Tour Divide race discussion

[Montana Miller]

Someone recently said that "this great race suffers from a deficit in administration..."

I'm a little new to this, but isn't that part of the point? There are plenty of other races out there with heavy organization and high fees.

I was really surprised when I got out there, and started hearing from Matthew at all- I received texts telling me when it was time to replace batteries in my Spot Trace, and one telling me that the Sapillo Alternate was actually open. It was nice, but despite paying a trackleaders registration, I wasn't expecting any of that. 

And results- who cares? Is that really the reason some people line up? The results that matter (if any do) are already easy to find- Jeffe and Alice won, Dan was first single speed.

Sure, I'll remember that I was 9th overall and 2nd SS, and maybe my mom and my girlfriend care, but beyond that I realize that the rest of the world (even the rest of the endurance mountain bike community) probably doesn't give a crap.

I think the leaderboard on trackleaders is enough as far as published results go.

This is a great event, but it's in a really grey area. I think that the more "administered" it becomes, the closer it's going to get to being shut down- especially when riders end up needing help, get hypothermic, and so on.

[DaveH]

Raising the fee for the Trackleaders service does not introduce an entry fee for the race with all its attendant complications. It's about paying a realistic fee for the services we all want. You can still enter the race without registering with Trackleaders if you don't want to pay for the service.

The implication here is the notion of TL bumping tracking prices to compensate race promoters. This is the reason I joined this conversation - to dispel the idea that TL and TD are somehow one and the same. They are not. One is a business, the other a passion project.

[Donald]

which is a bit of a slap at Matthew, who quietly keeps things going and handles an awful lot of issues that do not get broadcast.

Actually, it was Matthew himself who said he was falling behind on the administration. The real slap at Matthew is to expect him, a man with family responsibilities, to do all this work for nothing.

[BobM]

I'm going to take a wild guess that Matthew does not want to be paid to handle all the hassles - he wants people to stop creating hassles.  If you break the rules, call yourself on it and be done with it.  Many riders did that this year and that's great!  "I screwed up and now I'm touring."  If you inadvertantly break a rule and Matthew talks to you about it, do not lie or rationalize.  If you are faced with a situation and you wonder whether what you are going to do is "legal". err on the side of caution and don't do it.

This sort of self-regulating behavior would be a lot more valuable to Matthew than almost any amount of money, IMO.

[Donald]

The implication here is the notion of TL bumping tracking prices to compensate race promoters. This is the reason I joined this conversation - to dispel the idea that TL and TD are somehow one and the same. They are not. One is a business, the other a passion project.

The moment you have record times on the map and orange dots, you can't deny that TL and TD are one and the same.

[MikeI]

Just to chime in, this is a great event, just the way it is.  

The way Trackleaders, this board, TD and MTBcast come together is amazing and fun. Its great from the participant side and, as a "blue dot stalker".   I don't think I would change a thing.

Kudos to Matthew, Scott and Joe for your passion.

And GO Jill !  She's rolling in Canada now !

[dp]

Ken Waring just finished after an all-nighter.  Nice pull Ken!

-dp

[DaveH]

The moment you have record times on the map and orange dots, you can't deny that TL and TD are one and the same.

That's an interesting opinion and I can see where it may appear that way. In reality record times and orange dots are merely visual representations of historical data, things that TL calculates as a SPOT dot moves across a map.

Necessity is the mother of all invention. A few years ago I added fire detours, snow cover layers, radar and a few other things to the TD map for bluedot. Since bluedot is my own passion project (I did it for fun), I decided to stop doing all those extras...but since then TL has incorporated them and so much more. The race flow idea came from a CTR spreadsheet. So, every time an event occurs on TL, more data is acquired, and more ideas born as to user's needs. It's an evolving process, like any good software. And, every future event's tracking benefits from the process of it's predecessors.

All that said, the tracking of an event is not the same as race administration. TL does the former, the latter is up to the organizer/promoter. For a clear example, consider the Baja 1000. Biggest enduro moto race in North America. TL did the tracking this year. Does that make TL the "administrator" of the Baja 1000?

[mtbcast]

TD14: Overnight/Morning - John Fairbairn called in from Abiquiu on his birthday! He was battling a headache and a couple of dogs! Sheila Torres-Blank called in from Cuba! She finally saw a grizzly bear! Jason Snell called in from Abiquiu! He saw a rattlesnake and an Abert’s Squirrel and the Sylvia’s snack shack! Bill Peschka called in from Grants. And Charlie Kharsa called in from Grants! The wait staff at the restaurant he stopped at didn’t know what to think but were cool once they knew what he was doing!

http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/calls/

[JeffOYB]

I recall suggestion that all "non current race action" discussion go to another thread.

Yeah, it happens every year, but really all discussion of race concept, rules, admin, belong elsewhere.

Really, NOBODY wants to see a SINGLE post in THIS thread about anything except racers on the course. So, c'mon!

I have no interest in TD admin (other than to say "YAY MATT! THANKS!") so I don't know if there is such a thread. Anyone who IS interested can start it if it hasn't been.

Posts and comments about JILL AND HER RECENT BORDER-CROSSING INCIDENT do not deserve to be buried! They are NOT "add on's" in this thread. They are the HEART of it!

Please, stop hijacking this thread. No more off-topic posts. The race-under-way is on topic.

So, let's hear it for our racers!  

[woody]

I recall suggestion that all "non current race action" discussion go to another thread.

Yeah, it happens every year, but really all discussion of race concept, rules, admin, belong elsewhere.

Really, NOBODY wants to see a SINGLE post in THIS thread about anything except racers on the course. So, c'mon!

I have no interest in TD admin (other than to say "YAY MATT! THANKS!") so I don't know if there is such a thread. Anyone who IS interested can start it if it hasn't been.

Posts and comments about JILL AND HER RECENT BORDER-CROSSING INCIDENT do not deserve to be buried! They are NOT "add on's" in this thread. They are the HEART of it!

Please, stop hijacking this thread. No more off-topic posts. The race-under-way is on topic.

So, let's hear it for our racers! 

+1 man.
There are still several people out there giving their heart and soul each and everyday.

[Done]

I'm going to take a wild guess that Matthew does not want to be paid to handle all the hassles - he wants people to stop creating hassles.  If you break the rules, call yourself on it and be done with it.  Many riders did that this year and that's great!  "I screwed up and now I'm touring."  If you inadvertantly break a rule and Matthew talks to you about it, do not lie or rationalize.  If you are faced with a situation and you wonder whether what you are going to do is "legal". err on the side of caution and don't do it.

This sort of self-regulating behavior would be a lot more valuable to Matthew than almost any amount of money, IMO.

No truer words have been posted about the whole endless rules debate. Thanks!

[Done]

Really, NOBODY wants to see a SINGLE post in THIS thread about anything except racers on the course. So, c'mon!

Considering that the discussion was actually started by several racers, and perpetuated by former racers and soon-to-be-racers, it would seem that MANY PEOPLE want to see LOTS of post in THIS thread.

But I agree that it's important not to forget the racers who are still out there and going hard. I'm really enjoying watching Mark C. close in on the finish. The guy isn't terribly fast, but he really personifies tenacity, grit, and determination. There aren't many guys who have finished as many of these races as he has. GO MARK!

[robinb]

Good to see Jill got across the boarder... A humbling reminder that coming into another country is a privilege not a right... They don't have to let you in if they don't want to...

[Done]

Good to see Jill got across the boarder... A humbling reminder that coming into another country is a privilege not a right... They don't have to let you in if they don't want to...

Yep. But as a Canadian, I hope that the government figures out that cyclists are the RIGHT people to let into the country!

[InYerBlood]

Is there any info out there (other than SPOT data) on Laura Hamm's current situation?

[mtbcast]

#TD14: Eric Sime called in from Del Norte! Michael Docherty called in leaving Gunnison and heading back on route! Andy Amick called in with his finish call!

http://mtbcast.com/site2/category/td14/

Andy self-relegated himself due to meeting his family in Breckenridge.

[BobM]

Yep. But as a Canadian, I hope that the government figures out that cyclists are the RIGHT people to let into the country!

Odd ruling by that one border officer.  If an American has an automobile accident in Canada and requires emergency services, are they going to turn back all automobile traffic from the border?  Seems like some bike discrimination going on!

[Done]

Odd ruling by that one border officer.  If an American has an automobile accident in Canada and requires emergency services, are they going to turn back all automobile traffic from the border?  Seems like some bike discrimination going on!

Yeah, I'm dumbfounded. Sounds like she had the bad luck of encountering a complete idiot.

[Christopher R. Bennett]

Yeah, I'm dumbfounded. Sounds like she had the bad luck of encountering a complete idiot.

Can happen both ways. Last year when entering the US Nathan and Peter from NZ had to actually fill out papers when they crossed. Took 30 minutes. I fortunately have both NZ and CDN citizenship so came through as a Canadian.  Other times the border guards have been really supportive, following us on Trackleaders and more than once helping out someone who arrived at night very cold. We are all human and have good and bad days.