Tour Divide race discussion

[beckmank]

Sam mentioned they are working on their Spot situation in his most recent call. They're both kind of busy right now though.

Thanks! Didn't have a chance to listen to the latest call in from them.

[lmc81224]

Did I read correctly on pivot cycles facebook page that they are giving a firebird 7" travel bike to the winner of the tour divide? Wow if it is true.

Ummm....  as the admin of that page I don't recall writing that....  :-) 

As a friend of Jefe's....  GO JEFE!!

[Christopher R. Bennett]

The pictures of the Moe brothers got me thinking about the incredible story you'll find in The Cordillera Volume 2 (http://www.lulu.com/shop/eric-bruntjen/the-cordillera/paperback/product-16163086.html) on the Moe brothers life and their demise.

Kurt Refsnider was doing a geological survey Baffin Island when he stumbled across their equipment cache which had lay untouched since 1985 (they died after leaving the cache). Given that at that stage less than 100 people had raced the Tour Divide (let alone come in second), it was obviously more than a coincidence. Kurt has a great interview which complements the story.

While I have your attention ... I'll be working on editing Volume 6 of the Cordillera again this year (my wife thinks I'm certifiable!). We included a section last year on 'Blue Dot Watchers' so I'd appreciate any contributions from those watching the race -- as well of course from the racers! The deadline is September so I can get the book published by the US Thanksgiving. If you are willing to help please drop me a note at: chris [at] lpcb.org.

[mtbcast]

TD14: Max Morris called in from Atlantic City with an integrity check! It happens every year, I know, but you still shake your head.

http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/td14/

[Done]

I've caught a lot of shit for saying it, but ultra racing is losing its soul. Until a vocal majority take a stand, people are going to continue to dilute this awesome sport. Really nice to hear Max and Mark making some noise.

[mbeardsl]

Right on Toby.  To loosely paraphrase Mos Def:

"You know what's gonna happen with ultra racing?
Whatever's happening with us.
People talk about ultra racing like it's some giant living in the hillside
coming down to visit the townspeople. We ARE ultra racing.
Me, you, everybody.  WE are ultra racing.
So ultra racing is going where we go.
So the next time you ask yourself where ultra racing is going,
ask yourself.. where am I going? How am I doing?
Til you get a clear idea."

[29singlespeed]

I've caught a lot of shit for saying it, but ultra racing is losing its soul. Until a vocal majority take a stand, people are going to continue to dilute this awesome sport. Really nice to hear Max and Mark making some noise.

Agreed. Someone out there 'selling' tortillas is concerning about people trying to make money off this even and the vulnerabilities of riders 'in need'.  

[Done]

What's amazing is that the types of infractions that I noted two years ago in my blog (http://tobygadd.blogspot.com/2012/05/ultra-racing-rules.html) are actually looking somewhat tame compared to what's happening these days. Seems like the "it's just for fun, rules are for pedants" mentality is winning out over the "Do. It. Yourself" ethos.

If past discussions are any indicator, those who don't like rules will soon chime in and complain that this discussion is ruining their buzz--and that rules discussions are a waste of time. I've never understood that response, but I think that it's becoming very clear where it's taking this sport...

[BobM]

What's amazing is that the types of infractions that I noted two years ago in my blog (http://tobygadd.blogspot.com/2012/05/ultra-racing-rules.html) are actually looking somewhat tame compared to what's happening these days. Seems like the "it's just for fun, rules are for pedants" mentality is winning out over the "Do. It. Yourself" ethos.

If past discussions are any indicator, those who don't like rules will soon chime in and complain that this discussion is ruining their buzz--and that rules discussions are a waste of time. I've never understood that response, but I think that it's becoming very clear where it's taking this sport...

I just listened to a call-in by an apparently very nice guy who proceeded to describe what were 2 rules violations and one iffy interaction by him.  He did NOT seem to think there was anything wrong.  I don't know if it is an education issue or what.  The type of thing he described would be wonderful trail experiences for a touring cyclist, but are big no-nos for the TD.  Matthew has made it quite clear that water and outside accommodations (shed, garage...) are OK but anything else is taboo - food, showers, bedrooms....

If people are OK with having their TD attempt supported by trail angels and Spot stalkers, I don't know what can be done.

[bruce.b]

Maybe it's time for a group of people dedicated to following the rules and spirit of the race all agree to do a NOBO start next year as a way of reducing the craziness? There are now so many people doing the Banff grand depart that this was inevitable. 119 this year? It's also maybe time to move this to it's own thread?

[ABfolder]

The pictures of the Moe brothers got me thinking about the incredible story you'll find in The Cordillera Volume 2 (http://www.lulu.com/shop/eric-bruntjen/the-cordillera/paperback/product-16163086.html) on the Moe brothers life and their demise.

Kurt Refsnider was doing a geological survey Baffin Island when he stumbled across their equipment cache which had lay untouched since 1995 (they died after leaving the cache). Given that at that stage less than 100 people had raced the Tour Divide (let alone come in second), it was obviously more than a coincidence. Kurt has a great interview which complements the story.

While I have your attention ... I'll be working on editing Volume 6 of the Cordillera again this year (my wife thinks I'm certifiable!). We included a section last year on 'Blue Dot Watchers' so I'd appreciate any contributions from those watching the race -- as well of course from the racers! The deadline is September so I can get the book published by the US Thanksgiving. If you are willing to help please drop me a note at: chris [at] lpcb.org.

Here's a link to Kurt's "coincidental" encounter that you mentioned: http://krefs.blogspot.ca/2010/12/coincidental-divide.html .

Thanks for the LuLu link as well. I picked up Volumes 2 and 3 -- that completes my collection. :-)

[ABfolder]

Maybe it's time for a group of people dedicated to following the rules and spirit of the race all agree to do a NOBO start next year as a way of reducing the craziness? There are now so many people doing the Banff grand depart that this was inevitable. 119 this year?

And why not start the NOBO on June 24th to commemorate the Moes' pioneering effort? That's why I brought them up today. I'd like to see the start date, north and/or south, match their history-making departure date.

BTW I forgot to mention what the two brothers wore on their feet during that 1984 trip: Nike running shoes. High-tech stuff!

[bruce.b]

The Moe brothers story in Cordillera #2 was incredible. I had read about the Moe brothers before, but after reading that story I spent a couple of hours reading about them again. Amazing and tragic story about two brothers that were larger than life.

[Christopher R. Bennett]

Max's call was sad to hear. Toby's excellent post is a must read as he focuses us on the core of what it means to attempt at ultra racing.

I can personally attest how hard it is to follow the rules. In 2011 I got an asthma attack when going northbound on the first day. I managed to get to the paved road south of Silver City and faced the decision to ride on or grab a ride to the hospital. After a mile I knew I couldn't make it so grabbed a ride and called in once they released me to DQ myself. Pretty depressing after so much training and having come so far, but those are the rules (http://tourdivide.org/the_rules).

Last year I unintentionally invoked a lot of discussion on the rules when I raised the question of people starting the TDR with a planned finish time outside of the upper limit to be included as competitive. I fully understand and accept that there are people who view things differently, but if you want to do the TDR  then we should respect the ethos of the race. Yes, race.

I will acknowledge that I broke the rules twice (that I recall!) during my three attempts. Once when a rider ran out of water and was dangerously dehydrated (he was wobbling while trying to ride). The second when a rider was bonking in the wilderness and I gave them an energy bar. In both instances I would rather have left them to their own devices, but felt it was dangerous as it was a very long way until they could self-supply. Personal safety trumps purism, even in my books.

[ComoDepot]

Maybe it's time for a group of people dedicated to following the rules and spirit of the race all agree to do a NOBO start next year as a way of reducing the craziness? There are now so many people doing the Banff grand depart that this was inevitable. 119 this year? It's also maybe time to move this to it's own thread?

I do not think the 119 is an issue, or 200.

I did read the link to the rules, and then the post about having a SPOT sent on, that would seem to be a clear breach?

It made me think of how many people have strictly complied with those rules, for example I have had people contact me en route which would seem another breach.

The number of participants who think they are going to win or come close are a tiny percentage of those participating and I remember last year there were many optimists who had down a completed ride time similar to how long they took to get here.

This is the first year where there seems to be no competition up front, and the pace seems slower?

Certainly by the time they get to me most people are more focused on can I finish, not the technicalities of the odd kit kat.

I remember one lady who was a fast rider but did not like being alone at night so would slow down hoping someone would catch her up. There were another group that came in who had no intent of following each other, they just happened to be comfortable going at a pace, I do not think it was for physical advantage, more for psychological advantage. Others seem much more happy riding solo.

My impression is that most see it as a semi organised ride, a personal test, not a race.

[ComoDepot]

I will acknowledge that I broke the rules twice (that I recall!) during my three attempts. Once when a rider ran out of water and was dangerously dehydrated (he was wobbling while trying to ride). The second when a rider was bonking in the wilderness and I gave them an energy bar. In both instances I would rather have left them to their own devices, but felt it was dangerous as it was a very long way until they could self-supply. Personal safety trumps purism, even in my books.

There seems to be no rule preventing you providing sustenance, which is logical, if you accept then you are in breach.

[THE LONG RANGER]

Personal safety trumps purism, even in my books.

Agreed.

[mtbcast]

The issue to me is that even if you craft a set of rules that allow for assisting others in dire need (something I could agree with) you will have those who will come to the race as a pair or team and share (clearly in breach even with such an exception). The problem is that some people are going to breach out of little concern for the rules but you are also going to have breaches that are practically out of necessity. The latter will be exceptions to the rule, pardon the pun.

In the end it's personal integrity and how seriously you take the race and it's rules. I've personally heard people say, "Well, it's not sanctioned." Well, it should be sanctioned by your integrity and your willingness to line up and go. Otherwise you're touring.

[mikepro]

MTBCast gem from Big Dave Wilson: "This event/race is not for the faint of taint."  Classic.

[Kattamah]

Question: if a rider has trouble on the route, and goes off route, but goes back to the point of departure from the route, but did go forward... Are they disqualified? My understanding was always, if you leave the route, but go back to the point it was left, the rider would not be breaking race rules. Is this incorrect? I, myself, have never heard "no forward travel allowed", before. However on hearing that call in from Max Morris, I'm a bit concerned for the two guys I'm following. As they did travel forward, however they also traveled back to the point the trail was left and lost nearly two days doing so. I know they are attempting to stick to every rule this race has applied to it. So if there is a no forward travel rule in place, it's the first time I've heard of it. If max is referencing something else entirely, that's cool, he's talking about something else. But can someone give me a little clarification, please? Cause the pit of my stomach has totally dropped on hearing that call. I've even been sticking to the "rules" of not telling the guys what's ahead of them and letting them fend for themselves. Which has been really hard to stick to, as I'm worried for my guys out there peddling their little limbs off. If someone in the know could be kind enough to let me know... Thank you in advance.