Tour Divide, GD entries

[Briansong]

Just wondering what the masses think about this. I was discussing this with another forum member.

How many is too many? Should there be a cut off? Perhaps two GD's a week apart. Both limited to say...150? No right or wrong here, just a point to discuss.


Steve

[kiwidave]

I guess the question is: What is the problem/issue that this is a solution to?

[Briansong]

I don't think I really addressed it as a problem. My question is more looking down the road. What if there were 350? 425? that seems to me to present some capacity problems for the service providers along the route.

I'd think the bike shops in Whitefish alone would get clobbered over a two day period with volume that would surely ensue. I started in 2014, lots of rain and snow, many bikes were in pretty bad shape by then, needing service. I had to wait overnight and there were I think 160 or 170 that year?

Again, not stating it as a problem, just a point of discussion.   

[kiwidave]

Peak growth in SOBO GD starters was 2011 to 2012 when they increased 64% from 67 to 110. Since then it is just an increase of 10% per year basically.

154 started in '16 and the biggest issue was that the takeway in Elkford thought it was the following weekend and didn't have enough staff or pizza dough. I was one of the last to Elkford and still got a room, and some after me also did. There are two hotels and Dave Horton said it was not as busy as in '15. A number of riders had stopped before Elkford in '16 due to the conditions.

Yeah, the odds of a bike shop being busy or out of brake pads increases with bigger numbers, but that is part of the adventure and you can plan for it - I took 5 sets of brake pads in '16 as I knew I'd be at the back of the pack. The bike shops appreciate the business and do put on some extra staff/hours.

[ScottM]

It's a fair question, for sure. Increased numbers mean increased pressure on the route, in aspects beyond availability of services.

It's hard for me to imagine 500 GD riders being sustainable or reasonable!

[Briansong]

Hi Scott

My concern would be just that, a general feeling of increased pressure over the entire route, thus highlighting the "event" to a larger group of potential antagonists.

I have never participated in an event that didn't have some sort of a limit of entrants. Granted the TD isn't really an event so how does one limit something that doesn't even really exist. With more people, on bad weather years there would be more rescues, more of everything, both negative and positive.

[kiwidave]

Scott / Brian - I hear you and I guess it is something for you to consider going forwards. Trackleaders can pretty effectively enforce it by only registering XX spots for GD 1 and ZZ for GD2. The Tour Aotearoa has waves with a gap day between to enable all the racers to get access to a ferry crossing which is required early on and to relieve stress on some small towns.

From a back of pack point of view (53rd from 59 finishers <32 Days), I didn't find the resources on route stretched. I did notice that Li batteries were out of stock (I was right behind 12 guys for most of the race), energy bars / cheese sticks / roasted peanuts were also out of stock. Even on days 1 & 2 with dozens of riders around I was usually alone 95% of the time.

No number of riders could cause the trail damage caused by the ATV's on the route!! Of course, most of the concentration of riders is Days 1-4, after which they are well spread out and the scratches are starting to reduce the numbers.

Starting at a town (Banff) instead of a campsite helps to alleviate having the type of overload issues that can happen (e.g. Everest Base Camp). I was at the tail end and saw no rubbish on the route other than a banana (I ate it!), a peanut bar (yep, I ate that too! - thanks Steve), a cassette cleaner and a glove.

I personally think biggest issue to the event  continuing in its current underground format will be when someone gets hurt by a bear whilst not following accepted bear safety protocol. It will wake up Parks Canada / USFS etc and also many wildlife supporters who will be upset if the bear needs to be put down. I've suggested a workaround but understand that it could be seen as "nannying" people - not the intent at all but of course setting up some "requirements" could be seen as against the spirit of underground ultra-racing.

[bouldernick]

Go northbound.

[MikeI]

Am pretty amazed at how clean the route is .. going northbound, we get to see what's been dropped by the southbound riders from at least Wyoming all the way up to Banff and it's next to nothing ( unless they drop Bud Light blue cans ! ). 

[dskunk]

Am pretty amazed at how clean the route is .. going northbound, we get to see what's been dropped by the southbound riders from at least Wyoming all the way up to Banff and it's next to nothing ( unless they drop Bud Light blue cans ! ). 

Not completely clean. Someone in front of me kept dropping red gummy bears on the ground ( like once every 200 miles or more ). I didn't eat them, but then I'm not from NZ.
As far as limiting the GD, I personally think that will be a non issue. I think the numbers racing it will peak soon, if they haven't already. There are other events popping up which are just as interesting.
Hopefully the number of people touring the route ( and other routes ) will keep on increasing though, 'cause that would be very good for all of us

[Briansong]

The reasons for my posting this wasn't that I was overly concerned about litter on the route. It was more a sense that at some point, towns may decide we as a group really aren't welcome. If we as a demographic begin to get looked at, not as a positive, problems will likely ensue. It isn't that much of a reach to see just one overly zealous Forest Service, BLM or other government beaurocracy decide he or she doesn't like it and shuts down portions of the route.

Dskunk makes a good point about other competing events popping up. They will naturally pull participants from the TD.  

[Ailuropoda]

Hi Scott

My concern would be just that, a general feeling of increased pressure over the entire route, thus highlighting the "event" to a larger group of potential antagonists.

I have never participated in an event that didn't have some sort of a limit of entrants. Granted the TD isn't really an event so how does one limit something that doesn't even really exist. With more people, on bad weather years there would be more rescues, more of everything, both negative and positive.

I'm not sure it's really a problems.  Even 500 people get really spread out after the first few hours and by day three or four there's no fundamental difference between 200 racers, 500, or a thousand.   It's not like we're wearing the roads out...if the only problem is that some stores along the route early on are sold out of some items then that's just another factor to consider in planning.

[blurltd]

I think this is a valid concern, when you get that big of a group together there could be a few bad seeds that don't follow the leave no trace ethos. The Oregon Outback is a prime example of great race that turned into a poop show. The Divide is a much bigger commitment (financially, mentally, physically, etc.) so I don't think it'll turn into a party like atmosphere but you never know.

"Even 500 people get really spread out after the first few hours and by day three or four there's no fundamental difference between 200 racers, 500, or a thousand."

Yeah that will be an issue, more rogue campsites, TP, water bottles, and Pop Tarts dropped along the route for sure!

[THE LONG RANGER]

I can't comment on today's situation, and I would respect whatever the race organizers deem appropriate, but this same question was of topic in 2011, when the starting line was more like 70 people, which was around 2x it was even perhaps a year before.

I would say even then, the local authorities were somewhat interested, in a strangely undercover way. DO REMEMBER that Banff is a host to  many much, much larger events. There is issue of group size in the national/provincial park, but the time you start working as an individual in the TD is when you ride into the first trailhead. Be "incognito" as much as possible right before - roll out quietly.

The other thing to remember is that there most likely is more riders of the GDMBR (touring) than races on course at any given time, and they'll be on course much longer than you - as impact goes. You'll pass, uh, most of them I've never thought, "gosh this place is TRASHED" because of riders on route. I have thought that way on the Colorado Trail - not because of cyclists or hikers - but man, the impact of horses is... visual - and smelly. Sigh.

If you feel the issue is of greater importance, an ITT is still a valid way to go, as is NoBo. If I ever do the TD again, NoBo looks like a super solid option, starting the same time as Sobo.

[Russ Kipp]

High Country Lodge is ready for 2017 Tour Divide Riders.  We have food, lodging, showers, WIFI, Verizon cell service and some limited repair parts.  Located in the Grasshopper valley, 1 mile north of Polaris, Montana.  Track-leader is always on at our lodge so we are watching and waiting for you to stop.  Good luck to all and ride safe.  See you soon!  Russ & Karen Kipp

[bpeschka]

High Country Lodge is ready for 2017 Tour Divide Riders.  We have food, lodging, showers, WIFI, Verizon cell service and some limited repair parts.  Located in the Grasshopper valley, 1 mile north of Polaris, Montana.  Track-leader is always on at our lodge so we are watching and waiting for you to stop.  Good luck to all and ride safe.  See you soon!  Russ & Karen Kipp

High Country Lodge is ready for 2017 Tour Divide Riders.  We have food, lodging, showers, WIFI, Verizon cell service and some limited repair parts.  Located in the Grasshopper valley, 1 mile north of Polaris, Montana.  Track-leader is always on at our lodge so we are watching and waiting for you to stop.  Good luck to all and ride safe.  See you soon!  Russ & Karen Kipp

If you're not already aware this is a great stop along the way.  You can spend the night or just in and out.  Smiling faces and great food services.