you want to increase performance.

[DaveC]

...but in Nietzsche's work, On the Geneaology of Morality, his third treatise deals with what it means to be an Ascetic for various groups like artists, philosophers, priests, saints, etc. To the philosopher (which us self-supporters kind of like to think of ourselves) he wrote, it's the "sense and instinct for the most favorable conditions of higher spirituality". If true, then ascetic Divide ride or not, go with whatever conditions you believe will be most favorable for "higher spirituality". If that means hip-hop pumping in your ear--or nothingness--then so be it. This can also be said for other trappings of the Divide like motels and the yearn for clean clothes or even calling home daily. If it takes you to that higher place, then it's good, right?

OGM 3.18:

"For one should not overlook this fact: the strong are as naturally inclined to separate as the weak are to congregate; if the former unite together, it is only with the aim of an aggressive collective action and collective satisfaction of their will to power, and with much resistance from the individual conscience; the latter, on the contrary, enjoy precisely this coming together- their instinct is just as much satisfied by this as the instinct of the born "masters" (that is the solitary, beast-of-prey species of man) is fundamentally irritated and disquieted by organization."

[Marshal]

Researching the TD route with Google earth revealed some light weight, load balancing packing techniques that some might find helpful

[Mathewsen]

OGM 3.18: "For one should not overlook this fact: the strong are as naturally inclined to separate as the weak are to congregate; if the former unite together, it is only with the aim of an aggressive collective action and collective satisfaction of their will to power, and with much resistance from the individual conscience; the latter, on the contrary, enjoy precisely this coming together- their instinct is just as much satisfied by this as the instinct of the born "masters" (that is the solitary, beast-of-prey species of man) is fundamentally irritated and disquieted by organization."

Nice. Nietzsche was a smart dude. It says a bit about laws of human attraction.

We see this "disquietude" a lot as pro road racing's power-elite collaborate for critical, GC-decisive breakaways. They exert collectively in order to separate themselves from the peloton, but they're always restless and looking for an exit door, whether that be weakness in each others eyes or a 12% grade, etc. The old timers say racers used to work together much more amicably than now. Maybe it's a sign of top-heaviness like "super-squads", er doping in the peloton. Perhaps egos (read: paychecks) are big enough now that they can't even collectively exert to escape anymore. Breakaway "parity is dead", they say.

So re. Divide racing, yes, to some extent individual style can boil down to whatever satisfies our respective instincts; whatever animates us. Though, SS does sort of legislate out "organization" and emphasize individual mastery/solo prowess, yes?

[Mathewsen]

And to build on that notion, the power you can sustain "for a very long time" is heavily influenced by the power you can sustain for 1 hour.  There are many ways to build the power one can sustain for an hour, and unless you have unlimited time intervals, both above and below LT power, are instrumental.

The key point here is there is only so much to be gained by going long for training, sooner or later you have to go fast if you want to increase performance.

Yep. For the go-fast, I've tried to race a 'normal' later-spring schedule in prep/taper for Divide. 'Shorter' races are done mostly at LT -or just below- with frequent demands for 5 beats above LTHR (to power thru rollers or chase down attacks). Heaven forbid, even a crit or two helps (if you don't crash out).

Hand in hand with raising one's LT comes increasing one's ST (suffering threshold). Generally speaking, a higher ST for racing = good, but don't let too much early TD pain-cave fun-time lead you down the path to physical injury. If ST + LT = a rider's 'functional LT', Then ST + TD = a rider's 'functional ST' as it pertains to volume + scale of racing a 20 day grand tour. In other words, capacity to suffer is indispensable in Divide racing. Just don't be overzealous with it too early lest you overuse tendons, exacerbate the infamous delayed onset muscle soreness which even by itself is a helluva thing for a sleep deprived, lycra-clad bikepacker to endure between days 2-5 of brutiful MT. The combo can sometimes be a game-ender.

[Pivvay]

On top of Matt's ideas...I'd advise against going crazy with pre TD campouts, death marches, sleep dep, etc. You need enough to be prepared but not so much that you're any where near burnt out mentally. Those who have come through the progression from shorter races to endurance to multi day to the TD are probably less likely to push that mental limit since you already know what it's like and that you're able to not sleep, camp out in a bivy, pack your gear efficiently and eat junk food

[Mathewsen]

On top of Matt's ideas...I'd advise against going crazy with pre TD campouts, death marches, sleep dep, etc. You need enough to be prepared but not so much that you're any where near burnt out mentally. Those who have come through the progression from shorter races to endurance to multi day to the TD are probably less likely to push that mental limit since you already know what it's like and that you're able to not sleep, camp out in a bivy, pack your gear efficiently and eat junk food

Good point Chris. Though, one caveat: Your advice is not to say a TD racer (particularly rookies) can get away without doing lots of day-ride miles loaded with kit, specifically on the race bike set up. Delayed onset soreness hurts no matter how prepared you are but it's REALLY bad if you haven't well-trained your legs/core to handle the increased eccentric contractions required to ride loaded. It's even worth it to carry a few extra rocks in your bags in May just to shock your muscles/strengthen the tendons.

[Pivvay]

Yep totally. A mix of physical training including a loaded bike is goooood The TD and other multidays are hard enough without starting in poor physical condition!

I mostly was thinking about the mental toll of all night death march type training. A little is good if it's a big unknown so you feel confident. A lot is bad if it mentally wears you out.

[Mathewsen]

Yep totally. A mix of physical training including a loaded bike is goooood The TD and other multidays are hard enough without starting in poor physical condition! I mostly was thinking about the mental toll of all night death march type training. A little is good if it's a big unknown so you feel confident. A lot is bad if it mentally wears you out.

Yes, no hike-a-bike death march prep needed (in a decent weather year). One can even do the bulk of loaded training on the road if necessary. Ultimately, TD is part MTB challenge but also a pretty pure cycling challenge. Meaning: You gotta turn those pedals. You gotta be able to mix up cadences and really have good pedaling form. Address ergonomics like knee and heel alignment, cleat placement + bike fit well ahead of time. There ain't enough coasting to hide for long. Downhills never seem to last (long enough). John Nobile and I calculated well over 1 million revolutions of the cranks to get from Banff to AW (@20% coasting).

[Marshal]

And to build on that notion, the power you can sustain "for a very long time" is heavily influenced by the power you can sustain for 1 hour.  There are many ways to build the power one can sustain for an hour, and unless you have unlimited time intervals, both above and below LT power, are instrumental.

The key point here is there is only so much to be gained by going long for training, sooner or later you have to go fast if you want to increase performance.

Ha, No matter how hard I try, no matter which events I choose, just no escaping those bankety blank intervals…

[Mathewsen]

Ha, No matter how hard I try, no matter which events I choose, just no escaping those bankety blank intervals…

Marshal, sounds like you need to focus on your ST

[Slowerthensnot]

Yes, no hike-a-bike death march prep needed (in a decent weather year). One can even do the bulk of loaded training on the road if necessary. Ultimately, TD is part MTB challenge but also a pretty pure cycling challenge. Meaning: You gotta turn those pedals. You gotta be able to mix up cadences and really have good pedaling form. Address ergonomics like knee and heel alignment, cleat placement + bike fit well ahead of time. There ain't enough coasting to hide for long. Downhills never seem to last (long enough). John Nobile and I calculated well over 1 million revolutions of the cranks to get from Banff to AW (@20% coasting).

if I had finished this year it would have been 3,595,391.9 revolutions of the crank thats with being geared at 49"