Tour Divide/GDMBR - tires

[Calshot]

Hi all,

Thinking about attempting the GDMBR next year, probably as an ITT (sadly, wont be able to do it this year). I've read most of the rider reports and posts on this forum, but have some questions for veterans on tire choices:

1) Mud seems to be the most common 'issue' on the GDMBR, leading to wrecked drivetrains and tire sidewall failures, I believe? If so, why don't riders use dedicated mud tires, or tires with wide-spaced tread? Is this because there are so few mud tires available for 29ers?

2) Nano Raptor 29er's have clearly been THE choice of tire for Tour Divide riders in recent years. Any comments on sidewall durability? Any comments on puncture resistance/air loss when set up tubeless? I hear that 'new' Nanos are not as durable as 'old' Nanos - not sure if WTB have changed the design, but any opinions on use welcome.

I'd be interested to know thoughts and opinions. It seems that you can't avoid mud on the GDMBR, even as far into the route as New Mexico, so my idea would be to use mud tires and not worry about the rolling resistance on the pavement.

Thanks....

[sluttyduck]

crossmarks

[Calshot]

Thanks. I've heard of Crossmarks being used in the Tour Divide before (Aidan Harding in 2010, I think?). But I thought they were a dry condition tire, almost like the Nanos in that respect. How did they cope with the mud - really well or just 'better' than other dry condition tires?

[elobeck]

I am curious about TD tires as well. The Nano has been the gold standard, and I started with them last year, and they could not go the distance for me. (175 lb rider) The tread wore out really quickly and I had to replace them in Steamboat. I think Plesko rode them start to finish and others likely have as well. The sidewalls are somewhat thin. I would love to find the magic bullet, and I am curious about the cross mark. The weight appears to be similar. How are the sidewalls? How do they roll compared to the Nano's? In Europe Conti sells a race King 2.0, which seems like it could fit the bill. I rode a 2.2 last year from steamboat-super durable, but comes with about 200 g weigh penalty over the nanos. I believe Aidan slashed the sidewall on his crossmark on day1?

Hmmmmm. Maybe start with slightly worn contis?

Hope more people chime in on tires.

[ClimberBoy]

I just bought a set of the new Slant Six from Kenda in 2.0. Will let you know how they go...

[Marshal]

There is no tire made that will keep you from ‘walking’ on the TDR when the mud is truly an issue—so it’s sort of silly imo to choose a TDR tire because of it’s mud shedding characteristics.

For the long smooth TDR, rolling resistance is the most important factor bar none—I think this should be the #1 factor (unless you are on a SS—then rear tire grip is also critical for the rear)

After rolling resistance I would say volume is the next most important factor—I suppose if you ride a FS rig you might get by with less volume but for the typical TDR bike a bit of tire ‘cushion’ is not to be discounted

Durability is third—not saying it’s not important but most mtb tires are sturdy enough—but hey, sidewall cuts can happen—so either be prepared to boot or carry a thin/light spare to get you on down the route

Actually a good rolling tire is so much more important that ANY other factor, (rear SS not withstanding) I would sort all the possible TDR tires using this criteria 1st and then just focus on what’s left

[Mathewsen]

WTB Nano Raptor has won 7 out of 9 editions of Divide racing, and been runner-up in many of those years too...if that might be considered an endorsement.

[Calshot]

Thanks all - interesting responses about the importance/not on mud and endorsements on the Nanos. I suppose some of my original questioning was because the choice of 29er tire is now far greater than it was a few years ago - so with a greater tire choice, are there now viable alternatives to the now-quite-historic-but-still-awesome Nanos that could be both fast rolling and better mud shedders? I take the point about rolling resistance - it seems (if I understand this right) that GDMBR mud is bad enough to stop any tire, so rolling resistance becomes more important to make up time and reduce fatigue after you get through the hike-a-bike sections.

I'll keep the Nanos in mind - but also interested to see how many riders will use alternatives this year: Maxxis Ikons look like a possibility for TD, for example.

Thanks for the answers so far.

[6thElement]

I'd imagine nothing is going to shed the clay like mud and as those above have attested rolling resistance is the bigger concern. You don't need the heavier bigger knobs like you'd have on a DH mud tyre because you're just riding on the road, not winding downhill cornering at speed.

[sigma7]

I'll probably use the field proven Schwalbe Marathon Extreme (26x2.25); they didn't fail in Iceland last summer.

A question to the guys from US: I believe Stans is the brand which is most likely to be found in the bike shops, right? If so, I'll switch to Stans before TD to avoid issues when the fluids are mixed in the case a re-fill is required.


-- sigma7

[Slowerthensnot]

stans or slime is what you well find at most shops along the route...

tire toss up for me is between the Nano, Conti race king, geax AKA

[annoying crack]

from tires to tubes...
Are slime tubes a good alternative to a tubeless setup? I'm totally not familiar with tubeless and I'm not sure now is the moment to start experimenting. anyone has any experiences with Slime tubes? Can Stan's fluid be added to tubes instead of going tubeless? I'm running Presta valves because that's what we are running here. 

thanks.

[Jilleo]

I used the 29" Nano Raptor/Slime Tube set-up in the 2009 Tour Divide. I only used one set of tires and tubes for 2,700 miles — never once did I get a flat that required a tube change, although the tire rubber was precariously thin by the end. I only had three or four instances, all in New Mexico, when I ran over something sharp and all of the air leaked out of one of the tires. However, the Slime Tubes always sealed and all I had to do was pump air back into them. For spares, I carried regular tubes. You can always purchase new slime tubes in bike shops along the way. They are heavy, and can't be refilled.

I've had more flats and other issues with my tubeless/Stans set-up on my Rocky Mountain Element in considerably less miles, but then again on that bike I've been using some kind of wimpy 26" Huthchinson race tires, and have typically ridden it in rougher terrain than the average GDMBR mile.

[annoying crack]

I used the 29" Nano Raptor/Slime Tube set-up in the 2009 Tour Divide. I only used one set of tires and tubes for 2,700 miles — never once did I get a flat that required a tube change, although the tire rubber was precariously thin by the end. I only had three or four instances, all in New Mexico, when I ran over something sharp and all of the air leaked out of one of the tires. However, the Slime Tubes always sealed and all I had to do was pump air back into them. For spares, I carried regular tubes. You can always purchase new slime tubes in bike shops along the way. They are heavy, and can't be refilled.

I've had more flats and other issues with my tubeless/Stans set-up on my Rocky Mountain Element in considerably less miles, but then again on that bike I've been using some kind of wimpy 26" Huthchinson race tires, and have typically ridden it in rougher terrain than the average GDMBR mile.

That's exactly what I wanted to hear! 
thank you for the response.

[JF-mtnbiker]

I ran Nano's last year. I had a few flats along the way but my front Nano went tubeless all-the-way to AW by adding additional Stans along the way when I had a puncture. I had to replace the rear with a Hutchinson in Butte after spewing Stans 10 miles south of town. Since the next place on route to buy a 29er tire was Steamboat, I returned back to Butte instead of praying 1 more tube and a boot would hold up for 6-ish days. It was worth the peace of mind since I have experienced grit working it's way into a tire gash and flatting a tube in the past. I had no "major" flats from the Hutchinson until about 15 miles from the finish at AW where Stans spewed out all over me. By the way, I talked with Dale from AZ Hardware in Pinedale (bike shop) about joining the 29er age. He should have some quality tires and spokes now.

One thing to learn from my flats...
-Every flat I had was on pavement going in and out of towns and on the last pave section to AW. 
-If you go tubeless, make sure you know how to add more sealant, how to switch over to tubes and back to tubeless again. (carry an extra valve stem for "your" wheelset)
-Take a pump that actually works. Those little super light toys don't cut it.
-Personally, I would take the correct size tube for a spare. If weight is that big of a deal, take it off your body. You are in the middle of nowhere most of the time.

I have bad luck with Nano's while riding everyday singletrack around home in WY. Flat alot! I talked to WTB at the Vegas show last fall and the said they were going to upgrade the Nano's sidewalls for better durability. Don't know if they really did it... The Hutchinson 29er and Conti have been more durable on singletrack and everyday riding but they lack the speed of the Nano which is a key component of a Tour Divide tire.
 

[EMathy]

My plan is Nano 29'ers run tubeless with Stans rims and sealant. I've been training with tubes but will be doing the conversion over in the next week or two. Chris Plesko's endorsement won me over to the WTB's.

[wookieone]

Curious if anyone's using the New Nanos, the non-raptor ones, Kurt reported they were weak from the AZT last year. I am nervious about usinf such a minamalist tire, seems almost any fast-ish tire would be nano fast after 300 miles or so. I am thinking geax saguaros, pretty fast and had good luck on singletrack with them....but who knows Jefe

[krefs]

Yes, Jefe, the newer Nanos (starting in 2010 I believe) have slightly thinner sidewalls than the previous version. I had ridden the old ones on almost every kind of trail you get in CO/UT and not had more than a handful of flats. I put a Nano on during in Flagstaff and 150 miles later it had 5 slices in the sidewall (and only 40 miles of that was even remotely rocky), but luckily, only one was deep enough that it didn't seal up with Stans. I emailed WTB about the change after that but never received any sort of reply.

I've been riding the Michelin Wild Race'rs more than anything else in the past 2 years, and those tires are the best all-around tire out there in my opinion. Whether you go with these, Nanos, Small Blocks, Cross Marks, or one of the many other options out there, none will shed clay mud, all will seal up with 30+ goatheads in the tread if you fill them with lots of sealant, and each one will get sliced if you hit a rock or scrap of metal the wrong way (but any can be stitched and glued back together). Nanos and Small Blocks roll every so slightly faster, Wild Race'rs have a bigger, more durable casing and are nearly as fast with only a minor weight penalty. Cross Marks are more fragile in my experience, but I know others that have ridden many of them to the threads with no problems.

Also, you have to consider the ride characteristics at different tire pressures. If you run tubes, pressure will be higher, and the tire profile changes a bit and changes traction noticeably. I hate Nanos with tubes, but at lower pressure (20-25 psi) the tire is decent on most surfaces.

[wookieone]

Thanks for the info Kurt, much appreciated, been considering wild racers too, hmmm, we shall see. I mean MikeC did it on Kenda Klaws, not a very fast tire, starting out anyways. I would rather have a few extra grams, a bigger tire and less issues. Jefe

[krefs]

Note that the "Wild Race'r" tread pattern is changing considerably for 2011, though frustratingly, the name isn't changing. The new pattern is a more open, Conti Race King-like tread which doesn't look nearly as fast. The old pattern is still widely-available in the 29x2.1 size, but in the next month, the new one should start hitting stores.