Tour Divide race discussion

[BobM]

Bet your Canadian Loonie they do (them, or the local police). They know about it (obviously) they're there; they just don't put their presence known. One great reason they don't raise a fuss is that it's a positive impact on the town, and nothing weird goes on at the start. You gotta keep it cool - if you don't it threatens the race. I think that may be the more dangerous part of ignoring some of the rules in the race. Like it or not, if you're in the race, especially in the Grand Départ, you're seen as part of a whole, and not an individual. Compote yourself professionally - it's a gentlemen's (and women's and person's) race, after all. 

A fee to race the race doesn't first make sense, and isn't possible in an administrative or logistical way.

Exactly.  200 people showing up during the shoulder season - sober, spending money, behaving themselves, and clearing the trail in an hour or so on a Friday morning may be against the letter of the regulations, but it is not a problem.  Let a few get loud, rowdy, or obnoxious and you might just see some Parks people at the trailhead.

[THE LONG RANGER]

And Banff is blessed with the #1 fan of the Tour Divide, let us not forget.


Erm, I also don't want to have people think I in any way am passively accusing any anonymous parties that how they've acted while in Banff is in any way disrespectful to the town or the race. What I've seen personally in my Tours has been nothing but a damn-good bunch of crazy fools, off on a bike ride, whose memories will outlast the very mountains themselves.

So keep on, keeping on! Just watch out for the cues, they can be tricky - it's part of racin'! I've found myself missing a cue or twelve; the feeling of having to backtrack miles is a terrible, sinking one but it dissolves away, just like any other negative feeling while racing. It's part of the experience and another thing to test your meddle and overcome. Just another imaginative barrier in your way.

[mtbcast]

TD14: Charlie Kharsa called in with a dog warning from the route south of Cuba! The call breaks up a little.

http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/td14/

[Donald]

I think many people are missing the point about a proposed $250 fee for using Trackleaders. It is not a new concept and therefore does not change the nature of the race. There is already a fee. I can't remember what I paid in previous years ($25?) but it is not enough. Monitoring the route compliance of 100+ riders daily for a month, corresponding with riders, checking on fire detours, publishing start lists, general classifications and many other activities that only Matt Lee knows about take up a lot of time and we cannot expect him, or anyone else, to do it on a voluntary basis.

[THE LONG RANGER]

It's kind of a weird idea, to say what a company should charge for a service, and put a price that's 10x what it's historically have been. You're also describing a fee charged to Trackleaders for work the organizers aren't saying they're doing for the current fee. (Current fee is to Track your SPOT, right?)

Trackleaders is not the Tour Divide as well - both can be, without the other. Even presently, you don't need to sign up for Trackleaders to race the Tour Divide, either in the Grand Départ, or as an ITT. That's a really important point. We do it for a variety of reasons, one big one is that it's a hoot! And leads to a richness, especially if you're not even racing

If ML wants to charge to do his thing, that's totally his call, but I don't think we're getting away from all the prickly points at what that entails. If ML wants to call it quits, the Tour Divide challenge is still there. It may evolve, but it's not like we all can't ride our bikes on a course that's put together by yet another organization, and try to do it, at our very best.

[THE LONG RANGER]

...and not that there can't be pressure from the tribe to place money towards something, but again historically, it's been for the non-profit in charge of the maintenance of the trail (Colorado/Arizona Trail Foundation, Adventure Cycling)

I'm not personally a professional cyclist, nor will I ever be. The beauty of the Tour Divide is that it's an amateur pursuit. ("amateur" means, "For the love of it").

[InYerBlood]

There really are only 2 rules:

1 - follow the course as described on the TD website.  A GPS file is provided free of charge.

2 - do it all yourself, using commercial businesses only.

All the rest of the "rules" are just clarifications and guidance brought about by folks wanting to know how much wiggle room they can use and still be in the Tour Divide, i.e. you can accept outside shelter like a barn or garage, but not indoor rooms; you can accept water but not food.  For those who want to know whether a guy selling tortillas out of his car is "legal", the answer is "What do you want your race experience to be?"

This reminds me of a Mark Twain quote:

"Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing wrong with this, except that it ain't so."

I have followed this (these) discussion(s) for a couple of years with no motive except a desire to understand, and have not seen a single instance where anyone, no matter how adamant about following the rules, has not, at some point, fallen back upon the reality of the need for interpretation.

Deviation from the assigned route is one thing, but otherwise, who should be culled from the race, is no more glaringly obvious than the infraction that their guilty of. And if there's one thing I have not seen in these discussions, it's a willingness to throw the first stone, and I don't doubt for a moment why that is. On the other hand, if the way you really feel is really that obvious to you, then don't just roll your eyes, or tsk, tsk, tsk, DQ them. Every rider, every instance, as soon as it comes to light. You will either stop the loose interpretations, or more likely, the public accounting of them. And the reason why I don't foresee this happening is the same reason that the problem exists in the first place - human nature.

[mtbcast]

Jill Hueckman was denied entry into Canada. Per her FB page: "As I returned to the Us in tears the agent told me they had to help out some Americans on the divide ride- he did not say the race-earlier last month and that may have been the case....devastated right now as i have no criminal record, have made it across the us solo on my bike without needing rescue and really was blindsided with this...."

"pay for rescue in the event I was hurt in the backcountry"  This is odd because, at least for Fernie, they explicitly noted that they do no charge for rescue. She's going to try again tomorrow.

[FoldsInHalf]

Jill Hueckman was denied entry into Canada. Per her FB page: "As I returned to the Us in tears the agent told me they had to help out some Americans on the divide ride- he did not say the race-earlier last month and that may have been the case....devastated right now as i have no criminal record, have made it across the us solo on my bike without needing rescue and really was blindsided with this...."

"pay for rescue in the event I was hurt in the backcountry"  This is odd because, at least for Fernie, they explicitly noted that they do no charge for rescue. She's going to try again tomorrow.

Did anyone else's head just explode?!?  What an appalling development.   

She's on the cusp of becoming the first woman to complete the triple crown (with just the, er, minor detail of CTR remaining of course) but gets turned around by some damn bureaucrat???

Of all the incredible obstacles of this event, surely this should not be one of them.  Hopefully somebody will come to their senses by tomorrow and let her pass.  Otherwise... bikepacker boycott!  That'll show em.  Go JH!

[mtbcast]

She might actually be better to cross late at night.

[sheilar]

She might actually be better to cross late at night.

+1

[FoldsInHalf]

She might actually be better to cross late at night.

I was wondering if they had a fence... 

The other interesting thing here is that the (now orange) DW dot appeared to cross the border successfully at roughly the same hour as JH got turned around today.  After crossing, that DW dot has proceeded northbound well off the TD route.  Maybe he promised he'd stick to pavement and thereby reassured them he wouldn't need a rescue?  Crazy stuff.

[InYerBlood]

Wow. What a nightmare for Jill.

[DaveH]

To keep things on track...

Trackleaders is a business. For a fee you have either a rental or personal SPOT device tracked on a particular event map. That's it.

Race "administration" is a labor of love, in this case it's all on Matthew's head. It's easy to think that because Matthew is a Trackleaders co-partner that money exchanged is somehow involved in race admin, but it is not. Everything he does for TD he does in his spare time, for free.

There are big hurdles to charging fees for self-supported events, namely, the event must be permitted and insured. TNGA has managed to pull it together. For TD, how many different land agencies does the route pass through? Countries?

It's hard to imagine there ever being a fee for TD.

And yes foldsinhalf, my head did just explode reading that. Go Jill! Fingers crossed.

[mtbcast]

Jill mentions later in her FB thread that the first lady seemed prepared to let her pass through but another person stepped in. So hopefully a shift-change will bring better results.

[MikeI]

Go Jill !!!   Try the night shift and good luck !

[InYerBlood]

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

There is no way Jill is leaving that border except northbound.

[Donald]

To keep things on track...

Trackleaders is a business. For a fee you have either a rental or personal SPOT device tracked on a particular event map. That's it.

Race "administration" is a labor of love, in this case it's all on Matthew's head. It's easy to think that because Matthew is a Trackleaders co-partner that money exchanged is somehow involved in race admin, but it is not. Everything he does for TD he does in his spare time, for free.

There are big hurdles to charging fees for self-supported events, namely, the event must be permitted and insured. TNGA has managed to pull it together. For TD, how many different land agencies does the route pass through? Countries?

It's hard to imagine there ever being a fee for TD.

And yes foldsinhalf, my head did just explode reading that. Go Jill! Fingers crossed.

With respect, what you are saying is not quite true.

Trackleaders does much more than track SPOT devices. It establishes the order of the race and identifies riders who have deviated from the route. In the past few years it has been the only place to find a reliable starting list and a general classification.

Raising the fee for the Trackleaders service does not introduce an entry fee for the race with all its attendant complications. It's about paying a realistic fee for the services we all want. You can still enter the race without registering with Trackleaders if you don't want to pay for the service.

[InYerBlood]

4:30am : Jill's in, and on course!!! 

[BobM]

Someone recently said that "this great race suffers from a deficit in administration..."

which is a bit of a slap at Matthew, who quietly keeps things going and handles an awful lot of issues that do not get broadcast.