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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #440 on: June 20, 2014, 09:11:50 PM
B_Bock


Location: Truckee, CA
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« Reply #440 on: June 20, 2014, 09:11:50 PM »

Got to ride down Fleccer Ridge to Wise River last night- was a real hoot!
But have to scratch  as rear hub bearings and BB 30 bottom bracket are shot

Bike issues plus open wound type saddle sore and all the lost time add up to 'pull plug' decision

Best of luck to all remaining

Will blog up details in a few
sorry to hear that you're out. I was looking forward to following a fellow 50+ rider. Maybe I'll see you out there next year?
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #441 on: June 20, 2014, 09:17:43 PM
ABfolder


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« Reply #441 on: June 20, 2014, 09:17:43 PM »

Ditto. Inspirational ride, Marshal!
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #442 on: June 20, 2014, 10:33:16 PM
Angler


Location: Ovando, Montana
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« Reply #442 on: June 20, 2014, 10:33:16 PM »

Yawn. 

Sorry Tony Arroyos of AZ I didn't want to make you wait this long but sometimes I gotta work for a living. 

Tony arrived in Ovando around 6 pm.  He was delayed by helping a fellow biker into Seeley I believe after injuring an ankle.  Remember Tony good deeds get returned 3 times over.  Hopefully he has finally caught up with Scott Picquet who he has been chasing.

That is all for today.
Good Night
the pack is thinning!
the end is near for us
Keep on Biking!


* Jun 20c Tony Arroyos AZ.jpg (192.4 KB, 640x575 - viewed 1151 times.)
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #443 on: June 20, 2014, 11:14:00 PM
MCR


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« Reply #443 on: June 20, 2014, 11:14:00 PM »

hypothermia--

Seems like a good number of riders were/are battling this. As a potential 2015 racer, I'm VERY curious how to avoid it, or to deal with it once it's begun. All advice would be appreciated! Thanks!!


I've been pretty surprised at the number of hypothermic riders this year. I don't know if it has been common in the past and we just didn't hear about it, or if this year is unusual and there really are more this year.

I do mostly short winter events where I can underdress and just warm up afterwards. But I'm usually outside for 6-8 hours every weekend in the winter, mostly sitting and standing, and I've got some strong beliefs about keeping warm.

1. Drink warm fluids. I think this is more important than any other thing. I can't tell you how many cold drinks I've drunk without realizing that **If you're kinda cold anyway, drinking a cold drink makes you really cold**. I finally figured it out, and it needs to be shouted from rooftops. If you're feeling okay and you drink something cold, it can put you over the edge. I really question the decision to not have any stove, even a tablet stove (e.g., Esbit) or an alcohol stove (e.g., pop can / Trangia) to just boil a cup of water for tea, coffee, ramen (even just the flavor packet), or even a bouillon cube. If you're desperate, just drink the hot water. It doesn't need to be boiling. Hot enough to drink fast. One of the small propane/butane stoves might actually be the fastest way to stop, heat water, and be back on the bike. Definitely worth experimenting. When you lean over a stove in the cold, and it lights, there is a blast of heat that hits your face. Sure you can catch yourself on fire. But if everything is wet, it's pretty hard.

2. The 99% percentile worst thing is rain near freezing. If you are packing light, you're basically screwed. There just isn't a lot that can keep you warm if everything is wet and you've only got a thin layer of insulation. (I do think the worst thing, the 99-100% worst thing is just extreme bitter cold, like a polar vortex from last winter.) Your only hope is drinking enough warm fluids or starting a fire.

3. Fleece under a shell. I'm not so certain about this one. I don't trust down if I know it could get wet (but it's so nice in camp). When I'm out at 32F and it's raining, I wear fleece with or without a shell. The shell really helps if you're moving fast (wind), but if you are climbing, it really doesn't seem to matter. But fleece is heavy for TD. Maybe a nano-puff-type jacket with a synthetic fill rather than down. Maybe someone else has experience with this. I tend to go for fleece because it's extremely durable---briars, branches, crashes. I also really like thicker polypro type gear. Capilene, Underarmour Cold Gear, some mil-surplus stuff. Might be good dual-purpose stuff for warmer days as a single layer.

4. Membranes. For TD, people seem reluctant to carry a lot.  But experiment with the idea of items that let wind through, like normal fleece and polypro and tech shirts, and contrast that with items that are wind and waterproof, like goretex, windstopper, and other "membrane" items. The problem, again, is 32F and raining. If you're sweating inside that shell, it's staying. So you need enough "airy thickness" that can be soaking wet and yet still keep you warm. You need to test it, because (a) everyone says their stuff is awesome, and yet (b) not everything is awesome.

4. Shock cooling. Shock cooling is an aviation term. It applies to cycling when you climb and get really hot, and then immediately descend while you're still sweaty and unzipped and *boom*, you've dropped your core temp. It seems like you need a strategy for this, especially in really bad conditions. At some point you need to realize, "I've gone over the edge, I need to warm up," and you need to have a plan to make that happen.

One final comment. I'm not a doctor. But I've read a lot about hypothermia. Warming up someone who is really cold has a few really scary issues. Probably the scariest is called "peripheral vasodilation." Say you see someone who is really cold, and their hands and feet are visibly cold. Q: What you do you? A:You ignore the hands and feet and you heat up their core, and only then do you worry about their hands and legs. The body has shut down blood flow to the arms and legs to prevent further core temperature loss. If you warm up the arms and legs, the blood vessels (the "peripheral" (arms and legs) blood vessels) vasodilate (open up) and dump cold blood into the core. **This is really bad**. It can cause drastic blood pressure drops and lead to fatal heart beat arrhythmia. Search "peripheral vasodilation" in this article: http://www.hypothermia.org/weinberg.htm  It's in there twice. Luckily, this is much less an issue for someone who is not severely hypothermic. But if you're not sure, and they're *really* cold, be careful.  And if you're a rider, don't let yourself get there. You could die. Have a plan.

Here's a story. When I was a kid, my grandmother would always say, "Put on a coat, or you'll catch a chill." I had heard that literally a hundred times, but nothing ever happened. Years later, I was in my twenties. I was alone at a house in the country. I wasn't feeling well. I was inside, 70F (21C), but I was cold. It wasn't even particularly cold out; probably it was freezing. I ran out to my car for a second, and can you guess what happened? Yes. I caught a chill. I got in bed under a ton of blankets, shivering, with my teeth chattering violently. I didn't warm up for an entire day. Now, admittedly, I was young and stupid. Today I would have made warm drinks and soup. I even keep an electric blanket now for when I have the flu. Now imagine being 40 miles from anything, in ice-cold rain, and having that happen to you.
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #444 on: June 20, 2014, 11:15:31 PM
deedubtee


Location: Alexandra
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« Reply #444 on: June 20, 2014, 11:15:31 PM »

Hey Russ Kipp.  Thanks for the photos.  Means so much when I'm this far away!
Denise
(Geof Blance's other...)
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #445 on: June 21, 2014, 04:55:40 AM
BobM


Location: The Keweenaw Peninsula, Michigan
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« Reply #445 on: June 21, 2014, 04:55:40 AM »

I've been pretty surprised at the number of hypothermic riders this year. I don't know if it has been common in the past and we just didn't hear about it, or if this year is unusual and there really are more this year.

There were some pretty cold riders, including me, the first few days in 2012. It's not the cold air that gets you, it's the 40 degree F rain pounding into you.  Even with effective rain gear, that rain pelting the front of the body as you ride (and develop a nice wind chill) will lower your internal temp.  Snow is actually preferable.
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Check out my leatherwork shop at www.etsy.com/shop/BirchCreekLeather

  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #446 on: June 21, 2014, 06:02:13 AM
jryter


Location: Gunnison, CO
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« Reply #446 on: June 21, 2014, 06:02:13 AM »

In 2012 we were stuck in snow and rain. I had many layers but Serge from Fernie took it a step further. He lined his jackets with the water proof aca maps!
Other...Go faster to get warmer. And yes. Put on everything for the downhill. I really liked knicker rain pants from Ground Effect. Those Kiwis ride in the rain all the time so the know...
J
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #447 on: June 21, 2014, 06:08:40 AM
mtbcast


Location: Sugar Hill, GA
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« Reply #447 on: June 21, 2014, 06:08:40 AM »

Can someone identify this rider? I can find a "Will" or "Bill" on the TD start list. I'm certain it's a TD rider because he mentions the rail trail.
http://mtbcast.com/podcasts/2014/TD14/MTBCast_TD14_20140621_1403329771_155.mp3
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JP - MTBCast.com

  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #448 on: June 21, 2014, 06:17:11 AM
Susannah


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« Reply #448 on: June 21, 2014, 06:17:11 AM »

Reply to MTBCast:  That caller you're trying to identify was Rob Davidson, calling with the bottom bracket problem (he's getting it fixed).  Sounds like people were eager to help him out.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 06:20:39 AM by Susannah » Logged

  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #449 on: June 21, 2014, 06:44:10 AM
mtbcast


Location: Sugar Hill, GA
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« Reply #449 on: June 21, 2014, 06:44:10 AM »

Reply to MTBCast:  That caller you're trying to identify was Rob Davidson, calling with the bottom bracket problem (he's getting it fixed).  Sounds like people were eager to help him out.

Thanks. It's weird how you hear one thing but once you told me "Rob Davidson" I heard it!  BangHead
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JP - MTBCast.com

  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #450 on: June 21, 2014, 07:20:14 AM
ABfolder


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« Reply #450 on: June 21, 2014, 07:20:14 AM »

I've been pretty surprised at the number of hypothermic riders this year. I don't know if it has been common in the past and we just didn't hear about it, or if this year is unusual and there really are more this year.

I do mostly short winter events where I can underdress and just warm up afterwards. But I'm usually outside for 6-8 hours every weekend in the winter, mostly sitting and standing, and I've got some strong beliefs about keeping warm.

1. Drink warm fluids. I think this is more important than any other thing. I can't tell you how many cold drinks I've drunk without realizing that **If you're kinda cold anyway, drinking a cold drink makes you really cold**. I finally figured it out, and it needs to be shouted from rooftops. If you're feeling okay and you drink something cold, it can put you over the edge. I really question the decision to not have any stove, even a tablet stove (e.g., Esbit) or an alcohol stove (e.g., pop can / Trangia) to just boil a cup of water for tea, coffee, ramen (even just the flavor packet), or even a bouillon cube. If you're desperate, just drink the hot water. It doesn't need to be boiling. Hot enough to drink fast. One of the small propane/butane stoves might actually be the fastest way to stop, heat water, and be back on the bike. Definitely worth experimenting. When you lean over a stove in the cold, and it lights, there is a blast of heat that hits your face. Sure you can catch yourself on fire. But if everything is wet, it's pretty hard.

2. The 99% percentile worst thing is rain near freezing. If you are packing light, you're basically screwed. There just isn't a lot that can keep you warm if everything is wet and you've only got a thin layer of insulation. (I do think the worst thing, the 99-100% worst thing is just extreme bitter cold, like a polar vortex from last winter.) Your only hope is drinking enough warm fluids or starting a fire.




I like the emergency combo of an Emberlit Titanium stove (no fuel to carry**) http://www.amazon.com/Emberlit-Ultra-Light-Titanium-Cross/dp/B00CB26NUQ and a MSR Titan Kettle http://www.backcountry.com/msr-titan-titanium-kettle . Some use a Klean Kanteen instead of the kettle but it's a bit heavier. A good firestarter is dryer lint coated with Vaseline (or I suppose A+D Ointment in a pinch since it's half petroleum based). Carry the coated lint in a small ziploc stuffed into the kettle -- with a Bic lighter and matches (for redundancy) -- and Bob's your uncle!

** The Emberlit will also burn dry cow chips ("Plains Oak") or any other handy organic material (small pine cones etc).
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 11:13:34 AM by ABfolder » Logged

  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #451 on: June 21, 2014, 08:53:53 AM
sheilar


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« Reply #451 on: June 21, 2014, 08:53:53 AM »

FYI - almost certain SheilaT forgot to turn on her SPOT when leaving Helena.  I spoke with her early this morning and she was ready to roll.  She is aware of the new Butte route and will take it.
sr
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #452 on: June 21, 2014, 10:19:27 AM
Kattamah


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« Reply #452 on: June 21, 2014, 10:19:27 AM »

Greetings,

Hey Angler, any sighting of Scott McKinnon or Jean Fankhauser? I got a text from my husband Scott last night to say he has sprained his ankle and Jean, my uncle, had to buy a wheel off a fellow rider who was scratching out (No word on which rider), but it sounds as if they have had a tuff couple of days. Just wondering if there's been a sighting of them or no.

Cheers all!
Kathryne
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #453 on: June 21, 2014, 11:41:04 AM
Angler


Location: Ovando, Montana
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« Reply #453 on: June 21, 2014, 11:41:04 AM »

Greetings,

Hey Angler, any sighting of Scott McKinnon or Jean Fankhauser? I got a text from my husband Scott last night to say he has sprained his ankle and Jean, my uncle, had to buy a wheel off a fellow rider who was scratching out (No word on which rider), but it sounds as if they have had a tuff couple of days. Just wondering if there's been a sighting of them or no.

Cheers all!
Kathryne

Kathryne! as you wrote they rode into and out of Ovando.    Had a great chat with them.  Give me a couple of minutes and I'll be posting their photos.  They are all good!
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #454 on: June 21, 2014, 11:58:26 AM
jb.doolittle


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« Reply #454 on: June 21, 2014, 11:58:26 AM »

Kathryne! as you wrote they rode into and out of Ovando.    Had a great chat with them.  Give me a couple of minutes and I'll be posting their photos.  They are all good!
I'm a co-worker with Jean. That's great news that they are doing good!
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #455 on: June 21, 2014, 12:06:32 PM
Kattamah


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« Reply #455 on: June 21, 2014, 12:06:32 PM »

Awesome news! Thank you for posting info.
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #456 on: June 21, 2014, 12:16:09 PM
nmjack


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« Reply #456 on: June 21, 2014, 12:16:09 PM »

Wow!  Jean is doing grand.  I'm his Brother and I'm still impressed with his fortitude.    icon_biggrin
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #457 on: June 21, 2014, 12:38:24 PM
tahic


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« Reply #457 on: June 21, 2014, 12:38:24 PM »

Thanks. It's weird how you hear one thing but once you told me "Rob Davidson" I heard it!  BangHead

It's that kiwi accent :-)
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #458 on: June 21, 2014, 01:19:36 PM
Russ Kipp


Location: Polaris, MT
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« Reply #458 on: June 21, 2014, 01:19:36 PM »

Much better riding conditions in the Pioneers for the past few days.  Riders are just stopping in for food and beta and pushing off for Lima.  The Bannack bench road, Medicine Lodge Road and Sheep Creek Canyon are in good shape for pedal power.  We are hoping for a few wedding crashers tonight at the Montana High Country Lodge.  Yes we have a mountain bike hanging on our sign.


* Ken Scott.jpg (152.85 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 719 times.)

* Leslie Handy.jpg (90.17 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 707 times.)

* Kent McDonald - Patrick Day.jpg (144.08 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 723 times.)

* Andy Lawrence.jpg (120.7 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 725 times.)
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  Topic Name: Tour Divide race discussion Reply #459 on: June 21, 2014, 01:27:10 PM
Angler


Location: Ovando, Montana
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« Reply #459 on: June 21, 2014, 01:27:10 PM »

Good Day Fellow TDR observers [and riders so I've just found out].

Looks to be a slow day for arrivals which is unfortunate; what are we to do now?

The 4 that have come and gone after a good meal and banter:

-  Scott McKinnon of the UK [another competitor of the best beard contest]
-  Jean Fankhauser of WA
riding with
- Tuan Diep of CA who is riding "underground".  Basically riding with Scott and Jean as an Independent Time Traveler.

Stories include the lack of brakes and brake pads or the increased need of them this year.  

But for me, the meeting up with Scott, camera in hand, was my biggest surprise.  He rode up to me and immediately said "So You're Angler!".  How did you know?  "I've been reading your posts and looking at the pictures."   I was the one standing with my jaw to the dust this time.  Thanks Scott!

Continued next post


* Jun 21 Scott McKinnon UK 02.jpg (170.71 KB, 498x640 - viewed 715 times.)

* Jun 21 Jean Fankhauser WA.jpg (148.95 KB, 545x640 - viewed 705 times.)

* Jun 21 Tuan Diep CA.jpg (155.75 KB, 567x640 - viewed 695 times.)

* Jun 21 Scott McKinnon UK.jpg (172.64 KB, 640x536 - viewed 705 times.)

* Jun 21 Jean Fankhauser and Rawley.jpg (120.65 KB, 480x640 - viewed 695 times.)
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