Triple Crown - touring and racing

[SlowRide]

Let's see........I'm planning for the AZTR this year.  I've got a 2011 TD finish and a 2014 CTR finish under my belt, and I started each race at the grand depart.

So, I could be a Triple Crown finisher, but not a Triple Crown Challenger with all events in the same year, right?

You got it right from what I understand Norb, by completing the AZTR750 you will have completed the Triple Crown and be listed in the Triple Crown Finishers list.

[ScottM]

Yep, that's right.  Showing up for the Grand Depart only matters for the during-one-year Challenge -- to have completed the triple crown routes is a finishing (touring) standard that is much more relaxed.

Get it, Norb!

[ScottM]

Looks like there is now a winter triple crown, albeit of shorter events:

A135/Tuscobia/Actif Epica

http://orderofthehrimthurs.com/

They win for creative writing.  I need to up my game.

[Briansong]

I am a bit confused by all the parameters around legit TC's, ITT's and GD's.

How does JP have the record if he did it on a ITT? If an ITT doesn't count for a single season TC, how can an ITT be the accepted record?

I did an unsuccessful GD last year. Going to ITT in August is why I ask. I have no hope of breaking a record but just really want to understand all this. It seems inconsistent.

Steve

[mtnbound]

Briansong - ScottM is probably the best person to answer your questions and you may also get answers from the "official" TC page.  However, on the "official" Triple Crown Page (http://www.bikepacking.net/triple-crown-of-bikepacking), JP does not have the record, Kurt Sandiforth does.  From the official page:

Triple Crown Challenge Finishers

Kurt Sandiforth – 9:05:36 / 16:22:04 / 5:10:15 / Total 31:13:19 — CURRENT RECORD

[mtnbound]

Here is info from the "official" Triple Crown page on the "Triple Crown Challenge" (not to be confused with "Triple Crown Finishers"):

"The Triple Crown Challenge

The triple crown challenge was dreamed up by bikepacker David Goldberg in 2012. It is to complete the three classic dirt bikepacking events in one calendar year: The Arizona Trail 750, Tour Divide and The Colorado Trail Race. This is a huge undertaking, both in terms of total time spent pedaling and especially managing the short recovery time between the events. Kurt Sandiforth was the first to complete the challenge in 2012 and set the benchmark for the fastest time.

It is understood that all efforts should be undertaken as a part of the Grand Depart of each event. ITTs of all three are respectable (and still happily documented here), but not considered a full triple crown challenge completion."

On that same TC page, there are only 4 persons listed as the "Triple Crown Challenge Finishers" to date, though it appears several have thrown their names in to try for it in 2015 (Good luck to all TC Challengers!!!):

"Triple Crown Challenge Finishers

Kurt Sandiforth – 9:05:36 / 16:22:04 / 5:10:15 / Total 31:13:19 — CURRENT RECORD
 Forest Baker (2013) –
Eric Foster (2013) –
Mark Caminiti (2014) – "

[Briansong]

Thanks for the reply mtnbound.

I think you might have misunderstood my point, underlining the confusion. The TD record holder, not the TC record is JP (right?)

It seems counterintuitive that the record holder of the fastest TD time ever would not qualify for a TC (same year) finish.

If an ITT doesn't count for the same year TC, perhaps by the same logic the ITT shouldn't count for the TD record either?

Personally, I think an ITT should be counted, without an asterisk for the TC. All miles have been completed, all challenges met that the GD folk meet. Maybe even more based on the solitary nature of it.

Steve

[Adam Alphabet]

From what I gather part of the 'challenge' is in keeping the time line the same for everyone attempting that year. Adhering to grand departs for all three events would essentially level the playing field in this regard; the recovery time between each event and doing them in the same order, AZT, then divide, then CTR.

[ScottM]

Briansong -- that's a fair question, I can see your confusion.

To be consistent on the Ultra Records page here on bikepacking.net, you are right, an ITT finish of the triple crown should be considered valid.  ITT finishes are happily accepted as records--the idea being that it's simply the fastest traversal of those routes, whether part of a race or not.

But there is another challenge, that of completing the "Triple Crown Challenge" which could be considered a single event by itself.  That event entails showing up for all 3 grand departs and finishing them quickly.  Official finishers of that 'event' should be at the grand departs, but ITTs are still recorded and listed, just as they are in any individual event.  But if someone were to break Kurt's record as an ITT triple crown, I'd sure list that as the fastest time for those routes, on the records page.

Hope that makes sense.  Anyone disagree with that logic?

[SlowRide]

Makes sense to me and I do not disagree with the logic. 

[Briansong]

Briansong -- that's a fair question, I can see your confusion.

To be consistent on the Ultra Records page here on bikepacking.net, you are right, an ITT finish of the triple crown should be considered valid.  ITT finishes are happily accepted as records--the idea being that it's simply the fastest traversal of those routes, whether part of a race or not.

But there is another challenge, that of completing the "Triple Crown Challenge" which could be considered a single event by itself.  That event entails showing up for all 3 grand departs and finishing them quickly.  Official finishers of that 'event' should be at the grand departs, but ITTs are still recorded and listed, just as they are in any individual event.  But if someone were to break Kurt's record as an ITT triple crown, I'd sure list that as the fastest time for those routes, on the records page.

Hope that makes sense.  Anyone disagree with that logic?

Defining the TC challenge as an "all encompassing" event, yes, it makes complete sense to me as you explained.

Thanks!

Steve

[dream4est]

Well we still got four in the hunt

Jay p
Robert Orr
Aaron Denberg
Me- Mark c

It's a strong group. It might  be four triples this year !!

[ScottM]

I hear Alice Drobna is thinking about it... after her stellar run at the 750.  Dylan Taylor is also trying to make it happen, last I talked to him.

[dream4est]

Well six is better than four!
Good luck to all.

 I just figured out my TD grand depart southbound logistics so I am looking good for run at a second straight crown. I really didnt want to resort to Northbound or ITT TD. I want to keep my streak alive of 5 consecutive triple crown grand departs and finishes and i wanted to add to my 11 total triple crown finishes all grand departs.

[samh]

I was looking into this further today with all the excitement around the TD finishing up.  Dylan has told me he hopes to attain the status of Challenge finisher this year and when I went to look into it further I see the page about it is missing some info.  I can't seem to find exact results data from the TD as the official results page only goes up to 2010.  The items in bold below are from TrackLeaders and don't have an exact timestamp from the border but it's very close.  Also, please double check my math on the totals, I'm particularly good at adding up days, hours, and minutes. 

Kurt Sandiforth (2012)
   AZT   09:05:36
   TD   16:22:04
   CT   05:10:15
   Total    31:13:19

Forest Baker (2013)
   AZT   10:14:45
   TD   18:11:51
   CT   07:13:51
   Total   35:40:27

Eric Foster (2013)
   AZT   10:11:15
   TD   23:11:50
   CT   06:23:00
   Total   39:46:05

Mark Caminiti (2014)
   AZT   11:12:38
   TD   27:10:25
   CT   08:08:56
   Total   46:31:59

[Adam Alphabet]

If Dylan goes 8:04:01 on the CTR he'll be under Kurt's current total triple time. Super strong 750 and TD this year, wow, gnarly.

[samh]

If Dylan goes 8:04:01 on the CTR he'll be under Kurt's current total triple time.

His 2010 race on the CT came in at 07:07:40.  I believe he toured the route (albeit at a very fast pace) with his wife in the past few years as well so he knows the terrain well. 

[dream4est]

Nice work in the numbers game samh. That's hard data I find. I didn't even know my own times !
So for me I am at:
11:05:05 750
23:04:51 TD

Looks like if I can get another personal best in Ctr - say 7.5 days- I will have a much better Time than last year.


So to recap we still got the following alive :

Jay p
Alice Drobna
Robert Orr
Dylan Taylor
Me

I still think Aaron Denberg is going for an ITT triple- no word yet from him on any dates

I will share a neat triple crown story here. Alice was in the bike shop where I had my meltdown in Helena.
She said some things to me and gave me a hug when I was despndant and warning to quit bad.
It really helped me through a dark day in my life. Thanks Alice !

[samh]

Looks like if I can get another personal best in Ctr - say 7.5 days- I will have a much better Time than last year.

I look forward to watching your progress, Mark. 

[ScottM]

Thanks for pulling out the missing times, Sam.

Some strong, strong riding out there from those still in the triple crown hunt.  Dylan is crushing it and of course JayP will likely break Kurt's record.

Alice seems poised to be the first woman to finish the TC challenge, and also the first to do it on a singlespeed, no?

Mark - the double triple.  Yikes.

CTR should be interesting.  There's nowhere to hide if your legs or energy are flat.  Good luck, everyone.