Tour Divide race discussion

[mtbcast]

TD14: Kent McDonald called in from Pinos Altos, just above Silver City. He and Sarah Caylor just had dinner, coffee, and ice cream before making the push to the border!

http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/td14/

[mtbcast]

TD14: Eric Sime called in from Salida. his Spot is broken so he’ll be calling in more.

http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/td14/

[Mathewsen]

I have a theory about why folks are turning around above Silver City.  The CDT was closed due to the Signal Peak fire.  There is a "Road Closed" sign up there, about where Paul Barsom and some others have turned around.  I took a photo of the sign after I traversed it going south to north back on 14 June.   Just thinking that some people are paying attention to it and then taking NM 35 and then NM 15, and others are just ignoring it and forging on.

Your theory is correct. I was unaware the north end of the Sapillo CDT section was signed as 'closed' until Lorenzo Serra passed through and sent me pics. At this time I immediately emailed and / or texted everyone approaching, but was unable to get to some riders (apparently). It's unfortunate. We have implicit permission to pass through this segment from the Gila Ranger district (they are following the live tracker closely), and our understanding is this segment of the CDT is NOT officially closed. It's the next section of CDT south of the Sapillo + FR149 (meadow creek rd) that are closed. Deviation from the Sapillo is not a relegateable offense, and it's undecided if any adjustment will be made to the times of those riders who deviate. This is just another example of the challenge / stress involved with managing remotely a bunch of emotionally charged riders on a 3000-mi course  

[Enzo149]

NM. ML posted while I was typing and covered what I had to say.

Good luck to TDR riders! This section of the CDT is a blast to ride.

Lorenzo

[Mathewsen]

HUGE props to Alice for her 22day finish as a rookie on a singlespeed!  Wow!  And top of the podium finish on the women's side, as well. Wow, just wow.  Way to go, girl!

Yes, very impressive ride for Alice. Women's Singlespeed record too, in year when at least the northern half wasn't very conducive to standing in the pedals.

[mtbcast]

TD14 Day 23 and TABR14 Day 29 True Up! John and Jason weather a sprinkler attack, Kent and Sarah prepare for the final push, and we true up your calls!

http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/podcasts/

[Mathewsen]

If you go back to the trail kiosk and read the closure letter. It shows that the CDT is open from the campground trail head to FR89 where the TDR turns off and closed from FR89 on. I spoke to ML on this section and the TDR has approval to pass. I rode this section and found it to be one the best pieces of single track on the TDR.

Thanks LS, for calling the closure signs to my attention. I was shocked. If only riders had their wits about them to notice the letter. I take responsibility for not knowing it was signed. I tried to keep all my conversations with Gila Fire as brief as possible. They basically said, no, you may not have your permission in writing, and it can be revoked at any time for landslide risks from monsoons

In fact, I am waiting to hear from Paul Barsom about his retreat from the trail after a mile or so into it. It's possible that the monsoons have caused a slide and Gila Fire has detoured him.

[MikeI]

Thanks LS, for calling the closure signs to my attention. I was shocked. If only riders had their wits about them to notice the letter. I take responsibility for not knowing it was signed. I tried to keep all my conversations with Gila Fire as brief as possible. They basically said, no, you may not have your permission in writing, and it can be revoked at any time for landslide risks from monsoons

In fact, I am waiting to hear from Paul Barsom about his retreat from the trail after a mile or so into it. It's possible that the monsoons have caused a slide and Gila Fire has detoured him.

And my apologies for not getting that picture to you sooner....   I completely forgot about that sign and the fact that I actually had a picture of it !  As I remember, the closure sign in the picture, is up and away from the campground.  Someone earlier had mentioned the Roberts fire, and when I saw Katie and Sam detour, I had just assumed that was the case.     

[Mathewsen]

And my apologies for not getting that picture to you sooner....   I completely forgot about that sign and the fact that I actually had a picture of it !  As I remember, the closure sign in the picture, is up and away from the campground.  Someone earlier had mentioned the Roberts fire, and when I saw Katie and Sam detour, I had just assumed that was the case.      

No worries, Mike. It just illustrates how difficult it is to manage perfectly a 3000-mile unsupported race route. I would LOVE to be out there on course riding a lead moto fixing all these hiccups, sipping Colorado Whiskey by campfire light each night, texting from a sat phone, but alas, I was forced into retirement from the Divide by my kids, Branch & Alma (and their CEO mother), so if I am able to be out on course, it's rare enough I think I'm going to race myself ;-)

[Mathewsen]

I think I better weigh in on the orange dots. They are a bit of an experiment for Trackleaders in detecting / documenting off-route non-compliance mid-race, and possibly depicting (unofficially) more accurate 'virtual' race leadership. Tour de France wouldn't allow DQ'd riders to continue, but TD is 1-stage / non-stop, web-administered challenge, and has a safety element of it's participants to consider, plus we want to encourage all riders to finish the route whether within the rules or not. The live tracking map helps families stay rallied behind their rider.

We have rec'd a fair amount of feedback regarding the higher-than-normal frequency of off-route riding this year (i.e. skipping key sections), suggesting it's been difficult for viewership to follow who still has skin in the game when +/- 30% of the field defaulted on the route. The orange dots are one possible solution, and make it easy to scan the field without concern for already defaulted dots in stray areas. Again, this coloring is unofficial, because, relegations still aren't adjudicated until after riders finish, but color-coding is a test of how it might work to do it differently (en vivo).

Preliminarily, I can say we've gotten some positive feedback, and some pretty strong hate mail. The negative responses remind me why we wait till post-race to notify challengers of serious non-compliance. Those haven't been so merit-based and are highly emotionally charged remarks, such as, "How dare you DQ *any riders* after 1800mi of racing?"

Well...hmm... Is it too soul-crushing to notify a rider mid-race they have defaulted on the prescribed route (begs to question, "how do they not know already?"), and, does attachment to an official finish grow stronger the closer to AW, or what? One sentiment I've heard a few times b/f is, "I would never have wasted my time finishing the race if I knew I was not going to be considered an official finisher". Well, I realize it's racing and all, but that's just a bit short-sighted, IMHO.

[Mathewsen]

Do people get disqualified for NOT doing a fire detour, or another road detour like a construction detour, when the regular route is closed? (Not that I'm thinking that's what's going on near Silver City. I just wondered.)

It would be hard to DQ for blowing a closure unless it was manned. It would be hard to prove the real conditions on the ground unless they could be well-documented by closely proximal / distal riders. I think those who have gone around the Sapillo didn't get the memo, and are just trying to be good citizens.

[Krampus Snail]

I like the orange dots, provided they're based on persuasive evidence. I say, how can you *not* DQ someone who skips key sections of the course, even after 1800mi That's would be unfair to the riders who, in face of temptation, DIDN'T skip those sections.

[Mathewsen]

I like the orange dots, provided they're based on persuasive evidence. I say, how can you *not* DQ someone who skips key sections of the course, even after 1800mi That's would be unfair to the riders who, in face of temptation, DIDN'T skip those sections.

One minor worry might be, if DQ is imminent, does a rider conduct him / herself differently / with further disregard for rules for balance of ride? I suppose at that point the rider ceases to be TD's concern, but we do want to set the best possible example... right?

[Done]

Seems that a lot of people can't handle failure, so they cut corners, whine, and demand recognition equal to those who truly put everything on the line. We can choose to either pander to that sentiment, or to recognize that not everyone is above average and deserving of a participatory blue ribbon. Failure isn't a terrible thing, but denying it is.

[JF-mtnbiker]

Seems that a lot of people can't handle failure, so they cut corners, whine, and demand recognition equal to those who truly put everything on the line. We can choose to either pander to that sentiment, or to recognize that not everyone is above average and deserving of a participatory blue ribbon. Failure isn't a terrible thing, but denying it is.

Where is that "Like" button?

[Kattamah]

My understanding of a winner is one who has failed repeatedly, but didn't give up. So, Failure isn't so bad. Dust your knees off and give it another go. Life doth move forward!

[Kattamah]

Where is that "Like" button?

Hah hah, this I like!

[kiwidave]

Sarah Caylor and Kent McDonald rode through the night for a 05:45 finish this morning. Well done and great effort at the end to knock it off in one haul to get to A.W. in under 23 days.

[Done]

My understanding of a winner is one who has failed repeatedly, but didn't give up. So, Failure isn't so bad. Dust your knees off and give it another go. Life doth move forward!

Nice!

[kiwidave]

Hi I am Tim highway wife and I would like to know why he is now an orange line, where did he deviate from the route,  dies this mean he is disqualified or what

I was looking at the new Dot colours and it is not easy to see how they were allocated. Totty - I looked at TH's track and he seemed on route other than taking an alternative before Cuba. Perhaps that was an "in case of fire only" alternative? But KT/SC/PB/KM/PP/AA all seem to have taken the same route but there dots have not changed colour, so it would seem that the route is OK. That would suggest that it was some other rule infringement.

On the other hand some of the finishers went clearly off route and their colours have not changed.

I guess this is part of an unregulated race that you have to follow the rules and trust the organisors to deal with any issues appropriately. They do have a huge collective experience of the TD Race and have the wisdom to decide what is best for the racers involved, the other racers and the TD in general.

However, Matt and Scott - great idea with the colours so us "Blue Dot Watchers" can see who is racing on even terms. I think everyone would agree that skipping a section in appalling weather gives a huge advantage (physical (effort and injuries and fatigue) / pyschological) against those racers who rode the section in the weather.